Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!phoenix!yaz From: yaz@phoenix.oulu.fi Subject: Re: Zen And Dannyism Message-ID: <1993Jan8.235926.9204@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Followup-To: sci.skeptic Lines: 45 Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Organization: Phoenix Lab., Univesity of Oulu, Finland X-Newsagent: :: uutimet -- news-agent by yaz@phoenix.oulu.fi :: Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:59:26 GMT > Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic > From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) > > In article <93008.094835E03SI@CUNYVM.BITNET>, writes: > |> WHAT DO YOU THINK? > |> > |> "Every Everyday fact > |> of Science or Common Sense > |> is a Window > |> into the Unknown Source > |> of All Things." > |> Cyberpunk Pouggie > |> January 8th, 1993 > |> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > |> E03SI@cunyvm.cuny.edu > |> Keeper ot the Danny Pouget On-going > |> Biography archival effort. > > When I replace the terms that are undefined with variables, I get > the sentence: > > "Every X is a Y." (which might be simplified further to 'X == Y', or even > to'X') I think it states something else too. The X is a group of information, and Y is even larger group of information. The information in X is called knowledge, while the Y is unknown but existing would-be-knowledge. So, X belongs to the group of Y, but not the vice versa. > -- > Robert E. McGrath > Urbana Illinois > mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Let's use bandwight, -- Tuomas K.Kaikkonen yaz@phoenix.oulu.fi ,._/\ " % man woman " Taidonkaari 1 E 36 Tel:+358-81-5546081 `. | " woman not found " SF-90570 OULU (_/ _ __ /FI| " % wife ? " FINLAND I I-I /_ |___/ " wife: No match. " Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!status!jonc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie Message-ID: From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 09:37:44 GMT References: <1ij320INNkkn@zikzak.apana.org.au> Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand. Lines: 17 petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) writes: > Ozzie, if I'm correct, is a term used by Australians only, ie slang. Well close. Those of us in New Zealand call you Ozzies and Aussies. Ozzie comes from the slang "The land of OZ" (Aus). Aussie comes from AUStralia. Have a good arvo from Kiwiland Jon Clarke Z*NET Pacific -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= jonc@status.gen.nz GEnie: J.Clarke6 Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD Phone: (+649) 358-5589 IFNA : 3/772:105 GEM : NZM CABLES =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: HELP!!!!! Organization: AT&T Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:53:31 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan9.035331.4133@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> References: <378.2B4BF15B@mechanic.fidonet.org> Lines: 6 In article <378.2B4BF15B@mechanic.fidonet.org>, James.Porter@mechanic.fidonet.org (James Porter) writes: > Is anyone is Alt.aliens seeing this post? I dont think my USENET echos are getting outside of FLA. Anyone seeing this and not seeing a reply to it send me a message! > Dear lost in space: I saw it! Didn't look to me like a post though, more like a doughnut with hair on it and large gawking eye like protrusions. Hopef this helps. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!buffalo From: buffalo@wam.umd.edu (Duncan D. Sterling) Subject: Re: I am disappointed... Message-ID: <1993Jan9.051053.14582@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <1993Jan8.024851.883@news.unomaha.edu> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 05:10:53 GMT Lines: 32 In article <1993Jan8.024851.883@news.unomaha.edu> dementia@cwis.unomaha.edu (Diane Atkinson) writes: > >I thought I might find intelligent debate here--you know, presentations >of facts by both sides, discussions, perhaps even a little more in >the formation of explanations in the whys and hows of extraterrestrials. >Instead all I find is petty bickering, opinion and people bashing, "Gee, >look at this story--Weren't these saps dumb?" articles, and a lot of >"There's no way anything but my opinion is correct" stuff. > >I had hoped for more.... > >Diane Atkinson >dementia@cwis.unomaha.edu I agree with you completely. If there's anything A.A.V. could use, it would be a slightly more serious atmosphere than the one I've seen lately. But how to accomplish a shift into a more constructive approach? I don't think that the "noise makers" will quiet down after simply being asked to. I do think, however, that if the number of serious posts starts climbing, they could eventualy smother the garbage posts, especially if everyone can get in the habit of ignoring pointless posts. Enough factual material exists on the topics covered by A.A.V. to fuel serious, intelligent discussion and debate for a long time to come. Why don't we all try to move toward such an approach? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Duncan Sterling buffalo@wam.umd.edu GT750L, KH500A8, CA175K3 University of Maryland "Yeeehaaa!" - Slim Pickens in "Dr. Strangelove" College Park, Md. "2 strokes are quicker than 4" - anonymous Xref: icaen sci.physics:35217 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2725 sci.skeptic:36763 alt.conspiracy:21581 alt.alien.visitors:12428 alt.paranormal:6273 Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,new.age Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti From: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) Subject: Weird message - does any one know meaning? Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 05:38:21 GMT Lines: 22 I would greatly appreciate an explanation of following message if any one knows what it means? Please e-mail me with your response. Thank you. Subject: Is enclosed a threat? From uucp@mv.MV.COM Fri Jan 8 20:58:37 1993 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 23:57:39 -0500 From: uucp@mv.MV.COM (0000-uucp(0000)) Subject: Warning From uucp Apparently-To: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us Subject: Warning From uucp virgin!mail unhtel!virgin!nhstrat!rlyeh!cthulhu (Date 01/07) The job will be deleted in several days if the problem is not corrected. If you care to kill the job, execute the following command: uustat -kvirginN3725 Sincerely, mv!uucp . Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13470 alt.alien.visitors:12429 sci.skeptic:36765 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Leps and UFOs. Message-ID: <73240@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 01:09:04 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 59 1>+8 Subject: Leprechauns and UFOs. Today I went to see the movie called Leprechaun. I think that the show is pretty good if you like to be scared and like horror shows. As far as being very authenic I believe that it missed the mark by a l long shot. It seems that we always like to make fun of our friends the Leprechauns. When I first got into this work it was my good pleasure to be taken on a field trip by a very learned man. We went down the Niles Canyon Road near Fremont, Calif in an easternly direction till we nearly got to the second bridge overpass. At a place called the Golder Gate Trinity Baptist Church you will find a steel cyclone fence that surrounds the property. As you turn to the left up the road that goes to Harward (north), on the fence and upon the oak trees he said that people often see Leprechauns. Sometimes only psychic people can see them but at other times everybody can see them. They often just appear as a light. I didn't think about this much until later I took a young man up there with me who wanted to come in contact with the space people. As we were going up the road in a northern direction we stopped and he was worked on by the space people. He felt like someone was polking him with a knife and he jumped around like a person having an experiece in a certain type of church. After this all happened he was able to see the Leprechauns and we went through all sorts of experiences trying to get a picture of them, even on my shoulder. I never could see them. We used all sorts of film inclulding black and white, color and infra red to no avail. On another trip into the area he is taken over by the space people from the Pleiades and they talked through him and he tallked to us with the space people talking though him. The just said something to the effect they were the people from the Pleiades and they were here to help us. We then went over to the San Andreas Resurvoir and saw two UFOs cruising around underwater with their lights on like a couple of submarines. Everybody in our group of 4 people say that. We also saw certain areas where a lot of Leprechauns stayed around groups of trees and rocks. He was also able to see UFO places when the UFOs stayed. I later brought in another person who said the same thing of the same areas,. So I think it is a good things to know about our friends the Leprechauns and also fairies. John Winston. f 4 people say that. We also saw certain areas where a lot of Leprech8w8 B f+ Y#U% j3JJg6i9Q A : )+.0 02468:A : )+.0 0Roman 10cpill we nearly got to the second bridge overpass. At a place called the Golder Gate Trinity Baptist Church Xref: icaen sci.physics:35223 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2727 alt.conspiracy:21586 sci.skeptic:36766 alt.paranormal:6274 alt.alien.visitors:12430 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: POP! FIZZZ.... PSI WARS! Date: 9 Jan 1993 09:58:24 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1im7k0INNl54@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu In an earlier post here I referred to retired CIA official "Ray Clines" as an associate of Theodore Shackley. It has been pointed out to me via email that I am confusing two different people. Ray CLINE is the former Deputy Director/Intelligence who co-authored the book on applied mind technology with Janet Morris. Thomas CLINES is an associate of Theodore Shackley, who himself was former Deputy Director /Operations for the CIA. (And that's perhaps the LEAST sinister entry on his resume). Sorry for the confusion and any implied insult to Mr. Cline. -Steve (You get the feeling I seriously disaprove of Mr. Shackley? Can't imagine why. :) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13471 alt.alien.visitors:12431 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Message-ID: <73242@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:02:49 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 34 Subject: Mitchell Caverns and Dorn Underground Cavern. If a person is looking for the Underground City near Cadiz and Danby, Calif. it might be good to know a little more about that general area. Before hearing about the city I had heard about a person by the name of Mr. Dorn who had found a cave opening going down into a mountain that has a name that sounds like Mount Keoweef. It's over close to Cima, Calif between Barstow and Needles, Calif. Dorn was doing some prospecting when he went into the moutain and found a large inner area with a large open area that had a high ceiling. There was a small stream running through the cavern and he panned out some gold, brought it out and sold it. He then organized a group to develope the area but something happened and someone blew up the entrance a little ways down in the cave entrance. A large company was said to have bought the rights to the cavern and sealed it off. They also put some guards around the area to keep people out for a few years, but it has never been opened up. You should also realize that more UFO are seen in this area than any other place I have even been in. A US government ownes a cavern that takes people into it and is called Mitchell Caverns and it is in that general area. My friend Marge Bell used to live just south of the filling station at Cadiz. Once she was going to bury her dead pet dog and proceeded to dig a hole just a few feet south of her house. She dug down a foot or two and then hit a hole. She then took a 25 feet garden hose and put a weight on the end of the hose and let it down into the hole. She couldn't reach the bottom so she put on another 25 feet piece of hose and still couldn't reach bottom. It scared her so much that she covered up the hose and didn't tell any one else about it. She thought the whole area might fall in and take her with it. I have a feeling that the hole is part of an underground cavern that would go for miles and maybe connect to the underground city, Mitchell Caverns and Dorn's Cavern. Marge Bell has now moved away to 29 Palms, Calif. Her husband Mr. Bell died, her next husband died but she said that her husbands always died with a smile on their face. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!ehbbs!leigh.melton From: leigh.melton@ehbbs.gwinnett.com (Leigh Melton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Whatever it was... Message-ID: <2095.401.uupcb@ehbbs.gwinnett.com> Date: 8 Jan 93 22:03:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Ed Hopper's BBS - Berkeley Lake, GA - 404-446-9462 Reply-To: leigh.melton@ehbbs.gwinnett.com (Leigh Melton) Lines: 15 I just picked up this conference. The first package I got contained a .sig that was six messages long, or something of that nature. Is this a recurring thing? Just curious. L. --- . SLMR 2.1a . If code was meant to be portable, it would have wheels. ---- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ed Hopper's BBS - ehbbs.gwinnett.com - Atlanta, Georgia | | USR/HST: 404-446-9462 V.32bis: 404-446-9465 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: January 3, 1993 Message-ID: <141809.2B4E3E8D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 6 Jan 93 21:38:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) > Date: 31 Dec 92 16:04:56 GMT > Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. > Message-ID: <1992Dec31.160456.15458@odin.corp.sgi.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Michael, > Will PARANET be making the audio transcripts available to those of us > whom > do not access to the Satellite feed? Yes. As a matter of fact, we now have three programs under our belt. I will post something about the cost of these tapes and how to get them in the very near future. > Then again, mabye we could have JW warm up his astral train & transcribe > it > for us;-> hehehehehehehe...This may be considered to be an unreliable method. :-) Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ozzie Ufos Message-ID: <141810.2B4E3E8D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 7 Jan 93 21:58:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: Jim.Atwell@f851.n800.z3.fidonet.org (Jim Atwell) > Date: 29 Dec 92 07:07:02 GMT > Message-ID: <725996370.AA08617@csource.oz.au> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Are any readers of this group interested in regular postings of > up-to-date Australian UFO reports? > If so, post a reply. If there's a reasonable response I'll > organize some regular postings. Jim, I am interested in getting them. Presently we receive them from UFORA. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UPCOMING on the ParaNet UFO CONTINUUM Message-ID: <141811.2B4E3E8D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 9 Jan 93 01:45:04 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 9 Jan 93 01:46:05 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:35:06 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: alt References: <199227.4962.12342@dosgate> Lines: 16 Dear People: I have been asked why I think people can go to Venus and other planets after a conditioning period and how people from Venus can come here. One of the first reasons that I believe it is that I have talked to a person from Venus who is living here now. This lady was about 28 years old at the time, married and had a young child. She did not like to tell anyone that she was from Venus because she knew by experience that people of Earth will really give you a hard time if you say you are from another planet and even kill you. People from other planets have been caught and killed by people of a certain type of church and the priest of that church praised the people for doing it. A person by the name of Buck Nelson made some visits to other planets and he was subjected to some energy that over a two week period changed the resonant frequency of his body so that he could exist on Venus with no problem. Thats all the time I have now. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Conclusions RE:John Winston Message-ID: <73245@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:55:47 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <93008.134856U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> Lines: 4 Dear People: I don't believe Ethan will quite the group because I don't believe he is a quiter. You will hear from him again. At least we are hearing what he has to say and I for one appreciate that. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kiwi!murrayb Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ozzie or Aussie Message-ID: <36833.8933900@kiwi.gen.nz> From: murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz (Murray Bott) Date: 9 Jan 93 10:13:53 GMT Reply-To: murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz (Murray Bott) Organization: Household UNIX, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 22 Greetings Everyone With regard to the debate on the term Ozzie or Aussie this is largely hypothetical, they are still our neighbours across the pond (so to speak !!) I would like to get back to the original nature of this thread. I am interested in hearing about some of the reported UFO sightings which have been reported in Australia. The type that I am generally interested in are the CE2K and CE3K type and are generally not intersted in the "Lights in the Sky" type of report. Things have been rather quiet here in New Zealand recently, how has it been in other countries ??? Any Responces by Email are welcome!!! Regards to all -- Domain : murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz Voice : 64-9-6315825 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!do-not-reply-to-path From: ai373@yfn.ysu.edu (Terry Ford) Subject: UFOs's Message-ID: <1993Jan9.194334.26018@news.ysu.edu> Sender: news@news.ysu.edu (Usenet News Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:43:34 GMT Lines: 16 So, does everyone here believe totally in UFO's? You hear a lot abot about lights in teh sky, and  crop cirlcles and things. I did not believe ibn in UFOs for a whilem , but crertain things changed my mind. First, UFO's have been puicicked up on radar. Radar proves (well nothing can be proven), but it kshows that hallucinations can be ruled out. There have also been some famous cover ups, with people even some goverome retired government officials admitting that thee gov. is hiding something. I'm tired, so the grammear of this msghh  is most likely terrible. Please Email me, because I doit took me 15 mins to find this msg area, and I doubt I will evr be able to find it again. Terry Ford ai373@yfn.ysu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: UFOs's Message-ID: <1993Jan9.204411.19870@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1993Jan9.194334.26018@news.ysu.edu> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:44:11 GMT Lines: 32 In article <1993Jan9.194334.26018@news.ysu.edu> ai373@yfn.ysu.edu (Terry Ford) writes: > >So, does everyone here believe totally in UFO's? You hear a lot abot >about lights in teh sky, and  crop cirlcles and things. I did not >believe ibn in UFOs for a whilem , but crertain things changed my mind. >First, UFO's have been puicicked up on radar. Radar proves (well >nothing can be proven), but it kshows that hallucinations can >be ruled out. There have also been some famous cover ups, with >people even some goverome retired government officials admitting that thee gov. >is hiding something. I'm tired, so the grammear of this msghh  >is most likely terrible. > >Please Email me, because I doit took me 15 mins to find this msg >area, and I doubt I will evr be able to find it again. > >Terry Ford >ai373@yfn.ysu.edu Having a few editor problems? Looks like it. I thought I would send this to you so you could see how hard your post is to read. Yes, I think there is far too much data to rule out UFO's as anything but ET's in many cases. Read about Fred Bell... he was stationed at Point "something" or other (a radar installation on the NW coast) and they frequently saw massive UFO formations entering the atmouspher on a constant basis. It was VERY hush-hush, and he quit the military because he couldn't stand the atitude that these things must not be discussed, even among themselves... Jeff- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!warwick!not-for-mail From: pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiadian problems Date: 9 Jan 1993 21:16:12 -0000 Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK Lines: 22 Message-ID: <1infasINN7dm@paprika.csv.warwick.ac.uk> References: <1ij5qeINNkkn@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1993Jan8.204620.27605@netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: paprika.csv.warwick.ac.uk Peter T. (petert@zikzak.apana.org.au)wrote : +> A few sources state that the Pleiadians no longer visit us because they +> have "problems at home" that +> they must attend to. +> Does anybody know what these problems are supposed to be? +> Thankyou +> Peter T. Jeff (jeffp@netcom.com) wrote : + I would be interested to hear about your sources. + + Jeff- I'd like to third that, and also add that there seems to be a number of people who take the Pleidian message (from Channellers) to be gospel. If there spirituality, philosophy or theology is in wide use at home, then it may well be causing trouble. (Assuming that it is genuine.) If so, then surely it is rather foolish to base one's life on it. Graeme. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!victor.volkman From: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: CONCLUSIONS RE:JOHN W Message-ID: <1695.37.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> Date: 9 Jan 93 13:36:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Reply-To: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) Lines: 13 -> Dear People: I don't believe Ethan will quite the group because I You mean "quit" the group. -> don't believe he is a quiter. You will hear from him again. At least Try "quitter". ---- +------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ | HAL 9000 BBS +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins | | Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB | +------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: CONCLUSIONS RE:JOHN W Message-ID: <1993Jan10.002049.14830@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1695.37.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:20:49 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1695.37.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) writes: >-> Dear People: I don't believe Ethan will quite the group because I > >You mean "quit" the group. > >-> don't believe he is a quiter. You will hear from him again. At least > >Try "quitter". > Sorry Vic, email is supposed to be quick and dirty. It's not meant to be perfect or spell checked. We all know how to use a dictionary or spell checker, and depending on how anal you are, and how much you write, you can be good or not too good at spelling. That is not the point. The point is that how many people do you know that spell check their posts? I don't. Don't be correcting anybodies spelling on the net. It simply looks unsophisticated (sp?);-) Jeff- DON'T BE WASTING BANDWIDTH IN THIS GROUP! Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: BIGFOOTF SPACEMAN? Date: 9 Jan 1993 18:37:50 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 31 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1inr4uINNndm@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <1510.37.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article <1510.37.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) writes: :Even worse, you cannot "live" on Jupiter because there is no place to :"stand". It is not solid, it is gaseous. Not to mention gravity and :radiation are almost 100 times earth normal. Well, just to add to the discussion, there is a hypothesis (and I stress the word hypothesis) that the center of Jupiter is a large diamond (larger than the Earth, possibly). No, I'm not just quoting from Clark's book 2065. The theory is derived from the fact that the methane in the atmosphere gets converted (by lightning and possibly from objects such as meteorites burning up in the atmosphere) in to carbon and other chemicals. The carbon, being heavier, falls to the planet's center, where the heat and preasure would be enough to turn it into diamond. I am not very familiar with this hypothesis, and I'm not sure I've fairly represented it here. :---- :+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ :| HAL 9000 BBS +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins | :| Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB | :+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ Thanks Robert Fentiman UseNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu At: University of Minnesota, Duluth Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!psinntp!execnet![tom.betz@execnet.com] From: "tom betz" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: why i put physics here. Message-ID: <1993Jan9.274.8874@execnet> Date: 9 Jan 93 19:48:59 EST Reply-To: "tom betz" Distribution: alt Organization: Executive Networks Information Lines: 16 Quoth John - Winston regarding WHY I PUT PHYSICS HERE. on 01-07-93: J->Dear Folks: This all reminds me of the old song words that say, Why is J->everybody always picking on me. The truth comes out! See, John-Winston can't use contractions... he's an Android from the future!! No wonder he seems so odd... --- þ WinQwk 2.0 a#299 þ There is no such thing as a humble opinion. -- Executive Network Information System (914) 667-4567 International ILink Host Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!not-for-mail From: froggy@zikzak.apana.org.au (Robyn McNamara) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: HELP!!!!! Date: 9 Jan 1993 19:27:17 +1100 Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1im295INNq9@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <378.2B4BF15B@mechanic.fidonet.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au James.Porter@mechanic.fidonet.org (James Porter) writes: >Is anyone is Alt.aliens seeing this post? I dont think my USENET echos are getting outside of FLA. Anyone seeing this and not seeing a reply to it send me a message! > >james James, I can hear you! I'm on a public access computer system in Melbourne, Australia. I tried to mail you @mechanic.fidonet.org, but it bounced. -- Robyn A. McNamara The Cosmic Froggy froggy@zikzak.apana.org.au froggy@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au "...blankets and bedclothes, the child of the mountain..." - Simon & Garfunkel Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13479 alt.alien.visitors:12448 sci.skeptic:36796 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Bolivian Encounter Part 4. Message-ID: <73310@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 01:07:09 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 115 1>+&(----- .Subject: Bolivian Encounter Part 4. This is a continuation of the information about a person talking to a space person down in Bolivia. Korst: This is unbelievable. Is this really all true? Athar: We speak the truth. Horst: I simply cannot believe it. This sounds like a utopical horror. Kahun: Nevertheless our information is correct. HorstL I will have to believe it whether I want to or not, Your flying saucer is evidence enough for me that you must be right. Athar: We call our flight machines a beamship. Horst: May I know something of its drive? Kahun: We are not allowed to give information about such matters. Horst: I regret. Aathar: It would be a great help to us if you could assist us. Horst: Readily, what shall I do? Athar: We want to entrust you with a mission in connection with our existence. Horst: Shoud I perhaps write something about you? Kahun: This would serve our mission. Horst: I am not crazy. No human being would take this story for true from me, and I would be considered crazy, Kahun: As you wish, Then our troubles were in vain. We must leave now. Horst: Wait, it wasn't meant like that. Perhaps I could try where I would remain anonymous. Athar: How shall we understand this? Horst: Just so, that I do not tell my name. Kahun: That will not suit the purpose. Horst: What shall I do then? Kahun: You would have to go public as a contact person. Horst: I cannot. I am not crazy. Athar: Then our conversation is finished. Horst: I regret this very much but you must understand me. Kahun: If this is your last decision, then we have finished our conversation. Horst: So be if it must, but I simply can't do otherwise. Can you answer me a question? Kahun: If it does not concern our flight means and instruments, then yes. Horst: Before you spoke of people who call themselves contactees, but are not... can you tell me something about these. Athar: Why are you interested in that if you want to remain silent? HorstL It is only a question. On the other hand you have convinced me that you really have come from the stars. I would like to learn more, but I cannot go out publicly, as you suggest. On one hand no one would believe me, and on the other, I am not suited for this. Kahun: You may be right. Yet, as well, it is your right to know the truth...(Here some names were mentioned). Horst: Dear, are there so many? Athar: There are still more of them, but they are rather few in comparison to the true contactees. Don't you perhaps, want to work for our mission? Horst: It is enticing, but I really cannot. Maybe at a later time. I must discuss this with someone else first, thoroughly,who knows the whole matter and who is best informed. Can you tell me someone? Kahun: Go to the most important man of all, but you cannot assume your task later. You must decide this now. Either you know already what is your duty and what you are able to do, or we must renounce our aid. We must be very severe here. Horst: So I must deny it, for I cannot make a decision now. I regret, I will deliberate on this all and perhaps try, at least, to publish this experience with you. Aathar: This would delight us and will be useful too. But now, you really must go, because we still have to perform other labors. We regret that we have guided you here in vain. Go along in peace and do not fear. "So far I could write the conversation according to its words, and in the end, all not longer appeared so fantstic to me. After more friendly words we said goodbye, and I walked the hours back to Trinidad, where I arrived shortly before night. All night I lay and cosidered this, and I thought of having acted quite stupid, as I could perhaps have experienced still more from Kahun and Athar by a sham-agreement. My only thought was that I would be taken for crazy, if I would indeed publish something about this. Now I really do not know what I should think of it all, and whether I could have dreamed it. Please talk about it with my father and pastor and ask them for their opinion, which please let me know soon. Do also ask the pastor whether or not one should spread such talk. If he thinks this should be done, then please do it. I but ask that neither my address or yours is revealed, because I do not want to be troubled upon my return...I await an answer by you with your opinion. In one month I may be in La Paz where you can reach me at the usual address." Best wishes until then, and kind greetings to all. Your Globetrotting Friend, s/Horst The End. This is me JW speaking now. So now you have the rest of the story as Paul Havey the radio comontator says. John Winston. am not crazy. No human being would take this story for true from me, and I would be con&w& B %jEa*[$^:} Pr4DweeX$ 79_ 4R-XVe) @ Q ` & Q r 4 UWa& M ` ` v B Q T h0|HZ$k1vD S$Z!,(0| HZ$k1vDS 0Roman 10cpi Before you spoke of people who call themselves contactees, but are not... can you tell me something about Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!toad From: toad@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (toad) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: the Einstein conspiracy (TM)?? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 01:34:13 CST References: <1igi33INNmsr@ub.d.umn.edu> Organization: System 6626 BBS, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Lines: 26 cmorken@ub.d.umn.edu (Chris Morken) writes: > In article kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) w > >Can anyone out there provide me with info on the idea I've heard floating > >around that Einstein actually finished his unified field theory (but, of > >course, it was covered up by the gov't and is being used in secret UFO > >experiments or something)?? > > No, I'm quite confident that Einstein couldn't have finished his Unified > Theory, because he was wrong about a few major aspects of the theory, like > for instance he refused to believe in Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. > Einsteins's attempt at a theory seemed to work on a large-scale, but fails > when the normally weak force of gravity becomes very large due to something > such as a black hole. Without aceptance of the uncertainty principle he > could never come up with a Unified Theory. > > cmorken just for the record, Einstein did publish a few versions of his unified field theory, though published in German scientific papers, they were not thought of as being satisfactory to him, so his studies kept him going on the basis of a theory that would better satisfy what he was trying to attain. However, it should be fairly easy to get these older versions - Try sci.physics for more information - perhaps someone from the European community might help you with that. Xref: icaen sci.physics:35277 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2731 sci.skeptic:36797 alt.conspiracy:21619 alt.alien.visitors:12450 alt.paranormal:6275 Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,new.age Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Weird message - does any one know meaning? Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:37:50 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan10.053750.20019@bilver.uucp> References: Lines: 37 In article sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes: > >I would greatly appreciate an explanation of following message if any >one knows what it means? Please e-mail me with your response. Thank you. > >Subject: Is enclosed a threat? >From uucp@mv.MV.COM Fri Jan 8 20:58:37 1993 >Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 23:57:39 -0500 >From: uucp@mv.MV.COM (0000-uucp(0000)) >Subject: Warning From uucp >Apparently-To: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us > >Subject: Warning From uucp > > virgin!mail unhtel!virgin!nhstrat!rlyeh!cthulhu (Date 01/07) >The job will be deleted in several days if the problem is not corrected. >If you care to kill the job, execute the following command: > > uustat -kvirginN3725 > > Sincerely, > mv!uucp > . Nothing at all wierd here..It's just uucp telling you that it can't deliver mail that you've sent to someone@somewhere and will keep trying to get through for a few more days until it kills the task in it's job queue. Kill task=delete mail. Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:13:24 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan10.061324.20360@bilver.uucp> References: <1993Jan1.231216.28162@bilver.uucp> <72922@cup.portal.com> <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> Lines: 50 In article <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes: >In article <72922@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com says: >> >>Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship >>I think of Hitler? I agree the Don would be a good moderator if you >>think you need a moderator. >>John Winston. >This will be the one and only time that I respond to your crap. You must >understand that the use of Internet is a priviledge and not a right. >When you start posting under the guise that it is your right to post, >you are wrong. If you would like to go out on the streets and preach >to the world your 3 line messages, fine, that is your right. But you >must consider your use of Internet a priviledge and behave accordingly. >And if those who want a moderated group want one, they may create one. >You John Winston are under no obligation to partake in the discussions there >and can freely post here(although it is not a right). >Ethan Haslett >smoke... smoke.. flame off Whew. Well, John..it should be pretty apparent that you've upset a number of people here with your short-but-say-nothing-substantive postings. I should introduce you to Jack Mathias (grin). Anyways, you should lighten up and allow people to get on with it. In case you forgot, the *topic* here is about UFO's and Ethan here has a point you should bear in mind, and that is simply one of _courtesy_ . On Fido you would be considered excessively annoying and would be twitted off echoes accordingly. Does it take the entire userbase that reads this newsgroup in _some_ hope of seeing worthwhile posts here to continue tweaking your nose over your behaviour? Let's get back on the track here..I presume that you haunt this area in search of the elusive pieces of the UFO puzzle? Why not contribute something constructive to this newsgroup. I know that you're friends with Don Showen..what about bugging Don for me to post some more of those Barbara Marciniak articles here? That would be a "good thing" . Don Allen Fido UFO Echo Moderator MUFONET - 1:123/26.1 -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Newsletter Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:18:34 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan10.061834.20498@bilver.uucp> References: <93005.123520BOTGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Lines: 25 In article <93005.123520BOTGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes: >I am still getting questions about the newsletter I publish, and it seems >my previuos messages are being buried among the tons of others on this >conference. >Ok. Here goes again...The newsletter is called "The Nefilim Forum". It is >meant to be an interactive newsletter, so that we publish the letters of >our subscribers, brainstorming problems relating influence of extraterrestrials >on human civilizations. It is very influenced by Z. Sitchin's books and >in fact he has subscribed himself in December. We are also having other >scientists from all areas subscribing. Things are picking up, subscribers >start to realize at last how things work in terms of interaction with the >otheres. If interested, leave me a note. > >Regards, >Vladislav I'm interested..why not post some of the newsletters here? Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Global Deception Conference Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:34:16 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan10.063416.20680@bilver.uucp> Keywords: William Cooper, Cover-ups References: <1993Jan6.114057.28636@crc.ac.uk> Lines: 45 In article <1993Jan6.114057.28636@crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: >Is anybody going to the Global Deception Conference being held at >Wembley Arena on Saturady 9th and Sunday 10th January?? > >There is a weird mix of things. The speakers include : > > > Norio Hayakawa - an expert on 'black projects' and secret > technology I have a cassette tape of the "Ultimate Need to Know" UFO conference held in Calif last year that he speaks on. Mainly he introduces Michael Younger of the MJ-12 splinter group, COM-12 . Younger's group represents the "Constitutionalists" and are opposed to repressive movements involving NSA/CIA, *Wackenhut* /FEMA types who wish to round us all up in the concentration camps..oh the tape is fairly wild..but very sobering. I give it a 8 out of a 10. :} > workings of the New World Order > >The leaflet I have does not mention the word UFO anywhere, but the >line up with Bill Cooper and the others suggests very strongly that >it is very much a 'the aliens are here and working with the Government >who are keeping the truth from you' type event. Anybody have any >insights? Repeat after me.."Bill Cooper is full of dog shit..always has been, and always will be" A credible word has _never_ crossed his lips. He is the worlds largest prevaricator of tall tales about "secret underground UFO Bases" . He has NEVER produced a single scintilla of credible hard evidence to substantiate his claims. Read "Revelations" by Jacques Vallee for the interview of Cooper. Read "UFO Magazine" (PO Box 1053, Sunland Calif. , 91041 - $21 for 6 issues - published bi-monthly). Do some research on Cooper and get the *real* facts. I hold Bill Cooper lower than Bill Moore..and _that_ says it all. :} Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12454 alt.conspiracy:21620 alt.bbs.lists:2145 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.bbs.lists Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Fido UFO Echo BBS List - 9K Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:53:02 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan10.065302.21401@bilver.uucp> Lines: 164 This is a list that I compiled of all the BBS systems carrying the backbone UFO Echo on Fido Net. These were checked against the current Nodelist and active. More are added each month, so this list will continue to be updated. This is Version 1.0 - 01/10/93 ------------------------------ Don Allen Fido UFO Moderator MUFONET - 1:123/26.1 ** BBS's that carry the Fido UFO Echo ** Telephone # System Name Fido Node ================================================================= 201-335-1652 - Cobra's Triangle BBS 1:2606/549 201-451-3063 - Wrong Number BBS 1:107/816 202-863-1493 - Baron Carlos's Castle 1:109/160 203-932-6236 - ASCII Neighborhood 1:141/333 204-255-5993 - Futura BBS 1:348/101 204-269-7373 - Tech Talk Toll BBS 1:348/502 204-275-7416 - Parrot BBS 1:348/200 204-338-3423 - The Land 1:348/700 205-271-3545 - The Gateway 1:375/13 205-980-1089 - Deep Space 9 1:3602/45 206-242-8574 - The Corner! BBS 1:343/104 206-780-2011 - Quicksilver 1:350/201 209-823-0854 - The Beemer Board 1:208/400 213-464-4614 - Inner Space 1:102/747 214-394-1929 - User-to-User 1:124/6300 214-480-8170 - Night Lights 1:124/2221 214-625-2448 - The Terminator 1:124/7012 214-681-2218 - The DataBank 1:124/7015 214-724-0318 - Tejas Saloon 1:124/1019 214-783-1506 - Shuttle USS Richardson BBS 1:124/6107 215-443-9434 - Datamax/Satalink Connection 1:273/203 215-743-8779 - Proteus BBS 1:273/936 216-356-1431 - Nerd's Nook 1:157/3 219-485-8665 - The Starship 1:236/32 303-499-2713 - ParaNet Information Service - HQ 1:104/422 303-534-4646 - The Comm Post 1:104/666 303-534-4646 - The File Bank 1:104/899 303-933-3785 - MICAP 1:104/608 305-436-1884 - InterMail Sales 1:369/102 309-797-6027 - New Century BBS 1:232/31 310-370-4113 - Long Island RB 1:102/130 315-253-2600 - Auburn BBS 1:260/370 317-244-1146 - The Sherwood Forest 1:231/680 318-334-9924 - The Midnight Express 1:3803/8 401-732-5290 - Eagle's Nest Communications 1:323/126 402-488-2587 - Fortean Research Center 1:285/205 403-225-0346 - Jovian Astrology BBS 1:134/83 403-346-7530 - The Micro Express 1:134/2001 404-443-8693 - Spaceport Atlanta 1:133/524 404-564-9623 - Astronomical Society of the Atlantic 1:133/208 404-939-9937 - Visions 386 1:133/107 405-359-6929 - The Bull BBS 1:147/6 405-741-5120 - Our Potpourri 1:147/72 407-253-0782 - Flamingo BBS 1:374/46 407-322-3592 - Homebody BBS 1:363/81 407-330-7188 - Lake Mary Communication System 1:3618/95 407-383-9372 - The Bear's Cave 1:374/73 407-649-4136 - Gourmet Delight 1:363/29 410-327-9263 - Pooh's Corner 1:261/1131 412-266-5947 - Ambridge H.S. 1:129/55 412-488-8960 - Scouter's Haven 1:129/186 412-824-6566 - Astral Board 1:129/39 414-352-6176 - Radio Free Milwaukee 1:154/414 416-459-6259 - UFO Intelligence Network 1:259/208 416-523-6134 - The Turn Table 1:244/128 416-629-7685 - Canada Remote Systems 1:229/15 417-866-2284 - Art's Toy 1:284/55 501-646-5812 - Rainbow QuickBBS 1:3822/4 502-683-3026 - Space_Link BBS 1:2310/210 503-391-5838 - Purgatory BBS 1:105/605 503-526-9668 - Alternative Realities 1:105/366 503-620-5910 - NWCS Online 1:105/362 503-629-5473 - The Chess Board - Node 2 1:105/367 503-692-0872 - The Observatory 1:105/255 505-662-0659 - Construction Net #6 1:15/20 505-894-2535 - The Swap Meet 1:15/17 507-454-7386 - CIS-BBS 1:2360/16 508-991-6058 - Dreamer's BBS 1:329/863 512-474-0918 - The Diest 1:382/100 514-687-9586 - Arcane BBS 1:167/116 514-974-0445 - Chucara BBS 1:242/214 516-243-2953 - 516-MacEcho BBS 1:107/244 516-321-8125 - International Lounge 1:107/236 517-686-0681 - Altern/8 1:239/625 519-273-7668 - Five Guys BBS 1:221/275 601-825-9189 - Cameron's BBS 1:3632/24 601-842-9255 - Bushwacker BBS 1:361/502 602-661-1881 - Remotron HQ 1:114/37 602-864-8862 - ORAC/2 BBS 1:114/12 602-944-0524 - The Family Computing BBS! 1:114/161 603-888-3840 - The Outpost 1:132/113 604-431-6260 - Sita and the Ring 1:153/763 604-535-9826 - Tunnel Vision 1:153/910 604-589-8561 - Basic'ly BBS 1:153/9 604-736-5311 - Dial-A-File Mail Server 1:153/777 604-939-4857 - Phantom BBS 1:153/229 604-984-6000 - 1st Data Circuit 1:153/791 608-849-5842 - Springfield BBS 1:121/26 609-263-0406 - After Midnight BBS 1:266/59 609-722-0415 - La Dolce Vita BBS 1:266/40 613-825-9302 - Tumbler's Tavern BBS 1:163/315 615-899-6400 - America Speaks! 1:362/415 617-596-1579 - Helm's Deep 1:101/250 618-344-9048 - Dark Star VI 1:2250/21 619-284-2924 - The Open Forum 1:202/212 619-377-3611 - Sanctuary From The Law 1:210/41 619-778-0386 - Gray's Anatomy 1:202/812 702-826-2337 - Reno International BBS 1:213/790 703-803-6420 - UFOria 1:109/369 704-297-5973 - Spirit BBS - 1:379/703 704-525-6540 - Black Beard's BBS 1:379/18 708-290-8877 - Lunatic Fringe 1:115/542 708-453-6630 - Sun, Surf & Serenity 1:115/113 713-974-6995 - Beehive BBS 1:106/41 714-840-2437 - Central Office PDX 1:103/157 714-925-9564 - The Ouija! Board 1:207/701 717-236-1375 - The Line Source BBS 1:270/116 718-729-6101 - The Dorsai Diplomatic Mission 1:278/706 801-266-2426 - Planet Vulcan 1:311/17 804-229-5223 - The Realms of Magick 1:271/200 804-471-0736 - The Computer Forum 1:275/17 804-851-1384 - Jammie Party BBS 1:271/310 804-868-9023 - The Time Zone 1:271/232 813-574-4707 - CSPI - Two 1:371/1302 813-862-8850 - Studio PC BBS 1:3619/1 816-587-9936 - The File Shop BBS 1:280/316 817-496-0157 - The Vortex of Insanity 1:130/79 817-666-5137 - The Unicorner BBS 1:388/33 817-857-3523 - Y.O. BS. S. 1:388/8 818-508-0881 - The Wicked Scherzo 1:102/737 901-753-3738 - Operand BBS 1:123/58 901-785-4943 - MUFONET BBS - HQ 1:123/26 901-873-2837 - Buccaneer's Harbor 1:123/2 904-871-6536 - 221 Baker Street 1:3608/1 908-245-6938 - Heaven's Gate 1:2605/711 908-396-0790 - The 8-Ball Cafe 1:107/920 908-494-3417 - Planet ShadowStar TBBS 1:107/344 912-757-1864 - Wild & Dangerous BBS 1:3611/9 914-889-8379 - The Link BBS 1:272/46 914-928-8191 - Laser Light 1:272/56 915-594-8704 - Dano's Den 1:381/83 915-833-0405 - Cheyenne Mountain BBS 1:381/51 916-446-7286 - Gates of Delirium 1:203/163 919-349-7616 - The KEY Board 1:151/70 ================================================================= 134 systems listed. -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13480 alt.alien.visitors:12455 sci.skeptic:36798 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <73311@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 01:56:10 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: Please ignore the dribbless of my computer at the end. It must have the flue. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: California UFO Sightings 1947-1987 Message-ID: <73312@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 02:06:49 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: usa References: <8838.4920@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: That sounds like a lot of UFOs to me. The most I ever saw in one evening was 14 of them. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: HELP!!!!! Date: 10 Jan 1993 01:46:03 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 22 Message-ID: <1iok7rINN4u6@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <378.2B4BF15B@mechanic.fidonet.org> <1im295INNq9@zikzak.apana.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article <1im295INNq9@zikzak.apana.org.au> froggy@zikzak.apana.org.au (Robyn McNamara) writes: >James.Porter@mechanic.fidonet.org (James Porter) writes: > >>Is anyone is Alt.aliens seeing this post? I dont think my USENET echos are getting outside of FLA. Anyone seeing this and not seeing a reply to it send me a message! >> >>james > >James, I can hear you! I'm on a public access computer system in Melbourne, >Australia. > >I tried to mail you @mechanic.fidonet.org, but it bounced. Same thing happened to me. You're beeing heard (uh, read) just fine here in Minnesota. Thanks Robert Fentiman UseNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu At: University of Minnesota, Duluth Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re George Adamski-Fraud? Date: 10 Jan 1993 11:31:34 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1ip1emINN1kc@zikzak.apana.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN Re: comments from jeffp@netcom.com About the Adamski documentary, I tend to agree with you that the man appeared fairly genuine, bit new-age-ish, but I can live with that. In the film they quickly flashed his book called: "Insides of space ships, UFO experiences of George Adamski" Lucky I had the vcr going! {did I say that?}.What inteseted me about the book was that apparently it shows some sort of technical drawrings of alien craft. Does anyone know about these drawrings? If you do please let me know. Thankyou Peter T. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiadian problems Date: 10 Jan 1993 11:52:15 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 24 Message-ID: <1ip2lfINN1kc@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1ij5qeINNkkn@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1993Jan8.204620.27605@netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1993Jan8.204620.27605@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) says: > >In article <1ij5qeINNkkn@zikzak.apana.org.au> petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) writes: >>A few sources state that the Pleiadians no longer visit us because they have "problems at home" that >>they must attend to. >>Does anybody know what these problems are supposed to be? >>Thankyou >>Peter T. > >I would be interested to hear about your sources. > >Jeff- Sorry to disapoint you but here it goes: This news group {ie a.a.v.} Another BBS, contents are similar to a.a.v. but with less squabbling. Various T.V. documentaries And various UFO related mags So you see all I am is someone who absorbs all this info, thinks about it, and then asks questions pertaining to it all. Bit of an anticlimax eh? Ohwell thats life. Peter T. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!peg!golight From: golight@peg.pegasus.oz.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Date: 11 Jan 93 01:22 EST Subject: Re: HELP!!!!! Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Message-ID: <422800037@peg.pegasus.oz.au> References: <378.2B4BF15B@mechanic.fidonet.or> Nf-ID: #R:378.2B4BF15B@mechanic.fidonet.or:-548795256:peg:422800037:000:239 Nf-From: peg.UUCP!golight Jan 11 01:22:00 1993 Lines: 8 G'day Porter.....the echo is making it to Australia very well....not sure about the third response...that bloke must need a shave & a haircut...every one knows that echos are triangular not doughnuts!!! Regards from DownUnder Photon >:-} Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!peg!golight From: golight@peg.pegasus.oz.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Date: 11 Jan 93 01:24 EST Subject: Re: I am disappointed... Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Message-ID: <422800038@peg.pegasus.oz.au> References: <1993Jan8.024851.883@news.unomaha> Nf-ID: #R:1993Jan8.024851.883@news.unomaha:-1169233513:peg:422800038:000:147 Nf-From: peg.UUCP!golight Jan 11 01:24:00 1993 Lines: 7 Well, Duncan and Diane....here's your opportunity...lettaripp! Get the ball rolling & kick in some intelligent bandwith!!! Regards, >:-} Photon Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!emory!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!peg!golight From: golight@peg.pegasus.oz.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Date: 11 Jan 93 01:28 EST Subject: Re: Pleiadian problems Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Message-ID: <422800039@peg.pegasus.oz.au> References: <1ij5qeINNkkn@zikzak.apana.org.au> Nf-ID: #R:1ij5qeINNkkn@zikzak.apana.org.au:-403292066:peg:422800039:000:177 Nf-From: peg.UUCP!golight Jan 11 01:28:00 1993 Lines: 10 The again maybe they haven't gone anywhere at all. Possibably their just on holidays for a while....giving humanity a short break! Thoughts for Food....>;-} Regards, Photon Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!easix!tron.gun.de!locatech From: locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien Past. Message-ID: <228.40599@tron.gun.de> Organization: TRON Public Mailbox, Neuss, Germany Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:04:00 +0100 Lines: 30 \JOHN_-_\WINSTON%CUP.PORTAL.COM@USENET schrieb am 5.01.93 um 22:32: \P> Subject: Have You Lived On An Other Planet Before? \P> [...] \P> "I agree with the estimate of one in five people having lived a past life \P> in an alien world beyond Earth," he said. \P> This is me JW talking now. Lo and behold could this possibuly be true. Oh \P> me, oh my, what is this world coming to? So the theory of reincarnation seem to be true. But as I see there seem to be several stages of reincarnation, 'cause many people reported on the same planet. There are that many planetes in universe that could keep life on it, that it would be nearly impossible that more than 2 or 3 people have lived on the same planet before. It all seem to be in a order such as: You live on planet x and after death you MUST live on planet y and then on the next and so on. Do you know any more facts about that? \P> Source of Information: Weekly World News, January 19, 1993 page 21. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ How is that possible? Today is Jan 7,93 Or was that 1992? so long... Joerg -- * Origin : PGP 2.0 public key available upon request. // THE_DOT V2.05b DEMO // Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!victor.volkman From: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: CONCLUSIONS RE:JOHN W Message-ID: <1701.37.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> Date: 9 Jan 93 23:41:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Reply-To: victor.volkman@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Victor Volkman) Lines: 9 -> DON'T BE WASTING BANDWIDTH IN THIS GROUP! A meaningless statement if I ever read one. ---- +------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ | HAL 9000 BBS +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins | | Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB | +------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!gateway From: Adrian.Jenkin@f873.n800.z3.fidonet.org (Adrian Jenkin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs Message-ID: <726643972.AA02021@csource.oz.au> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:19:00 Sender: gateway@csource.oz.au Lines: 30 In a message dated 29 Dec 92 02:07:02, Jim Atwell wrote: JA> $MSGID: 3:800/851.0 2b3f2626 JA> Are any readers of this group interested in regular postings of JA> up-to-date Australian UFO reports? JA> If so, post a reply. If there's a reasonable response I'll JA> organize some regular postings. YES, YES, YES!!! I have only just come across this area (the sysop only picked it up recently). Give us some Australian sightings, we do not all live in the US and Europe. What is your group, I have never heard of you. If you like to give me some info it might be easiest to call up Deep Woods (if you know it) or send it through SA-NET as it might be quicker - I don't really know. Good to see a local contingent though, later mate, Adrian * Origin: The Deep Woods BBS (08) 287-2224 (3:800/873) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Subject: Re: Re George Adamski-Fraud? Message-ID: <1993Jan10.185308.6967@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1ip1emINN1kc@zikzak.apana.org.au> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 18:53:08 GMT Lines: 18 There is a book from the same time called: Space, Gravity and The Flying Saucers. Published in 1955. The author is Leonard Cramp. In this book he examines George Adamski's claims and, in particular, makes a rigorous scientific examination of the Adamski photographs of flying saucers. It was in this book that I first read about the idea of the ships generating their own gravity from the center of the craft so that the occupants don't suffer the affects of rapid course changes. -- ============================================================ "No creature that is intelligent and with the right values is an alien to me." John Salter ============================================================ Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com ============================================================ Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5650 alt.alien.visitors:12467 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!doc.ic.ac.uk!not-for-mail From: mch@doc.ic.ac.uk (Mike C Holderness) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Collective, dispassionate aliens Date: 10 Jan 1993 19:41:57 -0000 Organization: c/o Dept Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1ipu65INN8r4@swan.doc.ic.ac.uk> References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: swan.doc.ic.ac.uk Summary: not a lot rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes: >How come we see so few alien races that are more wasteful, more selfish, >and less able to accomplish anything than modern beaurocratic america? There is, believe it or not, an extensive literature on this. There existed as late as the mid-80s an obscure Trotskyist sect known as the Posadists, after their guru, one J D Posad, a resident of Italy. A key feature of their political platform went: * There are billions and billions of worlds in the Cosmos * Some of these must statistically have developed intelligent life * Some of _these_ must statistically have achieved advanced socialism * Advanced socialism, not entailing the waste of resources represented by the extraction of surplus value from the capitalist system, must be technologically more advanced than capitalism * Therefore [steps omitted] the vanguard of the revolution is up there in the sky, making "beep, beep" noises. I am not making this up. I'm not that inventive -- I'm a reporter by trade! I have _met_ these people (though quite what the significance of saying this, in this news-group, is, escapes me). Mike Holderness mch@doc.ic.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!moxie!anna From: anna@moxie.hou.tx.us (Anna Anderson) Subject: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming Organization: Home Improvement Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:45:27 GMT Lines: 12 Yesterday's "Unsolved Mysterys" showed a group of English scientists in the Stonehenge area who set up cameras in an attempt to catch crop circle formations. The camera caught some hoaxsters, but they alleged to have also filmed some apparently genuine formations. All that was said was that they were turning the film over to the scientific community for evaluaton, and then later to the public. I'm unsure if this was an old rerun or not. Anyone have any further information on this claim? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!ericom!hal.ericsson.se!etxsral From: etxsral@hal.ericsson.se (Lars Nilsson) Subject: SA UFO incident ? Message-ID: <1993Jan10.204331.13684@ericsson.se> Sender: news@ericsson.se Nntp-Posting-Host: hal14.ericsson.se Organization: Ericsson X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:43:31 GMT Lines: 20 Hi I've heard that South Africa shoot down a UFO some years ago. Two SA hunter airplanes was chasing a saucer-type UFO and one of them fired with a prototype laser?? on the UFO and it crashed on the ground. The UFO and the crew was later transported to the US. The incident was reported by a SA military intelligence officer. Have someone else heard about this story ? /lars -- Lars Nilsson | Senior Specialist - Data Communication | Ericsson Telecom AB , Stockholm - Sweden | Phone: +46 8 719 7308 , Fax: +46 8 645 6076 | Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ai065 From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Cryptozoology Information Network (Bigfoot, etc.) Date: 10 Jan 1993 22:04:08 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 311 Message-ID: <1iq6goINN7a6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu (NOTE TO OUR COMPUTER-USING MEMBERS: Please delete the first group charter which had been provided to you. The request that you try to type in and send us information still stands, of course. Look for the first issue of our newsletter at any time in the very near future. I'm typing it into the computer as we speak. There will also be a newsletter which deals only with cryptozoology in general. Any members who receive more than one copy should notify me, because this would be due to a dual listing of your UseNet ID.) Dear fellow researcher, investigator, or student of cryptozoology, By way of the very fact that you are reading this letter, you have made it known in some fashion, public or private, that you have an avid interest in the subject of cryptozoology. More specifically, you probably have a deep interest in the potentially unknown animal called "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch". It is for this very reason that I write you this letter- in a bold attempt to bring new life and restore noble goals to this field of research. Please read the charter found in this letter, which details more precisely the reason why this needs to be done, providing the framework for a new group that can transcend the current state of dissension, intimidation, and stagnation that currently permeates the Bigfoot field. In short, it is time we take the profit, power, and politics out of the research arena. Only then, in an atmosphere of good intent and no hidden motives, can we have true hope in solving this mystery. PLEASE note that we are basing our statements on various related aspects that are more in the cerebral, and are NOT making statements in relation to any specific group or individuals. There are MANY fine groups and individuals in this field, and all involved have brought good to this field in one way or another. If your interest in cryptozoology was spawned by a personal sighting, please request a sighting form from us and we will mail one to you. If you are part of a group or organization that would be interested in forming a working relationship with our group, please send us a letter detailing your group and it's activities. If you are an investigator who would like to be in our data bases so you can be notified of any potential future sightings in your research area, please send us a history of your activity in this field thus far. We currently are looking for donations in the way of material related to the field of cryptozoology. If you have sighting reports, books, videos, or any other similar information that may be of value to the group library, or would like to submit your own material for publication or review in our newsletter, please mail it to us. Finally, we are in dire need of addresses of other researchers, investigators, or people with a general interest in cryptozoology. Thank you for your time, we look forward to future contact with you, and feel free to call or write us for whatever reason. Thomas E. Hill The Cryptozoology Information Network 16124 Richard Dr. Brook Park, OH 44142 216-362-6529 THE CRYPTOZOOLOGY INFORMATION NETWORK ------------------------------------- DIRECTOR: THOMAS E. HILL (C)OPYRIGHT 1992 THOMAS E. HILL, CIN PURPOSE: Some of you may be wondering why there is a need to form yet another organized group of people in order to carry out research in the area of Bigfoot, or even the broader field of cryptozoology. There are many reasons for this, and I will try to make some of them as clear as possible at this point in time. First, many groups related to this subject have strict, non-spoken "laws" and "guidelines", largely driven by less than respectable desires, that are not conducive to our main cause- that being to aid in the final solution of this mystery, as well as other mysteries that may await our investigation. More specifically, these groups in general tend to hoard information, warn witnesses not to talk to other investigators, and basically try to sit on and control as much data on this subject as possible. This can be done in the name of striving for media attention, sole rights to material for books they can make a buck in writing, and even just for the share pleasure that their perceived power as "king bigfoot hunter" gives them. These actions are typical of investigators who have let this mystery consume and control their lives, rather than having a firm handle on their original good intentions in this area of research. Nobody should be blamed for this. It is one of the many potential pitfalls that this subject harbors, and it can be fairly easy for anybody with pure initial goals to lose their perspective when submersed in this subculture. That being said, we have decided to form a new group with the intention to not lose sight of the noble goal that others seem to have lost. We will provide free and totally open information concerning this subject as we procure it by our own efforts, while charging NO FEE for this information, membership, or any other function this group routinely offers. In other words, our membership is FREE, our newsletter is FREE, and all other routine aspects of our group will contain no hidden motives to make some form of profit. There may be a small charge to cover the cost of shipping and producing such material, but it will not be inflated so as to incure a large profit to make it worth doing for personal gain. The sole and main purpose of this group is to make an honest effort in solving this mystery. In order to do this, we must be as open and free with the results of our investigations as possible. Indeed, it is our belief that the desire to control information and isolate others is the main reason why this animal has not yet been found, and the mystery solved. Therefore, you can take comfort in the fact that we will present a complete and open service in proving the public, other researchers and investigators with information as we obtain it on our own. The only exception to this rule being witnesses who request total anonymity, information provided by other investigators who request that we not share it with others, or material that we are currently performing a controlled investigation on. This latter form of material will be provided to others as soon as our research in it's case is complete, and this kind of material is the exception rather than the rule in our efforts. To say that we wish to solve this mystery does not mean that we believe this animal exists. After all, if we knew that this animal existed then there would be no mystery to solve. Rather, in order to use a pure scientific approach, we make no premature judgements on the reality or myth of this animal. You can only grow and learn with an open mind, and this is the very root of scientific investigation. To scoff at the idea that such a creature exists without giving it a throrough investigation is being vein, not scientifically sound. But by the same token, crying out that this animal does exist without providing hard evidence is also not the solution. Rather, we must make an honest effort to solve this mystery and then hope that our efforts pay off. In the process, we will not: unduly seek media attention, try to incur profits from our routine activities, make an attempt to control information and isolate "competition", or operate our group in any ego-serving fashion. Again, the noble cause MUST be held close to our hearts in order to offer true hope in solving this fascinating mystery. STRUCTURE AND METHOD OF FUNCTION: The structure of our group has many aspects to it, and I will try to outline those in an orderly fashion. Our group was spawned by a computer, of all things. Thomas Hill, the director of CIN, has vast interest and experience to match in computers, and thus this is the conerstone to our group. Please note that, although we use computers to organize and operate our group in the most orderly and effective manner, by NO MEANS do members have to own, use, or know anything about computers. Computers are mainly used to support our infastructure, and play almost no role in the normal group activities, meetings, field work, etc. We currently use a computer system to do everything from solicitation of sightings by way of a worldwide computer network, to maintaining a data base of sightings, investigators, researchers, and various other things related to this field. These computer-related aspects are as follows: Several worldwide computer networks and computers inkey sighting areas are used to slicit witnesses to come forward with sightings. While this method is limited to people who own or use computer systems, this effort does reach millions of people all over the world and is, believe it or not, more effective by numbers than using a newspaper article. While it may be hard for a non-computer user to believe, there are millions upon millions of people who use these systems everyday. Requests for sightings are posted in a wide variety of special interest areas. Everything from: hunting, camping, fishing, hiking, backpacking, guns, park systems, outdoors, and bird watching, to even more less related interests, like: paintball, boomeranging, and off-road driving. These efforts, though still in their early stages, have already yielded several sighting reports, and this method should produce a wealth of new reports in the future. These reports can range from areas as close as Columbus, to places as far away as China. Another function of our computer system is to maintain a data base of investigators in every nation, state, and even county. We can then instantly provide these new sighting reports to the right investigators, as well as refer curious witnesses to local investigators who can help them. As you can see, this holds much potential in furthering the cause by way of freeing up information and providing quick action, if needed. In addition, our computer data bases are open to those researchers and investigators who need specific information. This could be anything as broad as a complete verbatim of sightings in a particular state, to something as specific as a list of animal colors described by witnesses in a precise county. As you might have realized by now, this computer network could be the very tool needed to bring this animal into the 21st century. We also use the computer networks to further our membership. Currently, we have close to 300 members nationwide, and these members provide us with an important eye in the watch for news and other related data on this subject. Any information our members spot is relayed to us through the network, and this information is then recorded and processed in proper fashion. Additionally, the networks are used to send out our newsletter in computer form, providing fast, free, instant information to our computer-using members, as well as the computer-using public at large. Think of the possibilities of being able to provide constant, free, informative news to millions of people on this subject. No longer do investigators have to seek the media's help in order to spread word of their work. The final major computer-related aspect to our group is the formation of a 24-hour computer bulletin board system (BBS). This BBS will be used as a portal for other computer-using members to gain direct access to our data bases, write and read electronic mail to other members, and report and read about new sightings. This will also provide a permanent library of articles related to cryptozoology which have been submitted to our group in paper or computer form. Computers are also used to produce our mailed newsletter for members, write letters, produce videos, and further research in the study of possible trends in data concerning this animal. Non-computer users should not feel in the minority here. In fact, the majority of investigators and other people involved in this field do not use computers. We simple use computers to further make our efforts more effective and responsive, but ALL activities and data flowing out of our group will be provided in the conventional paper format as well. Our group will currently provide a free membership, free newsletter, and free invitations to help in our field investigations. In the future, we may have a book out containing a compilation of sightings, articles on various related topics from key investigators, as well as guidelines on how to go about your own investigations. We also will be providing a free 1-800 number in the near future to solicit reports, a 24-hour hot line connected to it, as well as advertisements in key area newspapers to draw in more sightings. We also plan to acquire land in prime sighting locations, currently here in Ohio and PA, and will also try to encourage members who live in prime sighting areas to privide temporary use of their property for base camps. We are more than willing to work in conjunction with other research groups who request it, and will provide them with as much help in their investigations as time and money permits. We can only hope that other groups do not perceive use as some form of "threat" or "competition", and offer them a friendly gesture of scientific cooperation for future purposes. We will also avoid the political posturing that some groups and individuals currently take part in in this field, and only hope that they will return us the same favor in kind. These political games do nothing to further the cause, and are more or less the result of selfish motives. PLEASE keep this in mind if our group fails or hesitates to respond to any verbal garbage produced by such people. Once again, please note that we are talking in the general, and are NOT making specific statements regarding any specific groups or individuals. There are many find researchers and investigators in this field who are only making an honest effort to find some answers. If you would like to be a member of our network, please fill out the following form and mail it to our address (or electronic mailbox). Thank you for your expressed interest in our group, and I hope we can all share in the mystery, the adventure, and perhaps the final discovery... Thomas E. Hill The Cryptozoology Information Network 16124 Richard Dr. Brook Park, OH 44142 216-362-6529 THE CRYPTOZOOLOGY INFORMATION NETWORK ------------------------------------- APPLICATION FOR MEMBERSHIP ------------PLEASE PRINT OUT YOUR ANSWERS ON THE LINES BELOW---------- USENET ID #: NAME: PHONE #: ADDRESS: AGE: SEX: DEGREES AND/OR SPECIAL EDUCATION: INTERESTS: DO YOU WISH TO BE: _JUST A MEMBER _A GROUP SPEAKER _A GROUP INVESTIGATOR HOW DID YOU HEAR ABOUT ?: PLEASE LIST ANY SIMILAR GROUPS YOU ARE A MEMBER OF: HOW DID YOU FIRST BECOME INTERESTED IN CRYPTOZOOLOGY, AND WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITY HAVE YOU HAD IN THIS FIELD THUS FAR?: HAVE YOU EVER HAD A STRANGE ANIMAL SIGHTING, OR ANY OTHER STRANGE PHENOMENA EXPERIENCE? PLEASE LIST ANY SERVICES YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO PROVIDE, EQUIPEMTN YOU MAY ALLOW US TO USE, OR PROPERTY YOU MAY ALLOW US TO DO FIELD RESEARCH ON: By signing this agreement, I fully understand that the group and/or it's members can not be held responsible for any wrong or hurtful information they might accidentally provide, or for any other physical, financial, or psychological damage which may result from this information. I fully understand that the group and/or it's members can not be held responsible for any accidental injury, financial damage, or psycholigical problems which may result from meetings or field investigations. I also fully understand that the group and/or it's members can not be held responsible for my actions, both in and out of any activity related to the group. Finally, I fully understand that my membership and/or any service that this group provides may be terminated for any reason that the group may consider to be abusive, unconducive to our purpose, or not falling within the norm of civil behavior. SIGNED: DATE: -- George Bush? He doesn't have a clue anymore. Bill Clinton? A slick smile and a pandering style. Neither one is being realistic about what it is going to take. The answer..........? ROSS FOR BOSS! VOTE FOR ROSS PEROT FOR PRESIDENT! The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga! Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: BIGFOOTF SPACEMAN? Message-ID: <73323@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 14:54:16 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1510.37.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> <1inr4uINNndm@ub.d.umn.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I just have one question. How big is that diamond in the sky? John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13481 alt.alien.visitors:12472 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Message-ID: <73324@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 15:01:47 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73242@cup.portal.com> Lines: 59 Subject: Ancient Nuclear Test. In my travels looking for the Underground City near Danby, Calif. I was once on the north side of the Clipper Montains and found a lot of stones that looked like melted glass. It looked to me like there had been a war thousands of years ago and the combatants used some weapons that melted the stone and ground to turn it into glass. I then started studing the subject and ran across the following information; ....Although the modern world did not experience atomic reactions until the 1940s, there is a startling amount of evidence that neuclear effects occurred in prehistoric times- i.e., sand metled into glass in certain desert areas, hill forts with vitrified portions of stone walls, the remains of ancient cities destroyed by what appears to have been intense heat. Those scientists who have encountered these awe-inspiring aspects of prehistory stress the point that they are not referring to catastrophes that were cause by volcanoes, by lightning, by conflagrations se by humans, or by crashing comets. There are ancient ruins in Arabia that date back to the time when the southern part of the peninsula was fertile and well-watered. In western Arabia, there are 28 fields of scorched and shattered stones that cover as many as 7,000 square miles each. The stones are sharp-edged, densely grouped, and burned black. They are not volcanic in origin, but appear to date from the period when Arabia was a lush and fruitful land that suddenly became scorched into an instant desert. Albion W. Hart, one of the first engineers to graduate from Massachusetts Institute of Technology, was assigned an engineering project in the interior of Africa. While he and his men were traveling to an almost inaccessible region, they had first to cross a great expanse of desert. "At the time he was puzzled and quite unable to explain a large expanse of greenish glass which covered the sands as far as he could see, writes Margarethe Casson in Rocks and Minerals (No. 396, 1972). "Later on, during his life.. he passed by the White Sands area after the first atomic explosion there, and he recognized the same type of silica fusion which he had seen fifty years earlier in the African desert." In 1947, the Euphrates valley of southern Iraq, where certain religious traditions maintain that human life began, exploratory digging unearthed a layer of fused, green glass before the culture level of ancient Sumer. Once again, this fused glass bore a resemblance to the desert floor at White Sands, New Mexico, after the nuclear blasts melted the sand and rock. The Red Chinese have conducted atomic tests near Lob Nor Lake in the Gobi Desert, which have left large patches of the area covered with vitreous sand. But the Gobi has a number of other areas of glassy sand which have been know for thousands of years. In the United States, the Mojave Desert has large, circular or polygonal areas that are coated with a hard substance very much like opaque glass. There are ancient hill forts and towers in Scotland, Ireland, and England in which the stoneworks have become calcined because of great heat that has been applied. There is no way that lighning could have cause such effects. Hill forts of the west Atlantic coast fringe, from the Lofoten Islands off nothern Norway to the Canary Islands off northwest Africa were destroyed by such intense heat that certain of the piled boulders of their circular walls have been turned to glass. End Part 1. Source of Material: UFO Universe Magazine. Fall 1992. Page 48, written by Brad Steiger and Sherry Hansen Steiger. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13482 alt.alien.visitors:12473 sci.skeptic:36804 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Present Lives. Message-ID: <73326@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 15:19:29 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 7 Dear Folks: This thing about reincarnation really gets complicated. I know a lady by the name of Sister Thedra who is aware of another person who she also is who is a middle aged housewife and another lady who she also is who comes from Venus and attends UFO study meetings. In that body she is young and very pretty. To sum it up she is aware of three bodies that she is in. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: SA UFO incident ? Message-ID: Date: 10 Jan 93 23:20:19 GMT References: <1993Jan10.204331.13684@ericsson.se> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 112 Hi, etxsral@hal.ericsson.se (Lars Nilsson) writes: I've heard that South Africa shoot down a UFO some years ago. Two SA hunter airplanes was chasing a saucer-type UFO and one of them fired with a prototype laser?? on the UFO and it crashed on the ground. The UFO and the crew was later transported to the US. The incident was reported by a SA military intelligence officer. Have someone else heard about this story ? ... yep, it made the rounds here in November, here's part of a message I posted about it then: ... here's some detail, from "UFOs, MJ-12, and the Government", by Grant Cameron and T. Scott Crain, and "UFO Crash/Retrievals VI: The Inner Sanctum", by Leonard Stringfield (both available from MUFON.) Is this the case you're talking about? On May 7, 1989, so the story goes (first published in "Quest International" V9 #2, 1989, by Tony Dodd), a UFO flew over SA airspace, and was brought down in the Kalahari Desert by two Mirage interceptors, one armed with some sort of experimental "Thor 2 laser canon" weapon. Recovery followed (though only after a special paint was brought in to cover the object -- its EM effects were stalling recovery vehicles, including a helicopter, which crashed.) The object was later opened, and two live (non-human) occupants discovered. The object and occupants were flown in USAF C-5's on June 23, 1989 to Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio (i.e. the object and occupants were transferred from SA to US control.) Accompanying the story (when told to some English UFOologists) was a five page SAAF document that tells this story, along with additional detail (20 yards wide, 9.5 yards high disk; 4-4.5 foot tall greyish-blue occupants, etc.) The source for all this was one James Van Greunen, who claimed to be a captain in SAAF Counterintelligence, and who claimed to be on the run (in South Africa) from his own government for releasing this information, and to have over 300 more pages of secret documents in a bank-safe in Zurich, and needed money to escape with his family to the US, (enough money to get him out of SA was donated by various people.) He did, after a number of adventures (once getting as far as Canada before being deported back to England), provide another 3 pages of stuff, which proved to be faked (xeroxing his passport and birth certificate for seals, and pasting up the rest). Further documents provided proved to be retyped from various sources (Bill Cooper's "Operation Majority", Bennewitz and Lear stuff, some home-grown stuff published by Van Greuen's local UFO group, and a photograph from a US UFO magazine ("California UFO"). When confronted with all this, Van Greunen claimed that he got the original (the 5-page document) information from a Captain Greer (or Greef), who really is a Captain in the SAAF. While the original 5-page document has *not* been shown to be inauthentic; it appears that Van Greunen concocted the rest to try and get more money, and lend weight to his case. Stringfield reports that Van Greunen was not the original informant (i.e. the source of the 5-page document), JVG appears to have tried to use the information he had (from whatever source), along with more stuff he came up with himself, to obtain money. But the story doesn't end there. Henry Victorian, Stringfield reports, contacted Captain Greef in South Africa, who rather than denying the report, instead pressed Victorian for *his* source of the report. He (Victorian) was later had contact with SA military people, who confirmed to Victorian that the crash and recovery had taken place (though that some details were incorrect -- the EM-field paint part, for instance.) Victorian also made requests for information from NASA, US Space Command (part of DoD), and the Naval Space Surveillance Center (part of USN) for known objects that had reentered the atmosphere and landed in South Africa. NASA said: The only one they had close to that date was Satellite 19942, on May 8, 1989 -- "reentered 26 April 1990 at 0115 Zulu" [this appears to be a misprint, and they mean 1989, and launched that date, rather than reentered -- see below], impacting 18 deg. South, 41 deg. East, "off SE tip of South Africa". USSC said: the only one close to that date (that USSC believed to have actually have impacted on earth, 6 other reentering objects were said to have had a less than 5% chance of reaching the earth) was Satellite number 19942, International Designator 19890-032B (USSR), common-named "FOTON 2 (rocket body)", launched 26 April, 1989, impacted May 8, 1989, 0119 Zulu, 18 deg. South, 41.1 deg. East, Inclination 62.8 deg. NSSC was asked about FOTON 2, and said it was Int. Des. 1989-032-B, number 19942, launched April 26, 1989, impacted on May 8, 1989 at 1101 Zulu, and impacted at 46.6 deg. North, 15.4 deg. East. [Note very different location and time from above.] The recommendation of Cameron and Crain is to ignore Van Greunen's "extra" documentation entirely, but that the 5-pager is worth study. Timothy Good is of the opinion that the whole thing (including the 5-pager) is a fabrication, and that some of the other actors in the case (notably Henry Victorian (aka "Henry Azadehdel")) are not to be taken at face value either. The authors also contacted Bill Moore, who agreed that the whole thing is pretty shaky (notably that SDI-laser-on-a-Mirage sounds pretty odd.) ... so, the case is a mess. On the one hand, we have a 'public' source that is clearly discredited. On the other, we have a murky set of other things that cannot be completely dismissed, and a document that may or may not be real. (Both Stringfield's and Cameron and Crain's books reproduce the document -- Cameron and Crain's exactly as received, in Stringfield's its retyped.) Charles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!utopia!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group... Message-ID: <1Hm1wB3w165w@stycx.hacktic.nl> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 08:33:11 PST References: <1993Jan5.004128.10101@netcom.com> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 25 > >Agreed. I am interested in science. Not bullshit. > > Then why are you reading "alt.alien.visitors"? > > Try "sci.space" or "sci.astronomy". > > You want Alien Visitors, yer gonna GET bullshit! > I think you got it all wrong, look I totally agree that we are confronted with a number of people who seem to be profesional manure producers, this however does not mean that the whole subject area deserves to be seen in that light. I know that it is far easier to stick your head in the sand and avoid the confrontation with phenomena which we cannot explain. Post Electricum Scriptum, why are you reading it? Greetings -Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Stycx BBS +31 3404 59551 The responsibility for chance...lies within us. We must begin with ourselves, teaching ourselves not to close our minds prematurely to the novel, the suprising, the seemingly radical. -Alvin Toeffler Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13483 alt.alien.visitors:12476 sci.skeptic:36812 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!s1.gov!lip From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) Subject: Re: Present Lives. Message-ID: <1993Jan11.061111.26601@s1.gov> Sender: usenet@s1.gov Nntp-Posting-Host: s1.gov Organization: LLNL References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73326@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 06:11:11 GMT Lines: 17 In article <73326@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: This thing about reincarnation really gets complicated. >I know a lady by the name of Sister Thedra who is aware of another >person who she also is who is a middle aged housewife and another >lady who she also is who comes from Venus and attends UFO study >meetings. In that body she is young and very pretty. To sum it up she >is aware of three bodies that she is in. Comes from Venus? Does she complain that it is too cold here? That the air is too thin? That our atmosphere's composition is all wrong? This is really entertaining. -- /Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster /lip@s1.gov Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: NASA antigravity patent Message-ID: <141846.2B5093FC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 10 Jan 93 20:07:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ Lines: 21 In a message to All <09 Jan 93 12:59> Saul Dixon wrote: SD> From: elrond@zikzak.apana.org.au (Saul Dixon) SD> Date: 7 Jan 93 09:51:33 GMT SD> Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia SD> Message-ID: <1iguf5INNfun@zikzak.apana.org.au> SD> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors SD> make that a third copy. Any chance of posting the patent number here? Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dimensional Thought-Lab Message-ID: <141847.2B5093FC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 10 Jan 93 20:45:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ Lines: 50 In a message to All <02 Jan 93 17:54> Jack Sarfatti wrote: JS> FTL drives? Time travel? I believe them not impossible. So why not build JS> the damned things and see if they work? Hear, hear! People have been literally trying to do so in their garages and barns and basements for some little while. Have any succeeded? Nothing but anecdotes to tantalize us. One nuclear engineer (specialty: magnetic containment) in the NY area seems to have made some progress, but unfortunately he died when his house flew apart a few years back. JS> If it's a question of money, then how much? If an organization HAD the JS> funds, JS> who do you hire? JS> Or am I missing something? (Please don't harp about research costs- I know JS> all about it- and I still wanna know How Much and Who). JS> " Your list is certainly a good starting-off point. JS> As you note it takes money. The JS> credibility barrier and a depressed economy JS> inhibit investment although Clinton's R&D investment tax credits if JS> implemented may change that. The only money in this area is Church's JS> funding of Puthoff's zero-point energy research at Zeus - which is good. JS> I need about $1,000,000/year for 10 years to fund a small group of JS> theorists to keep abreast of the work of Kip Thorne, David Deuthsch, Yakir JS> Aharonov,Igor Novikov and other visionaries (Roger Penrose) working on JS> real time-travel physics - as well as to explore my new "minimally non JS> unitary QM" and Steve Weinberg's new non-unitary QM which does permit JS> FTL connection communication etc. We would also need a reserve endowment JS> of $50,000,000 in case experiments were deemed necessary in that period. JS> We would also develop educational multi-media and VR software teaching JS> relativity, quantum mechanics etc. to kids who would be the future JS> star ship cadets to make Star Trek Real and to fullfill our destiny of JS> Space Migration, Intelligence Increase and Life Extension. Ask Baron de Rothschild or the Ford Foundation. Your ten-year budget is modest. That $10,000,000 over ten years would barely pay for the concrete moulds for the Superconducting Supercollider. Perhaps if a few meetings or teleconferences between the folks could be arranged, a few thought-experiments and simple tests could be formulated to test them? Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: the Einstein conspiracy (TM)?? Message-ID: <1993Jan11.120151.2721@dct.ac.uk> Date: 11 Jan 93 12:01:50 GMT References: <1igi33INNmsr@ub.d.umn.edu> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 40 In article , toad@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (toad) writes: > cmorken@ub.d.umn.edu (Chris Morken) writes: > >> In article kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) w >> >Can anyone out there provide me with info on the idea I've heard floating >> >around that Einstein actually finished his unified field theory (but, of >> >course, it was covered up by the gov't and is being used in secret UFO >> >experiments or something)?? >> >> No, I'm quite confident that Einstein couldn't have finished his Unified >> Theory, because he was wrong about a few major aspects of the theory, like >> for instance he refused to believe in Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. >> Einsteins's attempt at a theory seemed to work on a large-scale, but fails >> when the normally weak force of gravity becomes very large due to something >> such as a black hole. Without aceptance of the uncertainty principle he >> could never come up with a Unified Theory. >> >> cmorken > > just for the record, > Einstein did publish a few versions of his unified field theory, > though published in German scientific papers, they were not thought of as > being satisfactory to him, so his studies kept him going on the basis of > a theory that would better satisfy what he was trying to attain. However, > it should be fairly easy to get these older versions - Try sci.physics > for more information - perhaps someone from the European community might > help you with that. His book "The meaning of relativity" outlines the general form that any unified theory would have to (in Einstein's view) take. It then sort of gets stuck. My copy of the book has about 30 pages missing towards the end in the GR and Unified Field chapters which doesn't help matters ... Not that I think this is a conspiracy -- just a cock up by the printers which most readers never notice :-) -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Int: +44 382 308810 -- There is only one true conspiracy -- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!peg!golight From: golight@peg.pegasus.oz.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Date: 11 Jan 93 23:39 EST Subject: Re: Alien Past. Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Message-ID: <422800040@peg.pegasus.oz.au> References: <228.40599@tron.gun.de> Nf-ID: #R:228.40599@tron.gun.de:-1353180072:peg:422800040:000:164 Nf-From: peg.UUCP!golight Jan 11 23:39:00 1993 Lines: 8 G'day Jeorg..... Maybe you 'live on planet x until you receive and integrate the lessons] of planet x life and then move on? Juz a thought....Regards >:-} Photon Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!hsr.no!elektro12.hsr.no!trondk_l From: trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no (Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94) Subject: Re: reply EINSTEINS UNIFIED Message-ID: Sender: news@hsr.no Organization: Rogaland University Centre References: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:46:55 GMT Lines: 30 In article kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) writes: >From: kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) >Subject: Re: reply EINSTEINS UNIFIED >Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:08:06 GMT >Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94 (trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no) wrote: >: I've seen a book about the unified field theory at our library. Also read >: thar Einstein didn't want to release this work, he meant that we weren't >: ready to use the knowledge properly. >: >: Trond K. Lindanger >: - Your friend in NORWAY >Just interested...any idea what this (these?) book(s) are called? My information is based upon the following two books: 1. A book about the UNIFIED FIELD THEORY Comment : I'll check out the title as soon as possible and return it to this newsgroup! 2. A book from which the Einstein point of view upon the field theory was taken. Title : "The Philadelphia experiment" Comment : Was mentioned in a short sentence. Maybe somebody else could write what page etc., I don't remember... Xref: icaen soc.culture.china:70953 alt.alien.visitors:12482 Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!gumby!destroyer!lambda.msfc.nasa.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes From: klaes@verga.enet.dec.com (Larry Klaes) Subject: Electronic Journal of the ASA (EJASA) - January 1993 Message-ID: <1993Jan7.234145.26246@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Keywords: SETI, China, EJASA Sender: usenet@nntpd.lkg.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:42:17 GMT Lines: 777 THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC Volume 4, Number 6 - January 1993 ########################### TABLE OF CONTENTS ########################### * ASA Membership and Article Submission Information * Conference Preview: The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley * A Visit to China ########################### ASA MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Incorporated. The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members. ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in astronomy and space exploration. Members receive the Journal of the ASA (hardcopy sent through United States Mail - Not a duplicate of this Electronic Journal) and the Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine. Members may also purchase discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and SKY & TELESCOPE magazines. For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any of the following addresses: Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (ASA) c/o Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy (CHARA) Georgia State University (GSU) Atlanta, Georgia 30303 U.S.A. asa@chara.gsu.edu ASA BBS: (404) 564-9623, 300/1200/2400 Baud. or telephone the Society Recording at (404) 264-0451 to leave your address and/or receive the latest Society news. ASA Officers and Council - President - Don Barry Vice President - Nils Turner Secretary - Ingrid Siegert-Tanghe Treasurer - Mike Burkhead Directors - Bill Bagnuolo, Eric Greene, Tano Scigliano Council - Bill Bagnuolo, Bill Black, Mike Burkhead, Frank Guyton, Larry Klaes, Ken Poshedly, Jim Rouse, Tano Scigliano, John Stauter, Wess Stuckey, Harry Taylor, Gary Thompson, Cindy Weaver, Bob Vickers ARTICLE SUBMISSIONS Article submissions to the EJASA on astronomy and space exploration are most welcome. Please send your on-line articles in ASCII format to Larry Klaes, EJASA Editor, at the following net addresses or the above Society addresses: klaes@verga.enet.dec.com or - ...!decwrl!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes or - klaes%verga.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com or - klaes%verga.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net You may also use the above addresses for EJASA back issue requests, letters to the editor, and ASA membership information. When sending your article submissions, please be certain to include either a network or regular mail address where you can be reached, a telephone number, and a brief biographical sketch. Back issues of the EJASA are also available from anonymous FTP at chara.gsu.edu (131.96.5.29) DISCLAIMER Submissions are welcome for consideration. Articles submitted, unless otherwise stated, become the property of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Incorporated. Though the articles will not be used for profit, they are subject to editing, abridgment, and other changes. Copying or reprinting of the EJASA, in part or in whole, is encouraged, provided clear attribution is made to the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, the Electronic Journal, and the author(s). Opinions expressed in the EJASA are those of the authors' and not necessarily those of the ASA. This Journal is Copyright (c) 1993 by the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Incorporated. CONFERENCE PREVIEW THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI) IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM by Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley Fiberdyne Optoelectronics, Columbus, Ohio From the author of the January 1992 six-part EJASA (THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC) article (Vol. 3, No. 6A-6F) on Optical SETI (OSETI). The author would like to acknowledge that this Electronic Journal has been instrumental in the organization of this conference, for without last January's publication, this author would not have been invited by SPIE to put this conference together. You are encouraged to remail this material to anyone you know with interests in SETI or to print it out and pin it up on your astronomical society, company, faculty, or school notice board. Some of the following material was featured in the October 1992 issue of EJASA (Vol. 4, No. 3) and the December 1992 issue of SPIE's OE REPORTS: Almost three years ago I began "lobbying" the scientific community to reconsider the optical approach to the electromagnetic search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI), first described by Nobel laureate Charles Townes (1964 - masers/lasers) in 1961. Unfortunately, many of the strongest proponents for electromagnetic SETI have become dogmatic and will not countenance open discussion of alternatives to microwave SETI, believing that the issue of the relative efficiencies of microwave and optical SETI was settled years ago in favor of microwaves. Optical SETI has received very poor press ever since the skewed ETI laser transmitter assumptions in the Project Cyclops report, two decades ago. This NASA design study report described a microwave array consisting of up to nine hundred 100-meter diameter dishes which if fully built would have occupied an area 6.4 kilometers in diameter and cost, in 1970s currency, some ten billion dollars. This grand project was never fun- ded but the report itself has had a profound effect on SETI thinking. In the comparison table that appeared on page 50 of that report, the optical system modeled described an interstellar laser communication system that employed a 1.06 micron Nd:YAG laser, and a 22.5 cm diameter transmitting telescope. There were various reasons for limiting the aperture of the ETI transmitter. One reason arose out of unnecessarily constraining both parts of the system to operate on a planetary surface, within an atmosphere, and thus be limited by the atmospheric coherence cell size. Another reason was to avoid the production of beams that were smaller than the zones of life around nearby targeted stars. However, the net effect was to cripple the potential very high Effective Isotropic Radiated Power (EIRP) of the optical transmitters. It would be far better to build larger transmitting telescopes and defocus them when targeting nearby stars, if, in the unlikely event, the ETI civilization did not possess the technical prowess to aim narrow beams into nearby stars. In this way, the long-range EIRP would not be unnecessarily degraded. The modeled "toy" ETI uplink telescopes put the onus on the young and technically immature receiving civilization (humanity) to build very large and expensive telescopes to receive weak signals from mature ETI civilizations, instead of the converse. It was this part of an otherwise excellent report that so distorted its conclusions concerning the efficacy and relative cost (to us) of the optical approach to SETI. If we allow for transmitting and receiving apertures to be 10 meters in diameter or larger, it can be shown for transmitter powers comparable to those for microwave systems that relatively small diffraction- limited laser systems are capable of supporting far higher signal-to- noise ratios and data rates than the much larger microwave systems. The extremely high gains of optical antennas more than make up for the additional quantum noise and stellar background radiation noise. The lack of (currently) easily identifiable "magic optical frequencies", equivalent to the microwave waterhole between 1.420 and 1.662 GHz, save for the major CO2 transition at 10.6 microns, is not a reason to conclude that ETIs would not use lasers to signal Earth. Indeed, the effectiveness of pulsed laser signals is so high that there is less need to be concerned about the exact laser frequency. Indeed, from the viewpoint of communications with extraterrestrial intelligences (CETI), which is not presently being proposed, terrene SDI lasers of the late Twentieth Century are certainly capable of "reaching out and touching ETIs" across one thousand or more light years. The problem today is that we do not know where to point our lasers and we lack the means to provide precise forward predictive targeting of extrasolar planets. Even more basic to this problem is that direct visual observations of other planets around nearby star systems await the technological developments of the next century. In the meantime, we must take the passive and perhaps safer approach of listening for ETI signals. Let it be noted here that the word "optical" is used in a manner familiar to optoelectronics (photonics) engineers and scientists, as an umbrella term. It is a superset of both "visible" and "infrared." The word "optical" is not to be taken as being synonymous with the word "visible", since the former (for communication engineers) covers all electromagnetic frequencies from the far-infrared to the ultra-violet. Last year, OE REPORTS had an interview with Dr. Monte Ross of Laser Data Technology Inc., in which he described his thoughts about the search for extraterrestrial intelligence in the optical spectrum. At that time, I was unaware of Dr. Ross's work. Last January, I had just published electronically on Internet a very long paper on the subject in this Electronic Journal. This was the six-part article in THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC (EJASA, Vol. 3, No. 6A-6F). As a result of my electronic paper, during the summer I was asked by Dr. David L. Begley of Ball Aerospace Systems Group to organize a special session on Optical SETI (OSETI) for SPIE as part of the OE/LASE '93 symposium. David Begley is the previous chairman of the Free-Space Laser Communications conferences. The Optical SETI event was originally planned to be a single session in SPIE's Free-Space Laser Communication Technologies V conference, chaired by Dr. Stephen Mecherle of TRW, Inc. Even though summer was a difficult time to start organizing a conference, I was able to get so many papers at short notice that the single session was extended into a dedicated conference with three sessions and a separate published proceedings. The latter will be available as SPIE Volume 1867 after the conference and will constitute the first publication on this subject. The conference will be held on January 21-22, 1993 at the Los Angeles Airport Hilton Hotel and immediately follows the Free-Space Laser Communication Technologies V conference. The Optical SETI conference cochair will be Monte Ross. This event is effectively, though unofficially, the First International Conference on Optical SETI. This SETI event will be of particular interest to laser communi- cations scientists and engineers. It presents the opportunity to help resolve the dichotomy within NASA that while lasers are fine for GEO to GEO, GEO to LEO, deep space, and interstellar communications, ETIs would not use such technology to signal emerging technical civilizations (us). The first session will bring the laser communications community up to speed on microwave (conventional) SETI and general SETI related matters. The second and third sessions are specifically devoted to optical SETI topics. Many shades of opinion are included. We are fortunate in being able to have Arthur C. Clarke kick off this conference from his home in Sri Lanka. This will be a videotaped address. These days, Clarke's health precludes extensive traveling. We are also investigating the possibility that NASA Select TV could cover the entire conference on a live or tape-delayed basis. If you cannot attend this conference but would like to see it transmitted by NASA Select, write to SPIE and NASA Headquarters requesting this coverage. The more people lobby for this, the more likely is the cooperation of the concerned parties. For those with a TVRO (TeleVision Receive Only) satellite dish, NASA Select TV is available on Satcom F2R (72 W), Transponder 13. Among the 16 papers scheduled: Dr. David Brocker, who heads NASA's High Resolution Microwave Survey, will give the keynote paper on NASA's search for evidence of extraterrestrial technologies (Dr. Peter Backus will now be presenting this paper). Drs. David Latham and David Soderblom will discuss the strategies for the SETI star targeting survey and Drs. Michael Klein and Samuel Gulkis from JPL will describe the high-resolution all-sky survey. The "Grand Old Man" of SETI, Dr. Bernard M. Oliver, who is extremely critical of the optical approach, will demonstrate for the first time to the laser communi- cations community why ETIs would not use lasers for SETI interstellar communications. Professor Frank Tipler, a strong critic of SETI, will explain why both microwave and optical SETI is a waste of time, since he thinks that we are the first civilization in the Milky Way galaxy. Philosopher Clive Goodall will rebut Frank Tipler's arguments, and Noted philosopher Professor Neil Tennant will present his view of why there could be major problems in actually decoding the message on an ETI signal. This may be the first time that philosophers have presented papers at a "technical" meeting on SETI, particularly one organized by SPIE. Dr. Guillermo Lemarchand will describe both radio and optical SETI activities in Argentina and give an account of the MANIA optical SETI project devised by the late Professor Shvartsman of the former Soviet Union. Drs. John Rather and Monte Ross (conference co-chairman) will give accounts of their approaches to interstellar laser communi- cations, while this author will present a review paper and describe the amateur approach to optical SETI. There will be a discussion at the end of the conference, moderated by Charles Townes, who earlier will talk about his CO2 optical SETI laser work, and the CO2 OSETI observations being conducted by Dr. Albert Betz on Mount Wilson. Note that as with previous SETI publications, the latest book by SETI pioneer Professor Frank Drake and Dava Sobel IS ANYONE OUT THERE? hardly mentions the optical approach. This conference intends to redress that omission. This "controversial" OSETI conference should be a "fun" event but you do not need to be a laser communications engineer or SETI scientist to attend - you only need a curiosity about "our" place in the grand scheme of things. With large telescopes, Optical SETI is the one branch of visible astronomy, save for solar astronomy, that can be done during the day under a clear blue sky! Last October, we saw the celebration of the Quincentennial of Christopher Columbus's voyage to the Americas and the official start of NASA's Microwave Observing Project (MOP), recently renamed the High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS). Numerous articles on SETI have appeared in recent magazine publications, including the September 1992 issue of LIFE, the October issue of ASTRONOMY, and the November/December issue of SMITHSONIAN AIR & SPACE. See also recent issues of TIME and NEWSWEEK. The November issue of SKY & TELESCOPE has a long article about microwave SETI and mentions the optical approach. This is probably the first published popular account of modern OSETI in the printed media. See the bibliography at the end of this article. I have also begun the construction of what I believe to be the world's first amateur optical SETI (AMOSETI) Observatory. This will be based around the Meade 10-inch LX200 Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope, and is one of the most advanced on the market today for use under computer and CCD control. In the last paper of the conference, I will be reporting on the amateur approach to Optical SETI and any work done to date on my observatory system. In many respects, the approach adopted by the author for AMOSETI is similar to that employed by Shvartsman and Beskin in the MANIA project, i.e., looking for very short pulses rather than CW beacon signals. It is possible that AMOSETI will lead to a renaissance in amateur astronomy, where light pollution - the bane of astronomers - has no effect on ETI detection sensitivity! At this time during the sharp decline in the industrial-military complex, can there be a more ennobling way for defense conversion - to turn laser swords into SETI or CETI plowshares and help discover that we are not alone within the Milky Way galaxy? Monte and I look forward to seeing you at this conference at the rebirth of a new branch of science. About the Author - Stuart A. Kingsley is a fiber optic consultant and Director of the world's first Amateur Optical SETI Observatory. He received a B.Sc. Honors and Ph.D. in Electronic and Electrical Engineering from The City University, London (1972) and University College London (1984), respectively (England). He worked at Battelle Columbus Division as Principal Research Scientist and then as Senior Research Scientist from 1981 to 1987. He has been involved in producing a variety of fiber- optic sensors, including fiber-optic rotation sensors. He invented the fiber-optic line-stretcher and fiber-optic line-squeezer phase modulators that are now important components in fiber-optic sensor systems. He shared a 1984 Rank Prize in Optoelectronics for pioneering work on fiber-optic sensing. Stuart's other professional interests include the possible health effects of electromagnetic pollution and adverse effects from fluor- escent lighting/VDT flicker. He is the author of 38 papers in fiber- optics, mainly related to coherent systems and distributed fiber-optic sensing, and several patents mainly in the area of coherent fiber-optic systems. He is a member of the IEE, a British Chartered Engineer, a senior member of IEEE and a member of Eta Kappa Nu Association. He is also a member of The Planetary Society, the Columbus Astronomical Society, and a former member of the Astronomical Society of Haringey (ASH) in London. CONFERENCE PROGRAM OE/LASE '93 THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI) IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM SPIE Proceedings Vol. 1867 Location: Los Angeles Airport Hilton Hotel, Los Angeles, California, U.S.A. Conference Chairman: Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, Fiberdyne Optoelectronics. Co-chair: Dr. Monte Ross, Laser Data Technology, Inc. Room: Pacific A SESSION 1 - INTRODUCTION AND CONVENTIONAL MICROWAVE SETI Session Chairman - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, Fiberdyne Optoelectronics. Thursday, January 21, 1993 Afternoon 1:20 to 5:00 pm 1:20 pm Opening Remarks Stuart A. Kingsley, Fiberdyne Optoelectronics 1.30 pm "Let there be light" (Videotaped Keynote Address) Arthur C. Clarke Chancellor - International Space University, Sri Lanka. (1867-01) 2:00 pm "The NASA search for evidence of extraterrestrial technologies" (Keynote Paper) David Brocker Project Manager, HRMS SETI Office NASA Ames Research Center (1867-02) 2:30 pm "Strategies for SETI target selection" Dr. David W. Latham and Dr. David R. Soderblom Dr. David W. Latham Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Dr. David R. Soderblom Associate Astronomer Space Telescope Science Institute (1867-03) 2:50 pm "High-resolution microwave all-sky survey" Dr. Michael J. Klein and Dr. Samuel Gulkis Dr. Michael J. Klein HRMS Program Manager Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dr. Samuel Gulkis Jet Propulsion Laboratory (1867-04) 3:10 to 3:30 pm Coffee Break 3:30 pm "SETI - a waste of time!" (Invited Paper) Professor Frank Tipler Physics Department Tulane University (1867-05) 4:00 pm "Using modern analytical philosophy (MAP) to sweep the MOP clean: Non-optical reflections upon untapped data, bad arguments and the nonexistence of Von Neumann interstellar probes." Clive Goodall Department of Philosophy The Ohio State University (1867-06) 4:30 pm "The decoding problem: do we need to search for extra terrestrial intelligence to Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence?" Professor Neil W. Tennant Department of Philosophy The Ohio State University (1867-07) 5:00 pm Combined reception for the authors from this conference and the Free-Space Laser Communications V conference. SESSION 2 - OPTICAL SETI I Session Chairman - Dr. Monte Ross, Laser Data Technology, Inc. Friday, January 22, 1993 Morning 8:30 to 11:45 am ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Special Event | | | | 8:30 am | | Technical attendees will have the opportunity to participate in a | | 15-minute question/answer period with Arthur C. Clarke | | (in Sri Lanka) via phone hook-up. | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 8:45 am "Fundamental factors affecting the optimum frequency range for SETI" (Invited Paper) Dr. Bernard M. Oliver Deputy Chief, NASA SETI Office NASA Ames Research Center (1867-08) 9:15 am "The search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI) in the optical spectrum and professional optical SETI: a review" Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley President Fiberdyne Optoelectronics (1867-09) 9:45 pm "An economic rationale for extraterrestrials using lasers for SETI" Dr. Monte Ross President Laser Data Technology, Inc. (1867-10) 10:05 to 10:35 am Coffee Break 10:35 am "Infrared SETI" Professor Charles H. Townes Department of Physics Space Sciences Laboratory University of California, Berkeley (1867-11) 11:05 am "Use of lasers for interstellar beacons, communications and travel" Dr. John Rather NASA Headquarters (1867-12) 11:25 am "Optical SETI from the southern hemisphere" Dr. Guillermo A. Lemarchand, Dr. Gregory M. Beskin, Dr. Fernando R. Colomb, and Dr. Mariano Mendez Dr. Guillermo A. Lemarchand Visiting Fellow Center for Radiophysics and Space Research Cornell University Dr. Gregory M. Beskin Special Astrophysical Observatory Soviet Academy of Science Dr. Fernando Raul Colomb Director Instituto Argentino de Radioastronomia Dr. Mariano Mendez Researcher Observatorio Astronomico de La Plata (1867-13) 11:45 am to 1:00 pm Lunch SESSION 3 - OPTICAL SETI II Session Chairman - Dr. James R. Lesh, Jet Propulsion Laboratory Friday, January 22, 1993 Afternoon 1:00 to 2:00 pm 1:00 pm "Application of one measure of search merit to optical SETI" Dr. D. Kent Cullers Signal Detection Sub-System Manager SETI Project NASA Ames Research Center (1867-14) 1:20 pm "Large M-ary pulse position modulation and photon buckets for effective interstellar communications" Dr. Monte Ross President Laser Data Technology, Inc. (1867-15) 1:40 pm "Amateur optical SETI"* Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley President Fiberdyne Optoelectronics (1867-16) "Recent progress in deep-space optical communication (Proceedings Only) Dr. James R. Lesh Jet Propulsion Laboratory (1867-17) Workshop/Panel Discussion 2.30 - 4.30 pm Moderator - Professor Charles H. Townes, 1964 Nobel Prize Laureate, University of California, Berkeley. Closing Remarks 4.30 pm Stuart A. Kingsley, Fiberdyne Optoelectronics Monte Ross, Laser Data Technology, Inc. * The last conference paper will give preliminary details of the design of the world's first Amateur Optical SETI Observatory, presently under construction in the author's backyard. --------------- To receive a copy of the Advance Technical Program from SPIE which also provides information about registration, accommodation and costs to attend this conference (see details below), contact Rosa Cays (rosa@mom.spie.org) or Terry Montonye (terry@mom.spie.org) at: SPIE P.O. Box 10 Bellingham WA 98227-0010 Tel: (206) 676-3290 Fax: (206) 647-1445 For more information, the conference organizer Stuart Kingsley can be contacted at: Fiberdyne Optoelectronics 545 Northview Drive Columbus Ohio 43209 Tel: (614) 258-7402 Fax: (614) 258-7459 OSETI Bulletin Board System (BBS): (614) 258-1710 Internet: skingsle@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu CompuServe: 72376,3545 OE/LASE '93 includes symposia over the period 16-23 January 1993 on the following subjects: Free-Space Laser Communications V (January 20-21, 1993). The Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum (January 21-22, 1993). Laser Engineering (January 17-22, 1993). Optoelectronic Processing and Interconnects (January 17-23, 1993). Biomedical Optics '93 (January 16-22, 1993). There are also educational short courses (January 17-22, 1993) and two technical exhibitions, the Medical Exhibition (January 16-17, 1993), and the Laser and Sensor Exhibition (January 19-21, 1993). Registration Member Working Non- Group Member Full Conference* $355 $380 $415 Author (full conf.) $290 $310 $340 One day $165 $175 $190 Author (one day) $140 $150 $165 Students (no lunch) $ 60 $N/A $ 70 *Rate for a three-day conference. **There is no separate registration rate for the SETI conference. Attendees for the SETI conference will have to pay for two days. If you can spare the time, attendees are recommended to take in the Wednesday morning and afternoon, and Thursday morning sessions of the Free-Space Laser Communication Technologies V conference, as this technology is very relevant to Optical SETI. The cost for the full conference period (three days) is little more than for the two day OSETI conference alone. SPIE Proceedings Volume 1867 $ 35 These proceedings will also include a copy of Dr. Lesh's large review paper on NASA's optical communications activities, which is to be presented at the Free-Space Laser Communication Technologies V conference. Accommodation Los Angeles Airport Hilton Hotel (OE/LASE '93 Conference Center) 5711 West Century Boulevard Los Angeles, California 90045, USA Tel: (310) 410-4000 Fax: (310) 410-6250 Rates: Single or double (government) $81 Single or double $89 - $109 Los Angeles Airport Marriott Hotel 5855 West Century Boulevard Los Angeles, California 90045, USA Tel: (310) 641-5700 Fax: (310) 337-5358 Rates: Single or double (government) $80 Single or double $85 - $105 Bibliography - EJASA, Volume 3, Number 6, Parts 6A-6F, January 1992. EJASA, Volume 4, Number 3, October 1992. SKY & TELESCOPE, November 1992, pp. 513. LASER FOCUS WORLD, November 1992, p. 5. PHOTONICS SPECTRA, December 1992, p. 10. OE REPORTS, December 1992, pp. 1 and 3. COLUMBUS MONTHLY, January 1993, pp. 77-78, 80. A VISIT TO CHINA From November 2 to 7, 1992, ASA member Paul J. Wiita of GSU's Department of Physics and Astronomy attended the "Workshop on Accretion and Jets" at the Huazhong (Central China) Normal University in Wuhan, on the mighty Yangtze (Yellow) River. Over thirty-five Chinese astronomers from about one dozen universities and observatories attended, along with one Japanese and three American participants. Twelve invited and twenty-six contributed oral papers were presented. Wiita gave two invited lectures on "Observations and Theoretical Models for Microvariablity in Active Galactic Nuclei", which were very well received. When Professor Hanawa from Nagoya University had to leave early, Paul was asked to give an additional talk on "The Propagation of Radio Jets through Galactic Halos and the Intracluster Medium", which had to be prepared from memory. This meeting was originally scheduled for June 6 to 11 of 1989, but the confrontation in Tianamen Square in the capital city of Beijing caused it to be postponed. At the time, most Chinese seemed to feel free to discuss politics in private, but were still wary of public conversations. Nevertheless, Paul's introductory remarks indicating that he hoped all astronomers - including the exiled leading astrophysicist Fang Lizhi - would be able to participate in the next meeting in Wuhan drew strong applause. The hospitality was extraordinary, with Professor Yang Lantian and the other hosts providing all facilities, including sumptuous banquets every lunch and dinner (not to mention massive breakfasts). A tour of local attractions, including the huge East Lake with its many parks, towers, and gardens and the 57-meter (180-foot) tall Yellow Crane Pagoda was arranged for the participants. After the meeting, Wiita and a few other lecturers went on a trip to the ancient capital Xi'an (where the famous terra-cotta army of the First Emperor is displayed), as well as to Beijing, and a visit to the incomparable Great Wall. All of the foreign participants were impressed with the economic strides China has made over the past fifteen years. The standard of living of the average person is clearly quite adequate. The shops are full of a very wide range of goods, including VCRs, eight-millimeter camcorders, and, most importantly, telescopes. THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC January 1993 - Vol. 4, No. 6 Copyright (c) 1993 - ASA Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12483 talk.religion.newage:13485 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!psuvax1!psuvm!jls19 Organization: Penn State University Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:35:19 EST From: Message-ID: <93011.093520JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Aliens and "Mary's Message to the World" Lines: 25 This book, "Mary's Message to the World" is by Annie Kirkwood and she talks about the role the aliens will play in the upcoming earth changes. She also states how our government has been covering up the information regarding the aliens and also the changes that are occuring in our solar system, even now. They are doing these things in order not to alarm us, but we must be made aware of what is to come in order to prepare. She also states how religions are censoring her messages, thus she is appearing to those with no religious afiliations in order to get the message to ALL peoples. She even talks about how humans are going to be changed, altered genetically in the aftertimes. Yes, remember Don Showen's story on altering the DNA! She speaks of our DNA being changed! She explains many things, what areas of the world will be affected, gives a general time frame, and also she explains the symbolisms and misconceptions that religions have had about the intepretations of Revelations in the Bible. I feel it is well worth reading, excellent book. Will these things come true? Well, only time will tell. But it does do a wonderful job of explaining the falicies of organized religions and neatly ties our earth's religious stories and future happenings in with our role in the universe and with the other beings that inhabit it. My rating: **** Planet Xref: icaen soc.culture.china:70954 alt.alien.visitors:12484 Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!news.udel.edu!brahms.udel.edu!gbc From: gbc@brahms.udel.edu (Baochun Ge) Subject: SOCCER Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.udel.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: brahms.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:07:38 GMT Lines: 7 Hellow Guys: I know Chinese soccer team beat Poland Olympic and Moscow teams 5:1 and 3:1 seperately in Singapore. But who won the champain after all, China or South Korea ? Information much appreciated. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pleiadian problems Date: 11 Jan 1993 14:35:39 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 35 Message-ID: <1is0jrINN137@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1ij5qeINNkkn@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1993Jan8.204620.27605@netcom.com> <1infasINN7dm@paprika.csv.warwick.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1infasINN7dm@paprika.csv.warwick.ac.uk>, pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland) says: > >Peter T. (petert@zikzak.apana.org.au)wrote : > >+> A few sources state that the Pleiadians no longer visit us because they >+> have "problems at home" that >+> they must attend to. >+> Does anybody know what these problems are supposed to be? >+> Thankyou >+> Peter T. > >Jeff (jeffp@netcom.com) wrote : > >+ I would be interested to hear about your sources. >+ >+ Jeff- To this question I have already posted an answer, which I posted on the 10th. Since your message was posted on the 8th {give or take a little for time zones} , it is interesting how it popped up after mine? Are you on a permanent link or temp? Anyway if you go back over the articles you should find it. > > I'd like to third that, and also add that there seems to be a >number of people who take the Pleidian message (from Channellers) to be >gospel. If there spirituality, philosophy or theology is in wide use at >home, then it may well be causing trouble. (Assuming that it is genuine.) >If so, then surely it is rather foolish to base one's life on it. > > Graeme. Asking a question on a particular subject does'nt have to mean that I beleive in it. To use another example: When reading a good thriller, aren't you interested in whether the butler did it? then again maybe you're not , buy it goes to some degree to explain my point of view. To be honest I'm not all that much interested in "new-age" stuff, choo choo trains and the like, but if I read someting {no matter how gullible or otherwise} and I'm left with a question that will not go away, I will ask it. Peter T. I'm just one of Deep Thought's sub-routines. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!netcomsv!netcomsv!hotcity!mlink!davidt From: davidt@mlink.UUCP (David T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: What do I do when... Message-ID: Date: 11 Jan 93 05:23:22 GMT Organization: the ModemLink Network, Long Island, New York Lines: 2 Just out of curiosity what should I or anyone else do if visited by an ET? Run, pull out the video camera, or submit to their requests??? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!cd.amdahl.com!jjs40 From: jjs40@cd.amdahl.com (John Sullivan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dimensional Thought-Lab Message-ID: <4aZm02um315n01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 11 Jan 93 16:43:35 GMT References: <141847.2B5093FC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 18 In article <141847.2B5093FC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, > JS> FTL drives? Time travel? I believe them not impossible. So why not build > JS> the damned things and see if they work? > >Hear, hear! People have been literally trying to do so in their garages and >barns and basements for some little while. Have any succeeded? Nothing but >anecdotes to tantalize us. > >One nuclear engineer (specialty: magnetic containment) in the NY area >seems to have made some progress, but unfortunately he died when his house >flew apart a few years back. Now think about this carefully. What would you *expect* to happen if you turned on an FTL drive in your basement? -- John Sullivan, Engineer/Computer Development. Email: jjs40@cd.amdahl.com Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA. Phone: (408)746-4688 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13487 alt.alien.visitors:12488 sci.skeptic:36824 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!uw-beaver!fluke!emery From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) Subject: Re: Satan Information. Message-ID: <1993Jan11.171910.301@tc.fluke.COM> Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73104@cup.portal.com> <73163@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:19:10 GMT Lines: 19 In article <73163@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Let me be truthful now and state that many of you are concerned with me >sending E-mail to Satan . Let me now confess that I realize that this person >who says he is Satan is not really Satan. The truth comes out. At least you came out in the open and made your confession. May God be merciful. >John Winston. -- John Emery I am an alien! emery@tc.fluke.COM 1 Peter 2:11, John 16:17 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12489 sci.physics:35338 sci.skeptic:36826 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.physics,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Subject: Anti-Gravity? Message-ID: <1993Jan11.170203.6312@netcom.com> Followup-To: poster Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:02:03 GMT Lines: 90 Has you ever heard of this effect before? Is there a patent related to this? Gravitational Propulsion Well, I have gotten this far in explaining some things to you. I might as well turn to my favorite subject of all -- gravitational propulsion. The best place to start is with the efforts of a personal acquaintance of mine who had the good fortune to meet in England -- Mr. J. R. Searl. His investigations into gravitational propulsion have proven to be quite revealing -- he's done it, and I want to tell you about it. In 1949, he was employed by the Midlands Board as an electronic fitter. He was very enthusiastic about the subject of electricity, though he had no formal education on the subject other than was required by his job. Unhindered by conventional ideas about electricity, he carried out his own investigation into the subject. During work on electrical motors and generators, he noticed that a small electromotive force (EMF) was produced by the spinning metal parts -- the negative toward the outside and the positive toward the rotational axis. In 1950, he experimented with rotating slip rings and measured a small EMF on a conventional meter. He also noticed that when the rings were spinning freely and no electrical current was taken, his hair bristled. His conclusions were that free electrons in the metal were spun out by centrifugal force being produced by the static field in the metal. He then decided to build a generator on the same principle. It had a segmented rotor disc, passing through electromagnets at its periphery. The electromagnets were energized from the rotor, and were intended to boost the EMF. By 1952, the first generator had been constructed and was about three feet in diameter. It was tested in the open by Searl and a friend. The armature was set in motion by a small engine. The device produced the expected electrical power, but at an unexpectedly high potential. At relatively low armature speeds a potential of the order of 10^5 volts was produced, as indicated by static effects on nearby objects. The really unexpected then occurred. While still speeding up, the generator lifted and rose to a height of about 50 feet above the ground, breaking the union between itself and the engine. Here it stayed for a while, still speeding up and surrounding itself with a pink glow. This indicated ionization of air at a much reduced pressure of about 10^-3 mm Hg. More interesting was the side effect, causing local radio receivers to go on by themselves. Finally, the whole generator accelerated at a fantastic rate and is thought to have gone off into space. Since that day, Searl and others have made some ten or more small flying craft, some of which have been similarly lost, and have developed a form of control. Larger craft have been built -- some 12 feet and two 30 feet in diameter. Once the machine has passed a certain threshold of potential voltage, the energy output exceeds the input. The energy output seems to be virtually limitless. We made some measurements when I was there, and as far as we could see, the estimated output is somewhere in the vicinity of 10^13 to 10^15 watts. Above what appears to be the threshold potential, some 10^13 volts, the generator and attached parts become inertia-free. There is also some "matter snatch" upon acceleration away from the ground, since it tends to take a little "turf" with it when it goes. Analyzing what is happening is fairly easy. What the generator is doing is placing a "stress" on the ambient space around it. The space breaks down to provide the magnetism to relieve the stress, but the energy by-product is absorbed by the generator, which reinforces the field. It should be noted at this point that only a very small amount of space fabric passes through the craft and an even smaller amount is converted for energy. However, I have noticed that small changes in etheric forces lead to large physical effects. It was aptly demonstrated and I was impressed. Recently, Mr. Searl had (1987) a brush with authorities, when he began simply generating his own power for his own house. Now he doesn't have a very large house, but the Utility Board didn't like the fact that they had lost their monopoly. Now he lives in Birmingham under an assumed name. Simple, eh? oard didn't like the fact that they had lost their monopoly. Now he lives in Birm -- ============================================================ "No creature that is intelligent and with the right values is an alien to me." John Salter ============================================================ Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com ============================================================ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Venus Message-ID: <73363@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 09:43:59 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <228.40599@tron.gun.de> <422800040@peg.pegasus.oz.au> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: I never did have the opportunity of meeting the lady from Venus who visited the UFO study meetings. My teacher Merle did and only said that she had very pretty eyes. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13490 alt.alien.visitors:12491 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2. Message-ID: <73367@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 11:05:37 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 67 Subject: Ancient Nuclear Blasts. Part 2. Here is some more information about evidence of very hot blasts of energy in the past. ....One of the oldest cities in the world is thought to be Catal Huyuk in southcentral Turkey. Paradoxically, the city appeared, according to first know evidence, to have been fully civilized and then, suddenly, to have died out. Archaeologists excavating portions of Catal Huyuk found thick layers of burned brick at one of the levels. The blocks had been fused together by such intense heat that its effects penetrated to a depth more than a meter below the level of the floors where it carbonized the earth, the skeletal remains of the dead, and the burial gifts that had been interred with them. All bacterial decay had been halted by the tremendous heat. When a large ziggurat in Babylonia was excavated, it gave the appearance of having been struck by a terrible fire that had split it down to its foundation. In other parts of the runs, large sections of brickwork had been scorched into a vitrified state. Several masses of brickwork had been rendered into a completely molten state. Even large boulders found in the vicinity of the ruins had been vitrified. The royal buildings at a north Syrian site had been burned so completely that the very core of the thick walls had bright red crumbling mud-bricks. The mud and lime wall plaster had become vitrified and basalt wall slabs had, in some areasa, actuallly melted. Between India's Ganges River and Rajmahal Hills are scorched ruins containing large masses of stone that have been fused and hollowed. Certain travelers who ventured to the heart of the Indian forests have reported ruins of cities in which the walls have become huge slabs of crystal, due to some intense heat. While exloring Death Valley in 1850, and adventurer, William Walker, claimed to have come upon the ruins of an ancient city. An end of a large building within the rubble had had its stones melted and vitrified. Today, of course, the area is a sterile disert; but earlier in this article we have already mentioned the evidence which indicates that Death Valley was once a tropical paradise, populate by an unknown race of giants. This is me JW talking now. While I was in Death Valley in Jan. 1993 I heard a lecture by the Ranger there and he stated that there was once a lake there that was about 600 to 700 feet deep, many years ago. Now back to our story. ...Walker stated that the entire region between the Gila and St. John rivers was spotted with ruins. Each of the ancient settlements had been burned out and vitrified in part by fire intense enough to have liquefied rock. Paving blocks and stone houses were split with huge cracks, as if seared by some monstrous sword of fire. The site of Sete Cidades (Seven Cities), Brazil, was first charted in 1928. The ruins located near the equator in the Province of Piaui, are, according to some researchers, a monstrous chaos as one might imagine Gomorrah to have appeared after God's judgment on the ancient city. The stones are dried out, destroyed, melted. Although no formal excavation has yet been conducted at the site, there is no geological explanation to answer how the lumps of melted rock appeared to dot the surrounding plains. In the holy books are lengends of many ancient peoples with innumerable accounts of wars between the Heavens and the Earth. Cosmic revolutions and civil wars were said to have rent or split the prehistoric worlds on serveral occasions. More than one Sodom and Gomorrah exploded so that"..the smoke rose up like that from a mighty furnace." References to the destruction of ancient cities by great blasts of neclear-type power and heat are found in the scriptures of the Hindu and the Hebrew and in the myths of people as diverse as the American Indian and the African. When we were in Peru investigating the massive ruins of such cities as Sacsahuaman and Machu Piccu and the fascinating villages that dot Lake Titicaca, certain Shamnans told us that they expect the return of the True Inkas, the giants of old, to occur in the very near future, quite likely by the end of this century. We can only wonder should such an odyssey of time and space occor whether the giants of super science in our prehistory will be favorably impressed with their scattered clony on Earth-Or if we may anticipate our being the prize in another war of the worlds? The End. John Winston., Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person? Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:49:54 -0600 Organization: University of Confused Thought Lines: 11 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <1it132INNogb@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <93007.184109U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <1993Jan8.014833.2814@netcom.com> Reply-To: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu Previously jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) wrote: >Dear Ethan, > >get a life. >Jeff- Dear Jeff, get a life. Scott- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Date: 11 Jan 93 12:20:59 GMT Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: ama.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] I've been reading this newsgroup for a while now and would like to introduce some form of debate for readers to pick up on (JW excluded). 1) Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, I have frequently come accross cattle mutilations. This is when cattle have parts of their bodies cut out very precisely and all their blood drained out of them. When scientists examined these mutilated bodies, not a single trace of blood was found either in the body or on the ground around the body. What I want to know is it possible to recreate this effect on earth? 2) Crop circles. All are hoaxes. Speaking as a hoaxer myself, I've found that the "experts" cannot tell a natural circle from a manmade one, so any research would be pointless. 3) Alien races. There are alien races, but how people on earth got their names is a mystery to me. "Greys" are another matter since some respected UFOlogists claim to have seen them (Tim Good, Bob Oeschler to name but two). I mean, the Centaurians from Alpha Centauri, I ask you! (For those that don't know, AC is a star, not a planet). 4) JW isn't mad, just a disinformer. Thankyou. The Cursor. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!msc118 Organization: Penn State University Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:57:18 EST From: Message-ID: <93011.195718MSC118@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Mailing list please. Lines: 5 Hey now! Please place me on your mailing list. I would be much obliged. Walk in peace, Mike Xref: icaen alt.sex:88829 misc.test:23327 alt.flame:49026 alt.fan.warlord:10711 alt.postmodern:4302 alt.religion.scientology:3946 alt.alien.visitors:12495 rec.pets.cats:20034 rec.motorcycles:82770 talk.bizarre:88284 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!news From: mfc1493@tamsun.tamu.edu (Ratboy) Newsgroups: alt.sex,misc.test,alt.flame,alt.fan.warlord,alt.postmodern,alt.religion.scientology,alt.alien.visitors,rec.pets.cats,rec.motorcycles,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: HAY U GUYS R ALL LUZERZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Date: 11 Jan 1993 19:59:05 -0600 Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1it8l9INNr1c@tamsun.tamu.edu> References: <1issvoINNojf@life.ai.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu >M0NTEY PYTH0N SUX CUZ IT D0ESNT MAKE ANY SENSE ????/ U D00DZ SHULD GET A LIFE !!!!!!!1 Is it that time of the month again? Once a month we get one of these...*sigh* Talk about getting a life... Plus, I don't listen to anyone who types in all caps and has no "O" key... >BTW BY THE WAY ADAM WEST HAS A NEW TV SERIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Joy. Tell it to alt.fan.adam.west or summat... I'm sure *they* would care. Ratboy aka WH0 THE HELL *IS* THIS L00ZER, ANYWAY? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person? Message-ID: <1993Jan12.013811.27301@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 12 Jan 93 01:38:11 GMT References: <93007.184109U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <1993Jan8.014833.2814@netcom.com> <1it132INNogb@ub.d.umn.edu> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Distribution: usa Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson Lines: 22 In article <1it132INNogb@ub.d.umn.edu> serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) writes: > >Previously jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) wrote: >>Dear Ethan, >> >>get a life. >>Jeff- > >Dear Jeff, > >get a life. >Scott- Dear Jeff, Scott, Ethan, George, Mick, Rod, The Woozle Whose Name Was Peanut, Richard Nixon, Bill, Steve, Angela, Jennifer, Jim, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, Will You Do The Fandango, Roger, Arthur, Eric, Kibo, Joey, Nigel, Bob, Rob, Hungadunga, Hungadunga, Hungadunga and McCormick, Er... I've forgotten what I want to say. Jason Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Anti-Gravity? Message-ID: <1993Jan12.022845.24819@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 12 Jan 93 02:28:45 GMT Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 34 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Robert, Not to be cynical, but this is nothing but a regurgitation of a variation of every story I have ever heard about J.R. SEARL. The story is almost identical every time I hear it. If your personal acquaintance sold you this information, I suggest you get your money back. It is availiable from a plethora of sources. At any rate I find that it is diffiCULT to get any decent information on him or his reasearch. It also appears he likes it that way. I put him in the same class as Otis T. Carr......if you have studied anti-gravitational systems at all, you know what & who I mean. I am really interested in this form of reasearch & have done quite a bit of experimenting myself.....no luck YET. As far as people like SEARL & others of his ilk .....PUT UP OR SHUT UP! No more excuses are necessary. Create the device & get down to your local TV station & promise the program director 25% of your profits, guaranteed the Government will not be able to shut you down. Don't take it personally, Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!aa429 From: aa429@Freenet.carleton.ca (Terry Ford) Subject: Mailing List Message-ID: <1993Jan12.032730.23062@freenet.carleton.ca> Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: aa429@Freenet.carleton.ca (Terry Ford) Organization: The National Capital Freenet Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:27:30 GMT Lines: 11 If there is a mailing list out tehre for thsi area, or anything dealing with UFO's, pelase add me to it! -- Terry Ford [aa429@freenet.carleton.ca]°°°°°°°°°°°°°°| 'Till Email responses are more than welcome!°°°°°°°°°°°°°°| Butter °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°| Flies! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!goofy!mumbo.apple.com!gallant.apple.com!kip2-46.apple.com!user From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ParaNet Press Release Message-ID: Date: 10 Jan 93 08:58:44 GMT References: <1hv7vsINNasq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Sender: news@gallant.apple.com Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 25 In article , graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) wrote: > > In article <1hv7vsINNasq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) writes... > > > >>The ParaNet UFO CONTINUUM is heard each Sunday evening at 9:00 > >>PM Mountain Time, 11:00 PM Eastern, via satellite Galaxy Six, > >>Channel 17, Audio Channel 7.5 MHz. > > > >What kind of equipment is needed to receive this? > > > >David > > A home satellite television system, capable of recieving C-band signals is > necessary. The audio frequency of a given tv "channel" may be adjusted, > hence the ability to receive radio. Isn't there a SW station that broadcasts some UFOnet stuff? ****************************************************************************** Rick Eames My Opinions Are My Own (not Apple's) athos@apple.com Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Boxer. ****************************************************************************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!aun.uninett.no!nuug!dhhalden.no!pc132.dhhalden.no!gunnarh From: gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming Message-ID: Lines: 28 Sender: news@dhhalden.no (Network News User) Nntp-Posting-Host: pc132 Organization: Ostfold College References: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:25:44 GMT In article anna@moxie.hou.tx.us (Anna Anderson) writes: >From: anna@moxie.hou.tx.us (Anna Anderson) >Subject: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming >Date: 10 Jan 93 19:45:27 GMT >Yesterday's "Unsolved Mysterys" showed a group of English scientists >in the Stonehenge area who set up cameras in an attempt to catch >crop circle formations. > >The camera caught some hoaxsters, but they alleged to have also filmed >some apparently genuine formations. All that was said was that they >were turning the film over to the scientific community for evaluaton, and >then later to the public. > >I'm unsure if this was an old rerun or not. Anyone have any further >information on this claim? Hey, gimme a break.. If there really was Aliens lurking around, I'm dure they'd have better things to do than drawiong funny little sirkles in the corn field. /\ | I didn't say this. | "When there's no / \ | My supervisor would | more room in hell, / \ | kill me if i did. | the dead will / (<>) \ |_________________________| walk the earth." / \ |Gunnar Horrigmo | /____________________\ |gunnarh@sofus.dhhalden.no| Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Re George Adamski-Fraud? Date: 12 Jan 1993 05:36:33 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 19 Message-ID: <1itld1INN3lg@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1ip1emINN1kc@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1993Jan10.185308.6967@netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1993Jan10.185308.6967@netcom.com>, rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) says: > >There is a book from the same time called: Space, Gravity and The >Flying Saucers. Published in 1955. The author is Leonard Cramp. >In this book he examines George Adamski's claims and, in particular, >makes a rigorous scientific examination of the Adamski photographs >of flying saucers. It was in this book that I first read about >the idea of the ships generating their own gravity from the >center of the craft so that the occupants don't suffer the affects >of rapid course changes. >-- What was Leonard Cramp's opinion of George Adamski? How detailed are his explanations on the technical side? In his point of view, did he agree/disagree that Adamski's technical drawrings might be real? Also can you provide me with the publisher of the above mentioned book, and where it may be purchased. Thankyou Peter T. I'm just one of Deep Thought's subroutines. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!botgc Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1993 16:35:56 EST From: Message-ID: <93011.163556BOTGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: newsletter Lines: 7 Due to the $15 fee that the bank is charging me to process foreign cheques, I am sorry to say that I can not accept any subscriptions to the "Nefilim Forum" after January 11, 1993 from outside of USA. The only way you still can subscribe is if you enclose US$ in an envelope, provided you wish to do so. Regards, Vladislav Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: BIGFOOTF SPACEMAN? Message-ID: <141879.2B5252F7@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Jan 93 08:48:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 2:2403/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41 Lines: 18 Hello Victor! Tuesday January 05 1993, Victor Volkman writes to All: VV> Even worse, you cannot "live" on Jupiter because there is no place to VV> "stand". It is not solid, it is gaseous. Not to mention gravity and VV> radiation are almost 100 times earth normal. Not at the physical dimension, but in light dimensions! Earth ist the only one planet in solar system with live on the physical dimension at this time. (I don't know about any other...) cheers Andre -- Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: i have a question (SO DO I !!) Message-ID: <141880.2B5252F8@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 8 Jan 93 09:05:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 2:2403/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41 Lines: 45 Hello sorgatz! Wednesday January 06 1993, sorgatz writes to All: >> Dear Folks: I should have stated that the man was one armed (he had one >> arm missing) in my last postings. The planet Venus is a very hot place >> and not hospitable to humans in the third dimension, but in the 4th >> dimension it is quite a nice place. Humans can visit there is their >> astral form and the space people can change a human's molecturlar >> structure so that we can exist there also. It takes about a two week >> conditioning period. John Winston. s> Aw Jeez...Winston...do you make this stuff up as you go or do you have a s> script writer run it up for you?? Just how, exactly, do you know this? I s> can't imagine a means (enclosures aside) of getting human life to survive s> the environment of Venus. 600+ degrees, poisonous atmosphere...c'mon..get s> real! "The Space People"...you sound as silly as George Adamski. Where's s> your proof? Got *anything* to back this twaddle up? John's information is correct! The 4th dimension is a light dimension and quite different from the 3rd (physical) dimension. Only the earth has beings in the physical dimension, some other planets in solar system hast beings on 4th and higher light dimensions including the sun (YES!)! Put your limitations of your consciousness away and you can understand! And you can comunicate with beings from other dimensions, too! It's very interesting and a wonderfull experience. The live in the universe is love and light and joy... Belive it or not... the time comes where you can't look away! Soon! Galactic greetings Andre +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | ********* FidoNet-Berlin, the light of the planet ********* | | Centre for interdimensional communication, telepathy and channeling | | -=< ParaNet-Sigma-Alpha >=-, the international UFO-Research-Network | | The bbs for people with contact - information exchange - lightworkers | | FidoNet : Andre Eichner, 2:2403/10 + 2:2403/777 + 2:2403/999 | | InterNet: andre@krypta.in-berlin.de | | BBS.....: ++49-30-7919269 14.400 bps, HST/V32Bis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ -- Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: <1993Jan12.110654.20616@crc.ac.uk> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK References: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:06:54 GMT Lines: 23 In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: > I've been reading this newsgroup for a while now and would like to introduce > some form of debate for readers to pick up on (JW excluded). > > > 3) Alien races. There are alien races, but how people on earth got their names > is a mystery to me. "Greys" are another matter since some respected UFOlogists > claim to have seen them (Tim Good, Bob Oeschler to name but two). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This sounds interesting. I have not heard the claim that Tim Good has seen 'Greys' himself before. Can you provide a reference? Thanks, Steve -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!coventry!coakley From: coakley@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Cpl.Flash) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston Message-ID: Date: 12 Jan 93 11:55:37 GMT References: <1993Jan1.231216.28162@bilver.uucp> <72922@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@cck.coventry.ac.uk (news user) Organization: Coventry University Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysk In article <72922@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship >I think of Hitler? I agree the Don would be a good moderator if you >think you need a moderator. >John Winston. Hey John, Seen as you have contacts with ol' Satan himself maybe you could get the big S to moderate us. ;-) -- --- Another year....another .sig "..NOW THE ONLY THING I CAN FEEL IS BETWEEN MY KNEES!!!......" Neds Atomic Dustbin, Flexible Head Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!moxie!anna From: anna@moxie.hou.tx.us (Anna Anderson) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming Organization: Home Improvement References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:34:46 GMT Lines: 14 gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) writes: >Hey, gimme a break.. If there really was Aliens lurking around, I'm dure >they'd have better things to do than drawiong funny little sirkles in the >corn field. I didn't claim there were aliens lurking around, moron. The point is, crop circles are real. They are caused by something natural. Or by something extraordinarly natural. All I was asking if someone knew about an alleged (scientific) film, and apparently you don't know anything. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12509 talk.religion.newage:13493 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Aliens and "Mary's Message to the World" Date: 12 Jan 1993 14:39:49 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 6 Message-ID: <1iul7lINN5lp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Where does Annie Kirkwood say she got this information from? Does she say Mary personally appeared to her, or did she do research with others who had visions? David Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13494 alt.alien.visitors:12510 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) Subject: I give up! (was Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2.) Message-ID: <1993Jan12.142503.14835@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73367@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 14:25:03 GMT Lines: 16 In article <73367@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Ancient Nuclear Blasts. Part 2. > Here is some more information about evidence of very hot blasts of energy >in the past. ... Speaking of hot blasts (of air, that is, as in that electronic windbag, John_-_Winston), I've finally had enough. Can somebody email me directions as to how to put all posts from J_-_W into my Kill File? I'm running rn on Ultrix 4.2 or 4.3, for what that's worth. Thanks-- --Tom Gorski Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!moxie!anna From: anna@moxie.hou.tx.us (Anna Anderson) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming Organization: Home Improvement References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:51:45 GMT Lines: 19 gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) writes: >Hey, gimme a break.. If there really was Aliens lurking around, I'm dure >they'd have better things to do than drawiong funny little sirkles in the >corn field. And by the way... It's idiots typically like you that laugh and make fun of what they don't understand that makes the public afraid to say anything about anything. Take your stupid mystic pyramid eye signature that's supposed to mean something significant and great, and go sit on it. > /\ | I didn't say this. | "When there's no > / \ | My supervisor would | more room in hell, > / \ | kill me if i did. | the dead will > / (<>) \ |_________________________| walk the earth." > / \ |Gunnar Horrigmo | >/____________________\ |gunnarh@sofus.dhhalden.no| Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!hsr.no!petro4.hsr.no!trondk_l From: trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no (Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Einstein unified Keywords: The title Message-ID: Date: 12 Jan 93 12:48:52 GMT Sender: news@hsr.no Organization: Rogaland University Centre Lines: 14 I'm back with the information I promised of the book about the UNIFIED FIELD THEORY: Title : Geometry of Einstein's unified field theory Author : Vclav Hlavaty Release : Autumn 1957 Pages : 341 Deweys decimal classification system: 530.142 Trond K. Lindanger - Your friend in NORWAY Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!hsr.no!petro4.hsr.no!trondk_l From: trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no (Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming Message-ID: Date: 12 Jan 93 12:57:58 GMT References: Sender: news@hsr.no Organization: Rogaland University Centre Lines: 17 In article gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) writes: >From: gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) >Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming >Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:25:44 GMT >Hey, gimme a break.. If there really was Aliens lurking around, I'm dure >they'd have better things to do than drawiong funny little sirkles in the >corn field. If you don't think it's "Aliens" fine! But do you have any better explanaitions? There are people claiming they have made the circles, but when they are asked to redraw some of them they can't do it... Trond K. Lindanger - Your friend in NORWAY Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13496 alt.alien.visitors:12514 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!nessie!pca18.li.umist.ac.uk!cluster From: cluster@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (General Access) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2. Message-ID: Date: 12 Jan 93 16:16:22 GMT References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73367@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Usenet News System) Organization: Manchester Computing Centre Lines: 72 In article <73367@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Ancient Nuclear Blasts. Part 2. > Here is some more information about evidence of very hot blasts of energy >in the past. > ....One of the oldest cities in the world is thought to be Catal Huyuk in >southcentral Turkey. Paradoxically, the city appeared, according to first >know evidence, to have been fully civilized and then, suddenly, to have died >out. > Archaeologists excavating portions of Catal Huyuk found thick layers of >burned brick at one of the levels. The blocks had been fused together by >such intense heat that its effects penetrated to a depth more than a meter >below the level of the floors where it carbonized the earth, the skeletal >remains of the dead, and the burial gifts that had been interred with them. >All bacterial decay had been halted by the tremendous heat. > When a large ziggurat in Babylonia was excavated, it gave the appearance of >having been struck by a terrible fire that had split it down to its >foundation. In other parts of the runs, large sections of brickwork had been >scorched into a vitrified state. Several masses of brickwork had been >rendered into a completely molten state. Even large boulders found in the >vicinity of the ruins had been vitrified. > The royal buildings at a north Syrian site had been burned so completely >that the very core of the thick walls had bright red crumbling mud-bricks. >The mud and lime wall plaster had become vitrified and basalt wall slabs >had, in some areasa, actuallly melted. > Between India's Ganges River and Rajmahal Hills are scorched ruins >containing large masses of stone that have been fused and hollowed. Certain >travelers who ventured to the heart of the Indian forests have reported >ruins of cities in which the walls have become huge slabs of crystal, due to >some intense heat. > While exloring Death Valley in 1850, and adventurer, William Walker, claimed >to have come upon the ruins of an ancient city. An end of a large building >within the rubble had had its stones melted and vitrified. > Today, of course, the area is a sterile disert; but earlier in this article >we have already mentioned the evidence which indicates that Death Valley was >once a tropical paradise, populate by an unknown race of giants. > This is me JW talking now. While I was in Death Valley in Jan. 1993 I heard >a lecture by the Ranger there and he stated that there was once a lake there >that was about 600 to 700 feet deep, many years ago. Now back to our story. >...Walker stated that the entire region between the Gila and St. John rivers >was spotted with ruins. Each of the ancient settlements had been burned out >and vitrified in part by fire intense enough to have liquefied rock. Paving >blocks and stone houses were split with huge cracks, as if seared by some >monstrous sword of fire. > The site of Sete Cidades (Seven Cities), Brazil, was first charted in 1928. >The ruins located near the equator in the Province of Piaui, are, according >to some researchers, a monstrous chaos as one might imagine Gomorrah to have >appeared after God's judgment on the ancient city. The stones are dried >out, destroyed, melted. Although no formal excavation has yet been conducted >at the site, there is no geological explanation to answer how the lumps of >melted rock appeared to dot the surrounding plains. > In the holy books are lengends of many ancient peoples with innumerable >accounts of wars between the Heavens and the Earth. Cosmic revolutions and >civil wars were said to have rent or split the prehistoric worlds on >serveral occasions. More than one Sodom and Gomorrah exploded so that"..the >smoke rose up like that from a mighty furnace." References to the >destruction of ancient cities by great blasts of neclear-type power and heat >are found in the scriptures of the Hindu and the Hebrew and in the myths of >people as diverse as the American Indian and the African. > When we were in Peru investigating the massive ruins of such cities as >Sacsahuaman and Machu Piccu and the fascinating villages that dot Lake >Titicaca, certain Shamnans told us that they expect the return of the True >Inkas, the giants of old, to occur in the very near future, quite likely by >the end of this century. We can only wonder should such an odyssey of time >and space occor whether the giants of super science in our prehistory will >be favorably impressed with their scattered clony on Earth-Or if we may >anticipate our being the prize in another war of the worlds? >The End. >John Winston., what does this guy take? DMA?? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13497 alt.alien.visitors:12515 sci.skeptic:36875 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Answers. Message-ID: <73423@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 09:04:36 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 12 Dear Friends: Someone asked what you should do if you are contacted by and E.T. The answer is all the above. Only about 5 per cent of the aliens are going to have you for dinner. In most cases a good rule to follow is to not fool around with anything that has scales (Reps) and I don't mean republicans. By their fruits shall ye know them is still a good rule. Be a fruit inspector. If you really want to get complicated, contact your higher self and bring in the information or question about whether the E.T. is good or not into your head, let it go into your solar plexus and see if you get a good feeling. If it is not safe for you to contact the space people you will feel a weezy feeling and run to the nearest exit. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13500 alt.alien.visitors:12516 alt.religion.kibology:5695 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Where's Kibo? Message-ID: <73424@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 09:16:04 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: According to my calculations the Great Kibo should be returning soon. I hope he posts his paper that says everbody who sponsors him. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13501 alt.alien.visitors:12517 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cwatters From: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters) Subject: Re: I give up! (was Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2.) Message-ID: <1993Jan12.175149.23935@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73367@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan12.142503.14835@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:51:49 GMT Lines: 24 In article <1993Jan12.142503.14835@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) writes: > >Can somebody email me directions as to how to put all posts from >J_-_W into my Kill File? I'm running rn on Ultrix 4.2 or 4.3, for >what that's worth. Ok, here's the scoop. Get into rn, and get to a.a.v. Enter k As the last line in the killfile, add /John_-_Winston/h:=:j Exit your editor (and save). This will scan the header for all references to John_-_Winston, display the subject lines, and junk the articles. -Coyt Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13503 alt.alien.visitors:12518 sci.skeptic:36884 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: They Made Us. Message-ID: <73429@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 10:58:50 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 66 Subject: Who Made Us? Are you so pretty is pitiful? Are so handsome that you have to beat the girls off with a stick? If you are then you had better not read the following information because it might burst your bubble. Here is some information from a conbined intelligence of some space people, so hang on to your hats here we go;.....Creating humans involved much more than genetics. A highly developed symbiotic relationship between a shapely ape and a very different kind of life that is best described by you word "soul," used in the religionis sense, was part of that process. This "soul" does not have a physical presence on your level of awaremess, and it is not addicted to time. It is your guarantee of immortality because it survives the death of you body with memory, personality, and the ability to perceive intact. "Humanity" is a part of the growth cycle of a very complex galactic consciousness. Because you survive bodily death and continue to grow, and because that growth involes forming highly perfected symbiotic relationships, "humanity" may be seen as a training ground in which intelligent entities are prepared and made fit for unions so intimate that the components function with a single consciousness. Though you can't take you physical possessions with you when you shed your bodies, there are things which you can take with you, the most valuable of which are wisdom, honor, and the capacity to love. These are qualities which will stand you in good stead in any relationship, and those of you who fail to acquire these virtues are destined to repeat performances in human form until you do acquire them. If there is a hell, it is right here on Earth, it is of your own making, and you probably wouldn't have it any other way! All of this information is being supplied in the hope that the perspective it offers will lead to the insights and actions necessary to prevent your premature destruction, at this time, about all we can do is aim you in the right direction and point out a few things you seem to have missed. The reasons you will be in such demand are your hands, your intelligence, and your adaptability. That movement where by you place your thumb across the palm of you hand may not seem like much, but that simple movement has made you by far the most successful life form in the history of your planet. Your hands and intelligence coupled with you abilty to adapt physically to a wide rang of temperatures, pressure, and atmospheric compositions will enable human communities, working in symbiosos with other intelligent species, to virtualy rule the galaxy. Ever since Darwin, your scientists have been looking for the "mission link" between humans and apes. They haven't found it yet, and they won't, at least not on this planet. Humanity did not evolve on Earth. Thousands of generations of your ancestors lived and died in laboratories all over the galaxy. During the breeding, mothers raised not their own children, but their descendants thousand of generations removed. Because so many genertions lived and died in aqueous solutions in which hair was an impediment, humans gradually lost most of their body hair. When we were breeding you, we were not trying to produce a graceful, highly specialized life form. Just look at your bodies. You are full of loose ends and trailing pieces that no finished animal would have hanging about. You got up on your hind legs so quickly that you haven;t had time to pull yourselves together, and as a result you are subject to a wide variety of common physical ailments seldom found in other animals. The lenses of your eyes, your type of teeth, the bones in you necks, the way your stomachs are now slung, your abdominal walls, the veins in your legs, and the arches in your feet are so prone to malfunction that they must seem seriously flawed from a design standpoint. Did you ever see a cat with tonsilitis, appendicitis, hernia, hemorrhoids, varicose veins, fallen arches, or ingrown toenails? What other animals need glasses, dentures, bras, athletic supporters, cervical collars, back braces, trusses, and protective foot coverings. The way your arms dangle and swing uselessly when you walk, and you need for clothing to maintain body heat in most Earthly climates are further indications of hybridization and lack of evolutionay polish. End Part 1. Source of Information: UFO Universe, Winter 1991, page 45. This is me JW talking now. If these space people are so smart why didn't they do a better job when they made us? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13504 alt.alien.visitors:12519 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Rama. Message-ID: <73432@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 11:39:34 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 38 Subject: Rama. In the past I have mentioned that Shirley MacLain's friend who showed her around in South America was called David and he had a space person friend who called herself Rama. Here is some more of the conversations with Rama;... David: What is your world that you come from called? Rama: The Kingdom of the Mount; it's where I've lived for more than 304 of your terrestrial years. In this solar system, it's called Ganymede, one of the moons of Jupiter. It's about the size of your moon. Our terrain is very much like the one we're on right now; the atmosphere is about the same - very thin oxygen, with high, steep mountains covered with ice, as is the case here. The topography is also very similar.. "Incredible. I know about the mooms of Jupiter but it seems unlikely that life exists on one of them." We have extremely cold weather compared to your temperatures, but for us, these temperatures are comfortable. What about your way of life - do you get married? Do you hAve movie theaters? Is it a paradise? We live in the valleys, surrounded by the icy peaked mountains, in small complexes, what you would call villages. Similar to the ones you see arond here. Ganymede is very volcanic. Volcanoes are our source of energy, and we use that powerful enery for our technology. The same way you usaully find large cities like New York, Paris, London, and Rome clustered near large bodies of water, our villages and industrial centers are near volcanoes. They are our source of life. We hav no oceans or large rivers on our planet. We get our water from the melting ice mixed with the volcanic heat; it's very similar to the medicinal waters you find right here. Is the volcanic energy used for heat as well? Yes, the volcanoes contain a great deal of thermal energy, which we use to maintain healthy temperatures. Since we have not rivers or oceans, and extreme temperatures, we have no animals on our palnet, only meneral, vegetable and human forms of life. In our world we've adapted to this, we don;t need animals for food. Besides, eating and absorbing the ananas and anionites of animals puts mico-organisms into our systems, creating toxins in the body. Tht where you earth inhabvitants gety you common cold and other illnesses. Source of Information: Date Wtth The Gods by Charles A. Silva page 163. End Part 1. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston Message-ID: <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <72922@cup.portal.com> <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:25:57 GMT Lines: 86 In article <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) writes: >In article <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> U37460@uicvm.uic.edu writes: >>In article <72922@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com says: >>> >>>Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship >>>I think of Hitler? I agree the Don would be a good moderator if you >>>think you need a moderator. >>>John Winston. >>This will be the one and only time that I respond to your crap. You must >>understand that the use of Internet is a priviledge and not a right. >>When you start posting under the guise that it is your right to post, >>you are wrong. If you would like to go out on the streets and preach >>to the world your 3 line messages, fine, that is your right. But you >>must consider your use of Internet a priviledge and behave accordingly. >>And if those who want a moderated group want one, they may create one. >>You John Winston are under no obligation to partake in the discussions there >>and can freely post here(although it is not a right). >>Ethan Haslett >>smoke... smoke.. flame off > >Foolish human. Adn why should John's postings incite you to such >anger? Psychologically, many researchers state that: the state >of emotional attachment can only come about within the >perceptive mechanism of the recipient [you] if the recipient >subconciously finds what had incited him to anger to be true and >yet still unaccepted by that recipient. Actually, I just skip em, and read the short ones. But as I either use telnet or login at 9600 baud, it does not waste much time. But for those users using 1200/2400 baud modems, it may take a fair extra amount of time to go around, and if they are paying for connect time by the hour... >I do not say that I agree with all of John's 1-3 liner postings. >John...they waste bandwidth. We all agree that if you have >something new and interesting to report we would like to see >it..otherwise....dont waste the space please. > >BUT!!! I fully defend John's First Amendment Right to speak his >piece as he pleases. The Usenet IS NOT a priviledge. The Usenet >is a slightly anarchisticly free forum within which all ideas >can be freely interchanged. And furthermore...I defy anyone here >to conclusively prove that it is indeed John Winston who posts >each and everytime....it can't be done. It is John Winston's >account....but due to the nature of our current computer >technology, there is no way to prove without doubt that no one >else had logged into John's account as John Winston. Well, there -were- all those Gary Stollman clones, and some of them were defective. It is not impossible that some of them got together and thought this up. John's posts are quite distinctive. If anyone thinks that they can impersonate him I would be interested in seeing it. We could set up an anonymous forwarding mechanism and then vote. The winner could ge awarded the kIBO award of valor (by earths official spokesman, no less). Wonder whatever happened to Gary Stollman? I kinda miss his posts. They were works of art. >You sir, are wasting as much if not more time by starting >flames. And by responding, you are fanning the flames. > If you do not like what anyone posts...use your kill >file. That is what it is for. Not everyone has a newsreader, or a connection which supports a killfile. > But instead you choose to rant and >rave like a 5 year old child screaming for his candy bar...I now >will use my kill file on you as you have wasted my time. > >Len >-- >*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* >The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very >use of the law is the instrument of illegality. > -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Rich payner@kibo.netcom.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming Message-ID: <1993Jan12.180810.6815@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 12 Jan 93 18:08:10 GMT References: Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson Lines: 26 In article trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no (Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94) writes: >In article gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) writes: >>From: gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) >>Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming >>Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:25:44 GMT > > >>Hey, gimme a break.. If there really was Aliens lurking around, I'm dure >>they'd have better things to do than drawiong funny little sirkles in the >>corn field. > > >If you don't think it's "Aliens" fine! But do you have any better >explanaitions? There are people claiming they have made the circles, but >when they are asked to redraw some of them they can't do it... > Er..yes they can. I seen an article that sez they can. Think it was "Newsweek" or "Scientific American". Can't remember which. Probably "Newsweek". I don't think "Scientific American" would waste paper on crop circles. But they demonstrated their technique, which was to use the huge board they were dragging around in circles to eliminate their tracks inside the circle, and just being really careful when they walked through the rest of the field. It was pretty neat. Jason Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre Message-ID: <1993Jan12.193418.1801@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:34:18 GMT Lines: 24 So I saw Steve's .sig and have wondered for a long time why we think Stollman is a fruit: Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. I guess this is directed to Steve, but I wanted to do it publicly: How's it going cloning human beings? I attended a Berkeley symposium put on my Michael Lindeman's 2020 group and one subject that got brought up was that one of the biggest US government projects at Los Alimos and Larence Labs is the mapping of the human genome. The implications of this are enormous. Clone solders, make robots that do anythink you like (slaves) or create look-alikes for security so nobody knows which Prez is the real thing... combine that idea with the report from Bob Lazar that the greys refer to humans as containers, and the fact that the government is inot some really esoteric stuff like installing the human spirit into clones, and you have some strong drink to think about. Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: BIGFOOTF SPACEMAN? Message-ID: <1993Jan12.193625.2098@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <141879.2B5252F7@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:36:25 GMT Lines: 28 In article <141879.2B5252F7@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) writes: >Hello Victor! > >Tuesday January 05 1993, Victor Volkman writes to All: > > VV> Even worse, you cannot "live" on Jupiter because there is no place to > VV> "stand". It is not solid, it is gaseous. Not to mention gravity and > VV> radiation are almost 100 times earth normal. > >Not at the physical dimension, but in light dimensions! >Earth ist the only one planet in solar system with live on the physical dimension at this time. (I don't know about any other...) > >cheers > Andre Right on Andre. Greeting to my german brother... Can you say: LIGHT WITHOUT HEAT? In knew that you could. Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person? Message-ID: <1993Jan12.193309.1574@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Jan6.193721.20654@netcom.com> <93006.170545U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:33:09 GMT Lines: 32 In article <93006.170545U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> writes: >In article <1993Jan6.193721.20654@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) >says: >>Cost is about $20/month, currently. They charge a lot for storage >>however, which means that if you get a lot of mail, the cost can go >>way up. They also have a large PD/Shareware library and a graphics >Hmm. Very interesting. So if John Winston gets a large amount of mail, >his monthly fees would skyrocket? Assuming he is not wealthy in the extreme >this might be a way for someone to annoy him! Or quiet him. Comments? I once mailed myself about a megabyte of split uuencoded GIF (just one) and was shocked to pay a $20 storage fee next month. I think that this is a bit unethical. It will also waste far more net bandwith than John's postings. I do not think that this is a great idea. >>library which includes lots of GIFS etc... >> >>Rich >> >>payner@netcom.com >> >Ethan Haslett >u37460@uicvm.uic.edu Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13505 alt.alien.visitors:12525 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!chrisb From: chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus) Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Nntp-Posting-Host: lynx.ps.uci.edu Message-ID: In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:02:49 PST Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Organization: Dept. of Physics, Univ. of California, Irvine Lines: 79 References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73242@cup.portal.com> Date: 12 Jan 93 20:47:54 GMT In article <73242@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: Subject: Mitchell Caverns and Dorn Underground Cavern. If a person is looking for the Underground City near Cadiz and Danby, Calif. it might be good to know a little more about that general area. Before hearing about the city I had heard about a person by the name of Mr. Dorn who had found a cave opening going down into a mountain that has a name that sounds like Mount Keoweef. It's over close to Cima, Calif between Barstow and Needles, Calif. Dorn was doing some prospecting when he went into the moutain and found a large inner area with a large open area that had a high ceiling. There was a small stream running through the cavern and he panned out some gold, brought it out and sold it. He then organized a group to develope the area but something happened and someone blew up the entrance a little ways down in the cave entrance. A large company was said to have bought the rights to the cavern and sealed it off. They also put some guards around the area to keep people out for a few years, but it has never been opened up. You should also =================================== This story is nothing new. Check out any good book on the local history on the Mojave Desert and look for references to Crystal Cave. It's mentioned in most of the "lost mine" stories. Also as a point of information, this site is not between Barstow and Needles, but between Barstow and Searchlight, NV. After finding the "river of gold" Dorn (I can't verify the name right now) blew up the entrance himself so others couldn't find it. He couldn't raise the money for further development and thus end of story. Another company owns the site currently and is not disclosing any more information. File it somewhere with the Oak Island stuff. =================================== realize that more UFO are seen in this area than any other place I have even been in. =================================== No more than any other area. I've been camping and hiking around in the Mojave for 11 years and haven't seen anything that I would consider to be "unidentified." Bear in mind also that the 29 Palms Marine Station, Ft. Irwin, China Lake Naval Station, and Nellis AFB are all in the area and conduct weapons testing. =================================== A US government ownes a cavern that takes people into it and is called Mitchell Caverns and it is in that general area. =================================== This is incorrect. Mitchell Caverns is a state park and thus under the jurisdiction of the State of California. The East Mojave Scenic Area is under Federal control. BLM takes care of everything else. Also, Mitchell Caverns is about 35 air miles (50 by road) away from the Crystal Caverns site. I've been inside Mitchell Caverns and haven't seen anything too out of the ordinary. ================================== My friend Marge Bell used to live just south of the filling station at Cadiz. Once she was going to bury her dead pet dog and proceeded to dig a hole just a few feet south of her house. She dug down a foot or two and then hit a hole. She then took a 25 feet garden hose and put a weight on the end of the hose and let it down into the hole. She couldn't reach the bottom so she put on another 25 feet piece of hose and still couldn't reach bottom. It scared her so much that she covered up the hose and didn't tell any one else about it. She thought the whole area might fall in and take her with it. I have a feeling that the hole is part of an underground cavern that would go for miles and maybe connect to the underground city, Mitchell Caverns and Dorn's Cavern. Marge Bell has now moved away to 29 Palms, Calif. Her husband Mr. Bell died, her next husband died but she said that her husbands always died with a smile on their face. John Winston. =============================== Hey, that's great...... Chris -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Barrus - P.O. Box 5115 - Irvine - CA - 92716 - chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu Sacred cows make the best hamburger - Abbie Hoffman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!dementia From: dementia@cwis.unomaha.edu (Diane Atkinson) Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:41:57 GMT Lines: 33 u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >2) Crop circles. All are hoaxes. Speaking as a hoaxer myself, I've found that >the "experts" cannot tell a natural circle from a manmade one, so any research >would be pointless. "All are hoaxes" is a rather sweeping statement. I can honestly say there are those that *are* hoaxes, but there are those where it is not so easily dismissed. I took a class here at UNO, and UFOs as well as crop circles were discussed. The information that was presented was scientific research of grasses and grains affected by the circles. Hoaxes were obvious, as crops were damaged and broken--no further growth occurred. However, oddities were present in some circles, namely, grasses were not broken and kept growing long after the formation of the circle. These grasses could even later be harvested. Also noted were oddities occurring on growth nodes of the grains that could be replicated--but only if stuck in a microwave and nuked. There is no known technology that can cause sudden heat induced changes in plant growth nodes while at the same time causing a bending but not breaking of the same grasses. So it is unknown exactly what causes these sorts of crop circles. I just don't think all are people circling around with a board. That just couldn't cause the above listed oddities. Some have said that the heat from a UFO, as well as its strange sort of effects on gravity could cause such oddities. A theory, but not proven. -- *"Everything under the sun LA!* Diane Atkinson* *is in tune and the sun is / * dementia@cwis.unomaha.edu* *eclipsed by the moon." ___^o^___* "Jafar, Jafar, he's our man.* * --Pink Floyd * If he can't do it, GREAT!!"* Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13506 alt.alien.visitors:12527 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2. Message-ID: <1993Jan12.221602.19684@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:16:02 GMT Lines: 12 Foolish person includes 500 line reprint just to add his one liner... >>John Winston., > > > what does this guy take? DMA?? That's MDA. And, no, he doesn't. He just plagiarizes people who do... Try cutting the followup down to a few lines next time... -Max Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13507 alt.alien.visitors:12528 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!rjk From: rjk@world.std.com (robert j kolker) Subject: Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2. Message-ID: Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73367@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:19:54 GMT Lines: 7 It was those agressors from Atlantis that did it. Conan the Librarian -- "If you can't love the Constitution, then at least hate the Government" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!marlin.jcu.edu.au!nuntius From: Anne Douglass Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie Message-ID: <1993Jan12.233918.4617@marlin.jcu.edu.au> Sender: news@marlin.jcu.edu.au (USENET News System) Organization: James Cook University X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <1ika4iINNc7k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:39:18 GMT Lines: 26 >Path: marlin.jcu.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!agate!usen >et.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6 >From: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors >Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie >Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:29:06 GMT >Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) >Lines: 5 >Message-ID: <1ika4iINNc7k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu > > >If anyone cares, I knew several Australian expatriots in Japan, and >each mentioned at one time or another that the word was spelled >"Aussie" but pronounced "Ozzie." >-- It's true! I *AM* one! Anne Townsville Queensland AUSTRALIA 13 Jan 1993 - HAPPY NEW YEAR Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!marlin.jcu.edu.au!nuntius From: Anne Douglass Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie Message-ID: <1993Jan12.234029.4745@marlin.jcu.edu.au> Sender: news@marlin.jcu.edu.au (USENET News System) Organization: James Cook University X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <1ika4iINNc7k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:40:29 GMT Lines: 26 >Path: marlin.jcu.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!agate!usen >et.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6 >From: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors >Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie >Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:29:06 GMT >Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) >Lines: 5 >Message-ID: <1ika4iINNc7k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu > > >If anyone cares, I knew several Australian expatriots in Japan, and >each mentioned at one time or another that the word was spelled >"Aussie" but pronounced "Ozzie." >-- It's true! I *AM* one! Anne Townsville Queensland AUSTRALIA 13 Jan 1993 - HAPPY NEW YEAR Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!marlin.jcu.edu.au!nuntius From: Anne Douglass Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie Message-ID: <1993Jan12.234312.4889@marlin.jcu.edu.au> Sender: news@marlin.jcu.edu.au (USENET News System) Organization: James Cook University X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:43:12 GMT Lines: 28 >Path: marlin.jcu.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!agate!usen >et.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6 >From: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors >Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie >Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:29:06 GMT >Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) >Lines: 5 >Message-ID: <1ika4iINNc7k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu > > >If anyone cares, I knew several Australian expatriots in Japan, and >each mentioned at one time or another that the word was spelled >"Aussie" but pronounced "Ozzie." >-- Yes, it's absolutely true! I *am* one! Anne Townsville Queensland AUSTRALIA 13 Jan 1993 - HAPPY NEW YEAR Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!marlin.jcu.edu.au!nuntius From: Anne Douglass Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie Message-ID: <1993Jan12.235404.5355@marlin.jcu.edu.au> Sender: news@marlin.jcu.edu.au (USENET News System) Organization: James Cook University X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <1ika4iINNc7k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:54:04 GMT Lines: 3 Oops! Seems to have been posted twice! Told me it didn't work the first time. Never mind, Mac - I forgive you. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13508 alt.alien.visitors:12533 sci.skeptic:36906 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: They Made Us. Message-ID: <1993Jan12.234832.4059@netcom.com> Date: 12 Jan 93 23:48:32 GMT Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan12.234832.4059 References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73429@cup.portal.com> Organization: BeHereNow Lines: 9 Gosh John, You have outdone yourself with this post... Thanks so much for posting it, very interesting. I feel sorry for those with you in thier kill files. Jeff- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13509 alt.alien.visitors:12534 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!batcomputer!reed!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Message-ID: <1993Jan12.234038.3129@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73242@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:40:38 GMT Lines: 22 In article chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus) writes: > >No more than any other area. I've been camping and hiking around in the >Mojave for 11 years and haven't seen anything that I would consider to be >"unidentified." Bear in mind also that the 29 Palms Marine Station, Ft. Irwin, >China Lake Naval Station, and Nellis AFB are all in the area and conduct >weapons testing. Bear in mind that China Lake and Nellis are full of underground bases that local construction workers are reporting sightings of aliens working with scientists at the lower levels. Source: 2020 Group, Michael Lindemann - Several eyewitness reports were broadcast (the individuals themselves were taped) on KPFA Berkeley radio station. jeff- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: John Winston=fucking wanker Message-ID: Date: 12 Jan 93 14:56:38 GMT Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 1 Nntp-Posting-Host: wea.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Title says it all really. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (gvb@acd4.acd.com) Subject: Refferals... Message-ID: <1993Jan12.211900.741@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:19:00 GMT Lines: 11 I am in need of contact from some people that are having ongoing abductions and are willing to allow me to install some equipment that will eventually lead to exposure of the cause and development of technologies to stop the abductions. Interested parties e-mail or phone to below listed address/#. Gregg. -- Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research 812-442-5354 (Voice)(24 hours/7 days) or e-mail me at gvb@acd4.acd.com All information will be strictly confidential. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13512 alt.alien.visitors:12537 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!doug.cae.wisc.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sgil From: sgil@netcom.com (Steve Gilbert) Subject: Re: I give up! (was Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2.) Message-ID: <1993Jan13.012459.10310@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: <1993Jan12.142503.14835@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:24:59 GMT Lines: 25 Tom Gorski (gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu) wrote: : In article <73367@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: : >Subject: Ancient Nuclear Blasts. Part 2. : > Here is some more information about evidence of very hot blasts of energy : >in the past. : ... : : Speaking of hot blasts (of air, that is, as in that electronic windbag, : John_-_Winston), I've finally had enough. : : Can somebody email me directions as to how to put all posts from : J_-_W into my Kill File? I'm running rn on Ultrix 4.2 or 4.3, for : what that's worth. Can't help you there, but... how about we conduct a letter writing campaign to 'cs@cup.portal.com', Portals' Customer Service E-Mail address, complaining that one of their customers is posting off-topic articles that are a complete waste of bandwidth to the world at large? Such tactics have recently been successful in other groups for reining in similar nuisance posters. Even a cursory glance through the back- articles in this group would easily support such a contention. -- Steve Gilbert (sgil@netcom.com) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12538 alt.conspiracy:21705 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti From: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) Subject: NO! I AM NOT A NAZI! Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:56:52 GMT Lines: 5 I am told that some malicious idiot is posting malicious slander on UFO Fido-Net that I am a Nazi slitting Jews throats. I am Jewish and very Anti-Nazi. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12539 talk.religion.newage:13513 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: Aliens and "Mary's Message to the World" Date: 13 Jan 1993 01:31:06 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1ivrcrINN7c0@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <93011.093520JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <93011.093520JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu>, says: > >This book, "Mary's Message to the World" is by Annie Kirkwood and she talks >about the role the aliens will play in the upcoming earth changes. She also >states how our government has been covering up the information regarding the >aliens and also the changes that are occuring in our solar system, even now. Could you summarise and post on the above? Might be interesting. Thankyou. Peter T. Xref: icaen soc.culture.china:71075 alt.alien.visitors:12540 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: SOCCER Date: 13 Jan 1993 01:33:22 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 13 Message-ID: <1ivrh2INN7c0@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article , gbc@brahms.udel.edu (Baochun Ge) says: > > >Hellow Guys: > > I know Chinese soccer team beat Poland Olympic and >Moscow teams 5:1 and 3:1 seperately in Singapore. But who >won the champain after all, China or South Korea ? Information >much appreciated. How did this get in here? Hmm...maybe someones finger slipped. Peter T. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What do I do when... Date: 13 Jan 1993 01:36:51 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 8 Message-ID: <1ivrnjINN7c0@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article , davidt@mlink.UUCP (David T.) says: > >Just out of curiosity what should I or anyone else do if visited by an ET? Run, >pull out the video camera, or submit to their requests??? Pull out your video camera, run {fast} , point camera backwards. Peter T. Xref: icaen alt.flame:49199 alt.religion.scientology:3956 alt.alien.visitors:12542 talk.bizarre:88430 Newsgroups: alt.flame,alt.religion.scientology,alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!watmath!undergrad.math.waterloo.edu!napier.uwaterloo.ca!dagbrown From: dagbrown@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Brown) Subject: Re: HAY U GUYS R ALL LUZERZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Message-ID: Sender: news@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu Organization: University of Waterloo References: <1issvoINNojf@life.ai.mit.edu> <1it8l9INNr1c@tamsun.tamu.edu> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:42:58 GMT Lines: 21 In article <1it8l9INNr1c@tamsun.tamu.edu> mfc1493@tamsun.tamu.edu (Ratboy) writes: >>M0NTEY PYTH0N SUX CUZ IT D0ESNT MAKE ANY SENSE ????/ U D00DZ SHULD GET A LIFE !!!!!!!1 > >Is it that time of the month again? >Once a month we get one of these...*sigh* >Talk about getting a life... >Plus, I don't listen to anyone who types in all caps and has no "O" key... > >>BTW BY THE WAY ADAM WEST HAS A NEW TV SERIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Joy. Tell it to alt.fan.adam.west or summat... >I'm sure *they* would care. > >Ratboy aka WH0 THE HELL *IS* THIS L00ZER, ANYWAY? > Look, guys, I just caught me a frosh! Mail the man a Jargon file! -- Dave Brown dagbrown@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Phone: (519) 747-5413 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13514 alt.alien.visitors:12543 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ncar!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Message-ID: <1993Jan13.034807.13044@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 13 Jan 93 03:48:07 GMT References: <73242@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan12.234038.3129@netcom.com> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson Lines: 11 Heeey! Is this any relation to Mike Dorn, of Infocom and therefore "Zork" fame? Have we discovered the Great Underground Empire at last? How excessive can you get, Dimwit Flathead???? Break out the zorkmids, the brass lanterns and the elvish swords of great antiquity! -- **************************************************************************** "Generally, things have gone about as far as they can possibly go when things have got about as bad as they can reasonably get."--Tom Stoppard Jason D. Corley (aka corleyj@gas.uug.arizona.edu) Physics, Lunacy, etc. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13515 alt.alien.visitors:12544 alt.religion.kibology:5704 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Where's Kibo? Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <73424@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:21:40 GMT Lines: 19 In article <73424@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: According to my calculations the Great Kibo should be >returning soon. I hope he posts his paper that says everbody who >sponsors him. >John Winston. I'm back_-_from my vacation at the_-_moment, but unfortunately I'm really really busy, and don't_-_have time to reply to all the backlog of mail that I've been_-_accumulating, etc.; I'm even limiting myself to just reading a couple of_-_these darn groups. (Got a one-week deadline on a certain project, see...) Oh, yes, I've got the tape; thanks, John_-_ (and thanks, Betty.) Haven't had time to watch it at the moment, but ASAP I'll dupe it and pass it on to the next lucky winner. You won't sue if I copy it, will you? _-_K. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12545 alt.religion.kibology:5707 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:33:34 GMT Lines: 42 [alt.alien.visitors] In article <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >In article <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) writes: >> >>Foolish human. Adn why should John's postings incite you to such >>anger? Psychologically, many researchers state that: the state >>of emotional attachment can only come about within the >>perceptive mechanism of the recipient [you] if the recipient >>subconciously finds what had incited him to anger to be true and >>yet still unaccepted by that recipient. > >Actually, I just skip em, and read the short ones. But as I either use >telnet or login at 9600 baud, it does not waste much time. But for those >users using 1200/2400 baud modems, it may take a fair extra amount of >time to go around, and if they are paying for connect time by the hour... I ordered a V.32 modem this week just so I'll be able to post faster than you can read it. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. >>I do not say that I agree with all of John's 1-3 liner postings. >>John...they waste bandwidth. We all agree that if you have Bandwidth is *meant* to be used up. That's what it's for. I sense this person is one of those who tells people not to sit on the couch because it will wear out the plastic slipcovers. >and thought this up. John's posts are quite distinctive. If anyone >thinks that they can impersonate him I would be interested in seeing >it. We could set up an anonymous forwarding mechanism and then vote. >The winner could ge awarded the kIBO award of valor (by earths >official spokesman, no less). John_-_Winston is an actual person. I just took a quick look at the first few minutes of the tape of one of his shows, and he's clearly labelled. He looks sort of like a young Ed Koch, only with facial expressions. He is not an AI program as I am, though of course there is a chance that he may be a vinyl puppet opperated by some evil alien version of Jim Henson. When I have time to watch the tape I'll let you folks know if I can see any strings on him. I expect he's human, though. -- K. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13516 alt.alien.visitors:12546 sci.skeptic:36925 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Present Lives. Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:25:54 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan13.042554.7607@bilver.uucp> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73326@cup.portal.com> Lines: 41 In article <73326@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: This thing about reincarnation really gets complicated. >I know a lady by the name of Sister Thedra who is aware of another >person who she also is who is a middle aged housewife and another >lady who she also is who comes from Venus and attends UFO study >meetings. In that body she is young and very pretty. To sum it up she >is aware of three bodies that she is in. >John Winston. Then you must be speaking with the DEAD. Sister Thedra passed on last year. If you do not believe this, then you are cordially invited to write to: ASSK, Inc 2675 W. Hwy 89A, Suite 454 Sedona, Arizona 86336 (602) 282-3421 You are way behind the times John..why do I get the "vibes" that you are some lonely old man sitting at the 'puter with nothing to do? :} BTW..call up and ask Ted what he thinks about George Green's "Hatonn" Hehe..be sure and hold the phone away from your ear. Anyone who does research KNOWS that Richard Miller (aka Phoenix Project - Jack Mathias) was the true channel for Hatonn. "Mom, the fire's going..bring some more Cooper material" Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13517 alt.alien.visitors:12547 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:14:54 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp> References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73242@cup.portal.com> <73324@cup.portal.com> Lines: 32 In article <73324@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Ancient Nuclear Test. > In my travels looking for the Underground City near Danby, Calif. >I was once on the north side of the Clipper Montains and found a lot >of stones that looked like melted glass. It looked to me like there >had been a war thousands of years ago and the combatants used >some weapons that melted the stone and ground to turn it into glass. > I then started studing the subject and ran across the following >End Part 1. >Source of Material: UFO Universe Magazine. Fall 1992. Page 48, written ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >by Brad Steiger and Sherry Hansen Steiger. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Credibility factor: Less than Zero. UFO Universe is what you line a drawer with. Brad Steiger credible? NOT! Sheesh..why do I bother reading this newsgroup? "You visit the zoo but you don't contact the lizards" - J. Vallee Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12548 alt.conspiracy:21721 sci.skeptic:36926 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Linda Napolitano inReport - 1/2 Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:05:52 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan13.050552.8489@bilver.uucp> Lines: 655 Note: This was sent to me courtesy of George Hansen and arrived in the mail on disk. I've talked at length with George Hansen and Joe Stefula. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact them at the address and phone number provided in the file. Posted in two parts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- M E M O To: Those Interested in the UFO Problem From: Joseph J. Stefula (609) 893-9278 7 Michigan Terrace Browns Mills, NJ 08015 Richard D. Butler (609) 625-2890 P.O. Box 65 Mays Landing, NJ 08330 George P. Hansen (609) 426-0927 Princeton Arms North 1, Apt. 59 Cranbury, NJ 08512 Date: 08 January 1993 Re: Budd Hopkins' case of the abduction of Linda Napolitano Enclosed is our report on the much acclaimed case of the UFO abduction of Linda Napolitano. We invite your comments. Hopkins' claims have generated enormous publicity and have been mentioned in the New York Times, Omni, the Wall Street Journal, and Paris Match, among others. As such, this case is likely to have a substantial impact on the field of ufology. Leadership in both the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) and the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) aggressively opposed our investigation, and both previously refused to publish our criticisms. This raises grave questions about the scientific and journalistic integrity of MUFON and CUFOS. Those organizations have many members, and we are unable to provide more than a few copies of this paper to others. We ask you to help us with the distribution. Please feel free to make copies of this article, post it on electronic bulletin boards, and print it in periodicals. A Critique of Budd Hopkins' Case of the UFO Abduction of Linda Napolitano by Joseph J. Stefula, Richard D. Butler, and George P. Hansen ----------------------------------------------------------------- ABSTRACT: Budd Hopkins has made a number of public presentations of a purported UFO abduction case with multiple witnesses. The primary abductee is Linda Napolitano, who lives in an apartment building on the lower east side of Manhattan (New York City). She claims to have been abducted by extraterrestrial aliens from her 12th floor apartment in November 1989. It is claimed that three witnesses in a car two blocks away observed Linda and alien beings float out of a window and ascend into a craft. One alleged witness was United Nations Secretary General Javier Perez de Cuellar. It is also claimed that a woman on the Brooklyn Bridge observed the abduction. Linda has reported nose bleeds, and one X-ray displays an implant in her nose. To date, Hopkins has provided no full, detailed written report, but he did publish a couple five page articles in the September and December 1992 issues of the Mufon UFO Journal and made a presentation at the 1992 MUFON symposium. We have made use of that information as well as records from other presentations, and we have interviewed the abductee. A number of serious questions arose from our examination. The case has many exotic aspects, and we have identified a science fiction novel that may have served as the basis for elements of the story. Several prominent leaders in ufology have become involved, and their behavior and statements have been quite curious. Some have aggressively attempted to suppress evidence of a purported attempted murder. The implications for the understanding of ufology are discussed. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Budd Hopkins is the person most responsible for drawing attention to the problem of the extraterrestrial (ET) abduction experience. His efforts have been instrumental in stimulating both media attention and scientific research devoted to the problem. He has written two popular books (Missing Time, 1981, and Intruders, 1987), established the Intruders Foundation, and has made innumerable appearances at conferences and in the media. Although Hopkins is neither a trained therapist, an academic, nor a scientist, he has involved such people in his work. John E. Mack, M.D., a Pulitzer Prize winner and former head of the psychiatry department at Harvard Medical School, has praised Hopkins' work and acknowledged his indebtedness to him (Mack, 1992a, 1992b). Hopkins has collaborated with university professors in co-authoring an article in the book Unusual Personal Experiences (1992), which was sent to 100,000 mental health professionals. He has testified as an expert witness at a hearing regarding the medical competence of a physician who claims to have been abducted (McKenna, 1992). Because of such strong endorsements and impressive affiliations, and because of his untiring work on behalf of abductees, Hopkins has become the single most visible figure in the UFO abduction field. His contributions, positive or negative, will be quickly noticed by those inside and outside ufology. Last year, Hopkins made a number of public presentations about a spectacular UFO abduction case occurring in November 1989 and having multiple witnesses. The primary abductee was Linda Napolitano, a woman living on the 12th floor of a high-rise apartment building in lower Manhattan (New York City) [Hopkins has previously used the pseudonym "Linda Cortile" in this case]. It is claimed that three witnesses in a car two blocks away observed Linda and three ET aliens emerge from a window and ascend into a craft. Further it is claimed that a woman who was driving across the Brooklyn Bridge also saw the event. The case has generated enormous interest and drawn international attention. It has been discussed in the Wall Street Journal (Jefferson, 1992), Omni (Baskin, 1992), Paris Match (De Brosses, 1992), the New York Times (Sontag, 1992), and Hopkins and Napolitano have appeared on the television show Inside Edition. The Mufon UFO Journal labeled it "The Abduction Case of the Century" (Stacy, 1992, p. 9). Even the technical magazine ADVANCE for Radiologic Science Professionals carried a discussion of Linda's nasal implant (Hatfield, 1992). We should expect continuing coverage of the affair not only in the UFO press but also in the major media. In a short article previewing his 1992 MUFON symposium presentation, he wrote: "I will be presenting what I believe to be the most important case for establishing the objective reality of UFO abductions that I have yet encountered" (Hopkins, 1992, p. 20). During his lecture at the symposium he stated: "This is probably the most important case I've ever run into in my life" (tape recorded, July 1992). In his abstract for the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Abduction Study Conference held in June 1992 he wrote: "The importance of this case is virtually immeasurable, as it powerfully supports both the objective reality of UFO abductions and the accuracy of regressive hypnosis as employed with this abductee." Because of Hopkins' renown, and because of his evaluation, this case warrants our careful scrutiny. THE AUTHORS' INVOLVEMENT The first two authors had learned of the case before Hopkins had spoken publicly of it, and they decided to monitor its progress. They regularly briefed the third author as their investigation progressed. As the affair became publicized, all three became concerned about the long term effect it might have on abduction research. For several years Richard Butler attended Hopkins' informal meetings organized for abductees and abduction researchers. Butler became familiar with the case during those meetings, and he invited Stefula to a gathering in early October 1991. At the meeting, Hopkins outlined the case, and afterward, Stefula had a chance to chat with Linda about her experiences. Butler and Stefula gave Linda their telephone numbers. She was advised that if she needed any assistance she could contact them. Stefula told her that he had numerous contacts in federal and state law enforcement agencies that could be of aid to her. The same information was provided to Hopkins. On January 28, 1992, Linda requested a meeting with Richard Butler, and on February 1, 1992, Linda, Stefula and Butler met in New York City, and Linda provided additional details about her experiences (described below). During that meeting, she asked them not to inform Hopkins of their discussions. At the 1992 MUFON convention in Albuquerque, New Mexico in July, both Hopkins and Linda appeared on the podium and presented the case. Stefula attended the convention and heard the talk, and disturbing questions arose. Some of the statements directly contradicted what Linda had earlier told Stefula and Butler. We contacted Hopkins in an attempt to resolve these matters, but he declined to meet with us, saying that he didn't want to discuss the case until his book manuscript was submitted. Despite his initial reluctance, eventually a meeting was arranged on October 3, 1992 at Hopkins' home, and a few more details then emerged. SUMMARY OF CASE In order to compile this summary of alleged events, we have relied upon Hopkins' and Linda's talks from the podium of the 1992 MUFON symposium, on our interviews with Linda, on Hopkins' talk at the Portsmouth, New Hampshire UFO conference, September 13, 1992, and Hopkins' two five-page articles in the September and December issues of the Mufon UFO Journal. In April 1989 Hopkins received a letter from Linda Napolitano, a resident of New York City. Linda wrote that she had begun reading his book Intruders and had remembered that 13 years earlier she had detected a bump next to her nose. It was examined by a physician who insisted that she had undergone nasal surgery. Linda claimed that she never had such surgery, and she even checked with her mother, who confirmed that impression. Hopkins took an interest in the case because there was a potential for medical evidence and because Linda lived relatively close to Hopkins, which facilitated their meeting. Linda visited Hopkins and discussed her past experiences with him. She recalled some pertinent earlier events in her life but believed that she was no longer directly involved with any abduction phenomena. Linda then began attending meetings of Hopkins' support group for abductees. On November 30, 1989, Linda called Hopkins and reported that she had been abducted during the early morning hours of that day, and she provided some details. A few days later, she underwent regressive hypnosis, and Linda remembered floating out of her apartment window, 12 stories above the ground. She recalled ascending in a bluish-white beam of light into a craft which was hovering over the building. Richard and Dan Over a year later (February 1991), Hopkins received a letter signed with the first names, Richard and Dan. (We have no hard evidence that "Richard" and "Dan" actually exist. In order to avoid overburdening the reader, we will typically omit the word "alleged" when mentioning them.) The letter claimed that the two were police officers who were under cover in a car beneath the elevated FDR Drive between 3:00 and 3:30 a.m. in late November 1989. Above a high-rise apartment building, they observed a large, bright reddish-orange object with green lights around its side. They wrote that they saw a woman and several strange figures float out a window and up into the object. Richard and Dan said that they had come across Hopkins' name and decided to write to him. They went on to say that they were extremely concerned about her well being, wanted to locate the woman, talk to her, and be assured that she was alive and safe. The two also mentioned that they could identify the building and window from which she emerged. After receiving the letter, Hopkins promptly called Linda and told her that she might expect a visit from two policemen. A few days later, Linda telephoned Hopkins to tell him that she had been visited by Richard and Dan. When they had knocked on her door, introducing themselves as police officers, she was not too surprized because she reports that police frequently canvass her apartment complex looking for witnesses to crimes. Even with Hopkins' prior call, she did not expect Richard and Dan to actually appear. After they arrived and entered her home, there was an emotional greeting, and they expressed relief that she was alive. However, Richard and Dan were disinclined to meet with or talk to Hopkins, despite the fact that they had written him earlier and despite Linda's entreaties to do so. Richard asked Linda if it was acceptable for them to write out an account of their experience and then read it into a tape recorder. She agreed, and a couple weeks later Hopkins received a tape recording from Richard describing their experience. Some time thereafter, Hopkins received a letter from Dan giving a bit more information. The letter reported that Richard had taken a leave of absence because the close encounter had been so emotionally traumatic. Dan also mentioned that Richard secretly watched Linda. (This information is from Hopkins' oral presentation at the 1992 MUFON symposium in Albuquerque. At the Portsmouth, New Hampshire conference, Hopkins said that he had received a letter from Richard saying that Dan was forced to take of leave of absence. It is not clear if Hopkins misspoke at some point, or whether both individuals took leaves of absence.) Hopkins received another letter from Dan which said that he and Richard were not really police officers but actually security officers who had been driving a very important person (VIP) to a helicopter pad in lower Manhattan when the sighting occurred. The letter claimed that their car stalled, and Richard had pushed it, parking it beneath the FDR Drive. According to Dan, the VIP had also witnessed the abduction event and had become hysterical. The Kidnappings Linda claimed that in April of 1991 she encountered Richard on the street near her apartment. She was asked to get into a car that Dan was driving, but she refused. Richard picked her up and, with some struggle, forced her into the vehicle. Linda reported that she was driven around for 3 1/2 hours, interrogated about the aliens, and asked whether she worked for the government. She also said that she was forced to remove her shoes so they could examine her feet to determine whether she was an ET alien (they later claimed that aliens lack toes). Linda did remember another car being involved with the kidnapping, and under hypnotic regression she recalled the license plate number of that car, as well as part of the number of the car in which she rode. Hopkins reports that the numbers have been traced to particular "agencies" (he gave no further details). At the MUFON symposium, Linda was asked if she had reported the kidnapping to the police. She said that she had not and went on to say that the kidnapping was legal because it had to do with national security. In conversations with Butler in early 1992, Linda had expressed concerns about her personal safety. A meeting was arranged with Stefula because of his background in law enforcement. During the afternoon and early evening of February 1, the three met in New York City, and Linda described further details of the kidnappings. She reported that on the morning of October 15, 1991, Dan accosted her on the street and pulled her into a red Jaguar sports car. Linda happened to be carrying a tape recorder and was able to surreptitiously record a few minutes of Dan's questioning, but he soon discovered and confiscated it. Dan drove to a beach house on the shore of Long Island. There he demanded that Linda remove her clothes and put on a white nightgown, similar to the one she wore the night of the abduction. He said he wanted to have sex with her. She refused but then agreed to put on the nightgown over her clothes. Once she did, Dan dropped to his knees and started to talk incoherently about her being the "Lady of the Sands." She fled the beach house, but Dan caught her on the beach and bent her arm behind her. He placed two fingers on the back of her neck, leading Linda to believe that it was a gun. He then forced her into the water and pushed her head under twice. He continued to rave incoherently, and as her head was being pushed under for the third time, she believed that she would not come up again. Then, a "force" hit Dan and knocked him back onto the beach. She started to run but heard a sound like a gun being cocked. She looked back and saw Dan taking a picture of her (Linda mentioned that pictures from the beach were eventually sent to Hopkins). She continued running, but Richard appeared beside her, seemingly out of nowhere. He stopped her and convinced her to return to the beach house and told her that he would control Dan by giving him a Mickey Finn. She agreed. Once inside, Richard put Dan in the shower to wash off the mud and sand from the beach. This gave Linda a chance to search the premises; she recovered her casette tape and discovered stationery bearing a Central Intelligence Agency letterhead. In a brief conversation on October 3, 1992, Hopkins told Hansen that Linda came to him shortly after she arrived back in Manhattan after the kidnapping. She was disheveled, had sand in her hair, and was traumatized by the experience. Further Contacts with Richard and Dan During the February 1 meeting with Butler and Stefula, Linda reported that she had met Richard outside a Manhattan bank on November 21, 1991. He told her of Dan's deteriorating mental condition. During the Christmas season, Linda received a card and a three page letter from Dan (dated 12/14/91). The letter bore a United Nations stamp and postmark (the UN building in New York has a post office which anyone can use). Dan wrote that he was in a mental institution and was kept sedated. He expressed a strong romantic interest in Linda. Some of his remarks suggested that he wanted to kidnap her, take her out of the country, and marry her; Linda seemed alarmed by this (she gave a copy of the letter to Stefula and Butler). Linda also asserted that on December 15 and December 16, 1991, one of the men had tried to make contact with her near the shopping area of the South Street Seaport. He was driving a large black sedan with Saudi Arabian United Nations license plates. During the first incident, to avoid him, Linda reported that she went into a shop. The second day a similar thing happened, and she stood next to some businessmen until he left the area. The Third Man At the February 1 meeting, Linda mentioned that Hopkins had received a letter from "the third man" (the VIP), and she was able to repeat entire sentences from this letter, seemingly verbatim. It discussed ecological danger to the planet, and Linda indicated that aliens were involved in ending the Cold War. The letter ended with a warning to Hopkins to stop searching for "the third man" because it could potentially do harm to world peace. Linda also related a few more details of her November 1989 abduction. She said that the men in the car had felt a strong vibration at the time of the sighting. Linda also claimed that in subsequent hypnotic regressions she recalled being on a beach with Dan, Richard, and the third man, and she thought somehow she was being used by the aliens to control the men. She communicated with the men telepathically and said that she felt that she had known Richard prior to the November 1989 abduction, and she suggested that they possibly had been abducted together previously. We also learned that the third man was actually Javier Perez de Cuellar, at that time Secretary General of the United Nations. Linda claimed that the various vehicles used in her kidnappings had been traced to several countries' missions at the UN. At the Portsmouth, New Hampshire conference, Hopkins spoke of the third man saying: "I am trying to do what I can to shame this person to come forward." Witness on the Brooklyn Bridge In the summer of 1991, a year and a half after the UFO abduction, Hopkins received a letter from a woman who is a retired telephone operator from Putnam County, New York (Hopkins has given this woman the pseudonym of Janet Kimble). Hopkins did not bother to open the letter, and in November 1991, he received another one from her marked on the outside "CONFIDENTIAL, RE: BROOKLYN BRIDGE." The odd outside marking and the fact that she had written two letters, seem to have raised no suspicions in Hopkins' mind. The woman, a widow of about sixty, claimed to have been driving on the Brooklyn Bridge at 3:16 a.m., November 30, 1989. She reported that her car stopped and the lights went out. She too saw a large, brightly lit object over a building; in fact, the light was so bright that she was forced to shield her eyes, though she was over a quarter mile away. Nevertheless, she claimed to have observed four figures in fetal positions emerge from a window. The figures simultaneously uncurled and then moved up into the craft. Ms. Kimble was quite frightened by the event, and people in cars behind her were "running all around their cars with theirs (sic) hands on their heads, screaming from horror and disbelief" (quoted in Hopkins, 1992d, p. 7). She wrote: "I have never traveled back to New York City after what I saw and I never will again, for any reason" (Hopkins, 1992d, p. 5). Despite her intense fear and all the commotion, she had the presence of mind to rummage through her purse to find her cigarette lighter to illuminate her watch in order to determine the time. Hopkins has interviewed this woman in person and over the phone. The woman claimed to have obtained his name in a bookstore; she called the Manhattan directory assistance for his telephone number and then looked up his address in the Manhattan White Pages. She alleges that she was reticent about speaking of the incident and had only told her son, daughter, sister, and brother-in-law about the event. The Nasal X-ray In November 1991 a doctor, whom Hopkins describes as "closely connected with Linda," took an X-ray of Linda's head because she knew about the story of the nasal implant and because Linda frequently spoke of the problem with her nose. The X-ray was not developed immediately. A few days later the doctor brought it to Linda but was very nervous and unwilling to discuss it. Linda took it to Hopkins, who showed it to a neurosurgeon friend of his. The neurosurgeon was astounded; a sizeable, clearly non-natural object could be seen in the nasal area. Hopkins has shown a slide of the X-ray during his presentations, and the implant is strikingly apparent, even to a lay audience. The object has a shaft approximately 1/4 inch long with a curly-cue wire structure on each end. Other Unusual Aspects of the Case During our meeting with Linda on February 1, she gave us additional miscellaneous details that might be pertinent. We were told that she believed that she was under surveillance and described a light silver-gray van that had parked near her apartment. She also claimed that she had once been a professional singer and the lead on a hit record, but she had lost her singing voice one day while in the shower. Linda mentioned that she was given to understand that her blood was quite unusual. A doctor had informed her that her red blood cells did not die, but instead they rejuvenated. She wondered whether this might be due to an alien influence; some time later she attempted to locate the doctor but was unable to do so. Linda seemed to imply that she now believed that she was part alien or somehow worked with the aliens. Linda also told us that she had an agreement with Budd Hopkins to split equally any profits from a book on the case. INITIAL PROBLEMS WITH THE CASE There are a number of obvious but unanswered questions that raise immediate doubts about the credibility of the case. The most serious problem is that the three alleged principal corroborating witnesses (Richard, Dan, and Perez de Cuellar) have not been interviewed face- to-face by Hopkins, although it has been over a year and a half since initial contact with Hopkins and over three years since the abduction. Richard and Dan allegedly met with Linda and have written letters to Hopkins. Linda has a picture of Dan. Yet Dan and Richard refuse to speak directly with Hopkins. No hard evidence confirms that Richard and Dan even exist. Though they initially expressed extreme concern over the well being of Linda, the alleged "Dan" and "Richard" waited more than a year before contacting Linda and Hopkins. Why? Furthermore, they contacted Hopkins before they visited Linda. How did this come about? After all, they knew the location of Linda's apartment, so it would seem that they would have had no reason to contact Hopkins. Why did they bother with him at all? The woman on the bridge said that before contacting Hopkins she only discussed the matter with her son, daughter, sister and brother-in-law. Why didn't she contact other UFO investigators? Why only Hopkins? If there is some unclear reporting on this point and she did actually contact others, can such be verified? Has there been any investigation of this woman such as checking with her neighbors, friends, family, or previous employers? What is her background? Has she had any previous relationship with Linda? These questions have not been addressed, and thus the credibility of the only directly interviewed, corroborating, first-hand witness remains in doubt. Dan has spent time in a mental institution. Richard suffered extreme emotional distress, forcing him to take a leave of absence from his job. Assuming that these two people actually exist, one must now be careful in accepting their claims (even if offered in good faith). Despite their debilitating mental problems, at least one of them was allowed to drive a car with UN license plates. Are we really to believe that they returned to active duty in a sensitive position (presumably carrying firearms) and were given use of an official car? Who was the doctor who took the X-rays? We are only told that this person is closely connected with Linda. Why isn't a formal report available? Given the alarming nature of the outcome, why wasn't there an immediate examination? Linda said that the doctor was "nervous" and didn't want to talk about the X- ray. It is not clear whether Hopkins has ever met this alleged doctor. Instead, Hopkins showed the X-ray to a friend of his. Some have speculated that Linda may have simply put some small object in her nose and had a friendly X-ray technician assist. We have seen no evidence to exclude this possibility. Linda claims that she was kidnapped twice, nearly drowned, and further harassed. Yet she refuses to contact the police, even after Hopkins' urging. During the February 1, 1992 meeting with Stefula and Butler, Linda asked if she had legal grounds to "shoot" Dan if he attempted another abduction of her by force. Stefula advised against it and recommended that she go to the police and make an official complaint. She declined. If she was afraid, why didn't her husband contact authorities? The most plausible reason is that if a report was filed, and her story proved false, she could be subject to criminal charges. Linda's failure here raises enormous questions of credibility. OUR INVESTIGATION Despite the numerous problems outlined above, we believed it worthwhile to gain additional information because so many people had contacted us with questions. On September 19, 1992, Stefula, Butler, and Hansen traveled to New York City in order to visit the site of the alleged abduction. We found that Linda's apartment complex has a large courtyard with guard house manned 24 hours a day. We talked with the security guard and his supervisor and asked if they had ever heard about a UFO encounter near the complex. They reported hearing nothing about one. We also asked if the police routinely enter the complex and undertake door-to-door canvassing in order to find witnesses to crimes. They said that this was a very rare practice. We obtained the name and phone number of the apartment manager and called him a few days later. He reported knowing nothing about the UFO sighting, nor had he heard anything about it from any of the approximately 1600 residents in the complex. We also visited the site under the FDR drive where Richard and Dan purportedly parked their car. This was in a direct line of sight and nearly across the street from the loading dock of the New York Post. We spoke with an employee of the Post, who told us that the dock was in use through most of the night. A few days later, we called the New York Post and spoke to the person who was the loading dock manager in 1989. He told us that the dock is in use until 5:00 a.m. and that there are many trucks that come and go frequently during the early morning hours. The manager knew nothing of the UFO which supposedly appeared only a couple blocks away. Also in September, a colleague of ours contacted the Downtown Heliport, on Pier Six on the East River of Manhattan. That is the only heliport on the east side of Manhattan between Linda's apartment and the lower tip of the island. Our colleague was informed that the normal hours of operation of the heliport are from 7:00 a.m to 7:00 p.m. The Senior Airport Operations Agent researched the records and found that there were no helicopter movements on November 30, 1989 before normal hours. Our colleague was also told that about six months previously, the heliport authorities had been approached by a man in his fifties with white hair who had made a similar inquiry. That man had asked about a UFO that had crashed into the East River. The Meeting of October 3 On October 3, 1992, we met with Hopkins and his colleagues at his residence in Manhattan. Among those in attendance were David Jacobs, Walter H. Andrus, and Jerome Clark. During our meeting a number of questions were raised, and some of Hopkins' answers revealed a great deal about his investigations as well as the attitudes of Jacobs, Andrus, and Clark. Linda's statements also told us much. We inquired if Hopkins had asked the guards of the apartment complex whether they had seen the UFO. He indicated that he had not done so. This is quite surprising, considering that the UFO was so bright that the woman on the bridge had to shield her eyes from it even though she was more than a quarter mile distant. One would have thought that Hopkins would have made inquiries of the guards considering the spectacular nature of the event. We noted that Linda had claimed that police canvassing of her apartment complex was a common occurrence. We asked Hopkins if he had attempted to verify this with the guards or the building manager. He indicated that he did not feel it necessary. Although this is a minor point, it is one of the few directly checkable statements made by Linda, but Hopkins did not attempt to confirm it. We asked about the weather on the night of the abduction. Amazingly, Hopkins told us that he didn't know the weather conditions for that period. This was perhaps one of the most revealing moments, and it gives great insight into Hopkins' capabilities as an investigator. If the weather had been foggy, rainy, or snowing, the visibility could have been greatly hampered, and the reliability of the testimony of the witnesses would need to be evaluated accordingly. Even the very first form in the MUFON Field Investigator's Manual requests information on weather conditions (Fowler, 1983, p. 30). We ourselves did check the weather and knew the conditions did not impede visibility. But the fact that Hopkins apparently had not bothered to obtain even this most basic investigatory information was illuminating. He claims to have much supporting evidence that he has not revealed to outsiders; however, because of Hopkins' demonstrated failure to check even the most rudimentary facts, we place absolutely no credence in his undisclosed "evidence." During the discussions, Hopkins' partisans made allusions to other world figures involved in this event, though they did not give names. Hopkins' supporters, who had been given information denied to us, seemed to believe that there was a large motorcade that carried Perez de Cuellar and these other dignitaries in the early morning hours of November 30, 1989. At the meeting, we presented an outside expert consultant who for many years had served in dignitary protective services. He described the extensive preplanning required for moving officials and the massive coordination during the movements. Many people and networks would be alerted if there were any problems at all (such as a car stalling, or a delay in passing checkpoints). His detailed presentation seemed to take Hopkins aback. The consultant listed several specialized terms used by the dignitary protective services and suggested that Hopkins ask Richard and Dan the meaning of those terms as a test of their knowledge, and thus credibility. As far as we know, Hopkins has failed to contact Richard and Dan about that matter. During the beginning part of the October 3 meeting, Linda's husband answered a few questions (in a very quiet voice). He seemed to have difficulty with some of them, and Linda spoke up to "correct" his memory. He left the meeting very early, even though Linda was under considerable stress, and despite the fact that she was overheard asking him to stay by her side. His leaving raised many questions in our minds. Linda also responded to questions during the meeting. Early in the discussion, Hansen asked Linda's husband whether he was born and raised in the U.S. He replied that he had come to this country when he was 17. Linda promptly interjected that she knew why Hansen had asked that question. During a prior telephone conversation between Linda and Hansen, Linda had asserted that her husband was born and raised in New York. She acknowledged that she had previously deliberately misled Hansen. Later in the meeting the question arose about a financial agreement between Linda and Hopkins. Stefula noted that Linda had told him that she and Hopkins had an agreement to split profits from a book. Hopkins denied that there was any such arrangement, and Linda then claimed that she had deliberately planted disinformation. During the meeting, reports were heard from two psychologists. They concluded that Linda's intelligence was in the "average" range. One suggested that Linda would need the mind of a Bobby Fischer to plan and execute any hoax that could explain this case and that she was not capable of orchestrating such a massive, complex operation. Although these were supposedly professional opinions, we were not given the names of these psychologists. Ms. Penelope Franklin also attended the meeting. She is a close colleague of Hopkins and the editor of IF--The Bulletin of the Intruders Foundation. Hopkins had previously informed us in writing that Ms. Franklin was a coinvestigator on the Napolitano case. In a conversation during a break in the meeting, Franklin asserted to Hansen that Linda was absolutely justified in lying about the case. This remarkable statement was also witnessed by Vincent Creevy, who happened to be standing between Franklin and Hansen. Franklin's statement raises very troubling questions, especially given her prominence within Hopkins' circle of colleagues. Her statement appears to violate all norms of scientific integrity. We can only wonder whether Linda has been counseled to lie by Hopkins or his colleagues. Have other abductees been given similar advice? What kind of a social and ethical environment are Hopkins and Franklin creating for abductees? We also cannot help but wonder whether Hopkins and Franklin believe it appropriate for themselves to lie about the case. They owe the UFO research community an explanation for Franklin's statement. If such is not forthcoming, we simply cannot accept them as credible investigators. << cont in part 2 >> -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12549 alt.conspiracy:21722 sci.skeptic:36927 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Linda Napolitano Report - 2/2 Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:07:04 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan13.050704.8622@bilver.uucp> Lines: 637 << Linda Report - Part 2 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- HOPKINS' REACTION TO OUR INVESTIGATION In concluding his Mufon UFO Journal paper, Hopkins wrote: "if rumors are true and there are officially sanctioned intelligence agents within the various UFO investigative networks, these people will also be mobilized to subvert the case from the inside, even before its full dimensions are made known to the public at large" (Hopkins, 1992c, p. 16). Hopkins apparently takes this idea quite seriously. After he learned of our investigation, he warned Butler that he suspected Butler and Stefula of being government agents and that he planned to inform others of his suspicions. A few weeks after our October 3 meeting, he told people that he suspected Hansen of being a CIA agent. This was not an offhand remark made to a friend in an informal setting; rather this was asserted to a woman whom he did not know and who had happened to attend one of his lectures (member of MUFON in New Jersey who feared future repercussions if her name was mentioned, personal communication, November 7, 1992). A POSSIBLE LITERARY BASIS FOR ELEMENTS OF THE STORY This case is quite exotic, even for a UFO abduction. Government agents are involved, the UN Secretary General is a key witness, Linda was kidnapped in the interests of national security, concerns are expressed about world peace, the CIA is attempting to discredit the case, and the ETs helped end the Cold War. The story is truly marvellous, and one might wonder about its origin. We wish to draw the readers' attention to the science fiction novel, Nighteyes, by Garfield Reeves-Stevens. This work was first published in April 1989, a few months before Linda claimed to have been abducted from her apartment. The experiences reported by Linda seem to be a composite of those of two characters in Nighteyes: Sarah and Wendy. The parallels are striking; some are listed in Table 1. We have not bothered to include the similarities commonly reported in abduction experiences (e.g., implants, bodily examinations, probes, etc.). The parallels are sufficiently numerous to lead us to suspect that the novel served as the basis for Linda's story. We want to emphasize that the parallels are with discrete elements of the case and not with the story line itself. Table 1 - Similarities Between the Linda Napolitano Case and the Science Fiction Novel Nighteyes * Linda was abducted into a UFO hovering over her high-rise apartment building in New York City. Sarah was abducted into a UFO hovering over her high-rise apartment building in New York City. * Dan and Richard initially claimed to have been on a stakeout and were involved in a UFO abduction in during early morning hours. Early in Nighteyes two government agents were on a stakeout and became involved in a UFO abduction during early morning hours. * Linda was kidnapped and thrown into a car by Richard and Dan. Wendy was kidnapped and thrown into a van by Derek and Merril. * Linda claimed to have been under surveillance by someone in a van. Vans were used for surveillance in Nighteyes. * Dan is a security and intelligence agent. Derek was an FBI agent. * Dan was hospitalized for emotional trauma. One of the government agents in Nighteyes was hospitalized for emotional trauma. * During the kidnapping Dan took Linda to a safe house. During the kidnapping Derek took Wendy to a safe house. * The safe house Linda visited was on the beach. In Nighteyes, one safe house was on the beach. * Before her kidnapping, Linda contacted Budd Hopkins about her abduction. Before her kidnapping, Wendy contacted Charles Edward Starr about her abduction. * Budd Hopkins is a prominent UFO abduction researcher living in New York City and an author who has written books on the topic. Charles Edward Starr was a prominent UFO abduction researcher living in New York City and an author who had written books on the topic. * Linda and Dan were abducted at the same time and communicated with each other during their abductions. Wendy and Derek were abducted at the same time and communicated with each other during their abductions. * Linda thought she "knew" Richard previously. Wendy "knew" Derek previously. * Dan expressed a romantic interest in Linda. Derek became romantically involved with Wendy. * Dan and Richard felt considerable vibration during the close encounter. During the UFO landing in Nighteyes there was much vibration. * Photographs of Linda were taken on the beach and sent to Hopkins. In Nighteyes, photographs taken on a beach played a central role. THE REACTION OF THE UFOLOGY'S LEADERSHIP One of the most curious features of our investigation has been the reaction of several prominent leaders in ufology. Indeed, in the long run, this may turn out to be the most important part of the entire affair. After the MUFON symposium in July, Stefula had several conversations with Walter Andrus, International Director of MUFON. Andrus told him that MUFON had no interest in publishing any material critical of this case even though they had published an article describing it as "The Abduction Case of the Century." This is a most surprising statement from a leader of an organization which purports to be scientific. Andrus' statements should raise questions about the legitimacy of MUFON's claims to use objective, scientific methods. On September 14, 1992, Hopkins faxed Butler a letter saying that as a long-standing member of MUFON, he was issuing an "order" (his word). He "ordered" Stefula and Butler to stop their investigation of the case. We found this very curious, and we wondered how Hopkins, as a member of MUFON, could believe that it was in his power to issue such an "order." His letter seemed to reflect the mindset of a leader of a cult rather than that of an investigator searching for the truth. For the meeting on October 3 in New York City, Hopkins flew in his close friend Jerome Clark from Minnesota. Under the sway of Hopkins, Clark strenuously urged that outsiders cease investigations, thus seemingly trying to reinforce Hopkins' earlier "order" (despite the fact that the case already had been reported in the Wall Street Journal, Omni, Paris Match and the television show Inside Edition). Clark (1992a) later committed his position to writing, saying that this case may indeed involve a world political figure and have international consequences. Andrus and Clark are arguably the two most influential figures in U.S. ufology. Andrus is International Director of the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), and he organizes the largest annual conference on UFOs in the country and regularly writes for MUFON's monthly magazine. Clark is a columnist for Fate magazine, editor of International UFO Reporter, vice-president of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, and author of books and even an encyclopedia on UFOs. Because of their eminence, their statements should be of special concern to the UFO research community. At the meeting on October 3, the kidnapping and attempted murder of Linda were discussed. We informed Hopkins and the other participants that we were prepared to make a formal request for a federal investigation of the government agents responsible for the alleged felonies. Hopkins, Andrus, and Clark appeared to literally panic at the suggestion. They vigorously argued against making such a request. We could only conclude that they wanted to suppress evidence of attempted murder. We wondered why. This situation seemed so outrageous that a few days later Hansen called Andrus, Clark, John Mack, and David Jacobs and asked them if they really believed Linda's story about the kidnappings and attempted murder. All of these individuals said that they accepted her account. We were forced to seriously consider their opinions because they had been given secret information not revealed to us. During the telephone conversations, Andrus and Clark again strongly objected to requesting an investigation by law enforcement authorities. A PSYCHO-SOCIAL PERSPECTIVE The Napolitano case brings into stark relief symptoms of deep problems within ufology: major figures in the UFO community aggressively sought to suppress evidence of a purported attempted murder; Hopkins failed to obtain and verify even the most basic investigatory information; his coinvestigator, Penelope Franklin, approved of lying by the principal witness; and leaders in the field have willingly accepted and promoted the case despite its exotic features and lack of supporting evidence. This state of affairs raises perplexing questions and cries out for a plausible explanation. The thinking and motivations of ufology's leaders deserve at least as much attention as the abduction claims themselves. Did these leaders really believe, as they said, that they accepted the report of attempted murder? If so, they seem not to have acted as responsible citizens. However, these people do not appear to us to be delusional, in any usual sense of that word. They are highly functional members of society. They also do not appear to be perpetrators of a hoax or even "yellow journalists" with a "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" attitude who knowingly want to capitalize on it for their own temporary glory or financial gain. We believe that other motivating factors and concepts provide a better explanation and framework for understanding these seemingly bizarre actions. We would suggest that perhaps, at some semiconscious level, these individuals do not really believe their UFO investigations to be fully engaged with the "real world." Rather, their behavior and statements seem more consistent with something like fantasy role playing, perhaps akin to the game Dungeons and Dragons (D & D). Both ufology and D & D allow direct, immediate involvement with powerful "other-world" beings and mythological motifs. Both endeavors have been known to overtake (possess?) the participants, though only occasionally to their detriment. Most "players" are able to successfully detach themselves from involvement, but occasionally the "game" becomes obsessive and interferes with "real-world" pursuits. This "role playing" taps archetypal images that hold great psychological power. The archetypes can become immensely attractive, even addictive, to those playing the game. The notions and images of powerful "other-world" figures are part of the human condition. Accounts of them are found in all cultures throughout history, this being one of the traditional domains of religion. Even atheists and those who deny the existence of such beings must still grapple with the ideas on some level, though this might not be consciously recognized by an individual. In the Napolitano case, the "other-world" figures include not only the ET aliens, but also the pantheon of agents of an unreachable, evil government conspiracy determined to prevent humankind's knowledge of the ETs. Intermediaries between flesh and blood humans and the powerful masters of the mystical higher orders are ubiquitous in the realm of religion. Angels and devils serve the centers of ultimate good and evil. So here we see the largely invisible minions "Dan" and "Richard" and the mysterious witness on the bridge furthering the cause of "Truth." Likewise, Hopkins discerns the skeptical investigators as agents of a secular satan. Thus the interactions of Hopkins, et al., with these players are seen to conform to the rules that historically control the interactions between humans and gods. Humans question and provoke the gods only at the greatest peril. The proper approach is to appease, mollify and supplicate these "entities." It should be no surprise that the simplest reality tests of the Napolitano story were not made in this case. Hopkins' failure to check the weather conditions during the abduction actually makes sense in the context of this cult-like thought process. Just as lice were called "pearls of heaven" by medieval religious devotees, the physical event-reality issues in the Linda story are transmuted by her supporters. The roles of high priest and acolytes are only too obvious when examaning the behaviors of personages Hopkins, Clark, Jacobs, and Andrus. These aging white males patronizingly refer to Linda's "average" intellect, perhaps to reassure themselves that they are indeed in control. Yet the high priestess has, in effect, achieved the godhead (metaphorically speaking, of course). There are some differences between D & D and ufological pursuits. D & D has more restrictive and structured rules. The boundaries of appropriate behavior are rather clearly defined. Ufology is more "unstructured," there are fewer "rules" about what is and is not possible, and the powers of the "other- world" figures are almost unbounded. This relative lack of structure makes the UFO game somewhat more "dangerous." In order to grapple with the phenomena, the paradigms adopted by many ufologists have "concretized" (i.e., structured) the beings as ET humanoids. In fantasy role playing, the rules are not questioned; they are accepted by the players at the beginning. Similarly in the Linda case, the basic evidence is not to be questioned. Andrus, Clark, and Hopkins have all urged that outsiders cease investigation (despite the massive publicity given to the case). Such challenging of "rules" leads to disruptions of the "game," and the dungeon masters need to keep order. Direct interfacing of the "fantasy role" with the "real-world" (i.e., direct allegations of attempted murder, verification of details of testimony), usually does not cause problems, except when the players do not act in accordance with consequential "real-world" concerns. Hopkins, Andrus, Clark, Mack, and Jacobs seem to have accepted a system of beliefs and assumptions that have led to a collision with the "real world." They have been unable to rationally defend their behavior, and Jerome Clark's (1992a) "Torquemada" article is perhaps the single best example of that. In fact, his emotional attack labeling Hansen as "Torquemada" (director of the Spanish Inquisition) ressurects and reinforces religious themes, and it perhaps betrays his unconscious feelings of religious persecution. The above discussion derives from a psycho-social perspective, and we would like to encourage U.S. researchers to become more familiar the ideas generated from that approach. We admit that the psycho-social theorists have failed to address many aspects of the abduction experience generally. Exclusive use of that perspective can lead to positing simplistic and scientifically sterile explanations. On the other hand, those that shun the psycho-social perspective typically fail to recognize the explanatory power it possesses and its ability to illuminate risks faced by investigators. Those wanting more information about the psycho-social perspective may wish to read the book Angels and Aliens by Keith Thompson (1991) and the British magazine Magonia; almost without saying, the works of John Keel are also recommended. We are not denigrating ufology by such comparisons as those made above, nor are we attacking the existence of "other-world" entities. Regardless whether entities or ET aliens exist, the comparisons are useful and the consequences and insights are applicable. Such a comparative analysis should not be limited to only D & D players and ufologists; similar comparisons could be made for virtually everyone in the "real world." They can help serve as warnings about becoming too complacent regarding beliefs in our own "rationality." DISCUSSION The Napolitano case appears beset by an overwhelming number of problems. It was with some misgivings that we first embarked on this investigation because we did not wish to see UFO abduction research discredited. In fact, one of us, Butler, has had abduction experiences himself. It was our judgement that if we did not raise these issues for public discussion, there was a much greater risk for the field. The case was garnering considerable attention, and if it became widely regarded as evidential, it would reflect very badly on the field as a whole if it was eventually shown to be false. We were quite unprepared for the reaction to our work from leaders of the field. Walter Andrus and Jerome Clark aggressively tried to dissuade us from continuing our investigation, and so far they have failed to publish any material critical of the case. We were unaware that such belligerently antiscientific attitudes were so prevalent at the highest levels of ufology. When these same individuals attempted to suppress evidence of an alleged attempted murder, we concluded that their beliefs and actions were incompatible with "real world" events. However, we do not consider the label "deluded" appropriate here, and we remind the reader that these individuals are backed by people such as Harvard psychiatrist John Mack and David Jacobs, professor of history at Temple University. Despite our disappointment, we strongly support scientific research into the abduction phenomena and would like to call attention to high quality studies in the field (e.g., Ring & Rosing, 1990; Rodeghier, Goodpaster & Blatterbauer, 1992). We also believe that the core abduction experience has not been adequately explained within normal scientific frameworks. We commend the work of Hufford (1982) in exploring similar issues. The present case has significant implications for assessing the true nature of the abduction phenomena. The idea that actual extraterrestrial physical creatures are abducting people has been vigorously promoted in the scientific literature and in the media. Jacobs has promoted that view in the New York Times (Hinds, 1992) as well as in the Journal of UFO Studies (Jacobs, 1992). He suggests that the ET aliens are visiting earth in order to obtain human sperm and eggs. In his JUFOS article, Jacobs was bitterly critical of Ring and Rosing, saying that they ignored "cases of witnesses seeing others being abducted while not being abducted themselves" (p. 162). Surprizingly, Jacobs gave no citations for any of these cases. Hansen wrote to Jacobs requesting such citations but received no reply. Jacobs' article was lavish in its praise for Hopkins' work, and we suspect that Jacobs had in mind the Napolitano case when he wrote his article. We would like to remind the reader that it was Hopkins (1992a) who wrote: "The importance of this case is virtually immeasurable, as it powerfully supports both the objective reality of UFO abductions and the accuracy of regressive hypnosis." Because the argument for the "objective reality of UFO abductions" relies heavily on Hopkins' work, our findings call into question this entire theoretical perspective. In our judgment, conscious hoaxes are rare in the abduction field. The vast majority of those claiming to be abducted have had some kind of intense personal experience, whatever the ultimate cause. Nevertheless, the problems of fraud and hoaxing have long been a problem in ufology, especially for cases with high visibility. This will continue. Researchers must become more open minded to the potential for hoaxing, yet not be blinded to the genuine phenomena. This is a difficult balance. Some have questioned possible motives in this case; it is impossible to obtain certain knowledge here. Perhaps Linda really had some kind of an abduction experience (Butler believes this is likely to be the case). As she became acquainted with Hopkins and other abductees, she may have wanted to vindicate them--to save them from ridicule and derision. Perhaps money was the only motivation. Possibly there was a combination of factors. It does appear that if this was a hoax, it was not perpetrated by a lone individual. Collaborators would include the woman on the bridge, an X-ray operator, and a man (or men) preparing the tape recordings. However, we want to emphasize that we have no direct evidence to implicate Hopkins in attempted deception. Cynics might criticize Hopkins saying that he ignored the obvious problems because he was motivated by money that might accrue from books and movie rights. While this might possibly be an unconscious factor, critics rarely acknowledge that Hopkins does not charge abductees for his services (unlike some "professionals"). Hopkins has spent an enormous amount of his own time and money investigating the phenomena. Furthermore, he does not have an academic position subsidized by the tax payers. One should not begrudge him the profits from his books. Hopkins has been involved in considerable controversy, and some have disputed his methods. Nevertheless, he has done much to bring the abduction problem to the attention of scientists and the mental health community, and his efforts have made it much more acceptable to discuss such strange encounters. Abduction experiences are often emotional and traumatic, and the abductees need considerable support. Hopkins has attempted to provide much needed aid. The outside critic who is not directly involved in such activities almost never recognizes how difficult it is to serve as both a therapist and as a scientist. Those persons trying to help abductees emotionally need to provide warmth, acceptance, and trust. The scientist, however, needs to be critically open minded and somewhat detached and analytical. The two functions are not altogether compatible. We cannot realistically expect one individual to be 100% effective in both roles. By the nature of the endeavor, those trying to be helpful can be vulnerable to deception. APPENDIX A Note on the Hansen-Clark Communications One of the more entertaining aspects of this case has been the resulting missives by Hansen (1992a, 1992b) and Clark (1992a, 1992b) which have been widely circulated and posted on electronic bulletin boards. We encourage those interested to obtain copies. Clark's (1992b) most recent piece deserves comment. He now says that he now does not accept Linda's claims about the kidnapping and attempted murder by government agents. However, in a telephone conversation with him on October 6, 1992, he told Hansen that he accepted those claims. Hansen did not tape-record the conversation, but he is willing to provide a sworn statement to that effect. Hansen also talked with Marcello Truzzi who had spoken to Clark near the same time. Truzzi understood that Clark believed that Linda was sincere in her claims and was telling the truth to the best of her ability. The salient points are summarized as follows: 1. At the 1992 MUFON symposium, Linda Napolitano spoke in front of hundreds of people and claimed that she was kidnapped by government agents. 2. Clark told both Hansen and Truzzi that he accepted Linda's story (i.e., that she was telling the truth to the best of her ability). 3. Hopkins claims to have much evidence that could be used to identify the culprits. 4. Hopkins flew Clark to New York, whereupon Clark aggressively injected himself into matters and vigorously opposed continuing an outside investigation and reporting the alleged felonies to law enforcement authorities. He defended this position, in writing, saying: "if this story is true, it is not just a UFO case but a `politically sensitive' event because it supposedly involves a political figure of international stature...banging on the wrong doors could alert the relevant agency that two of its agents were leaking a huge secret." (Clark, 1992a, p. 1). We will let the readers decide whether Clark's initial position was compatible with "real-world" considerations. We are gratified that Clark has taken the time to comment, at length, on these issues, and in a style so typical of his level of dispassionate commentary. We caution readers that Clark perhaps may be currently acutely embarrassed by his statement quoted in point 4 and may feel the need to obscure this central issue. Nevertheless, we are pleased that he now seems to have made a cathartic conversion. REFERENCES Baskin, Anita. (1992). Antimatter: High-rise abductions: Alien abductions routinely occur in big cities and high-rise buildings around the world. Omni. April. Vol. 14, No. 7, p. 75. Clark, Jerome. (1992a). The Politics of Torquemada; or, Earth Calling Hansen's Planet. 612 North Oscar Avenue, Canby, Minnesota 56220. October 24, 1992. [This paper has been circulated and posted on electronic bulletin boards]. Clark, Jerome. (1992b). Wasting Away in Torquemadaville. November 30, 1992. [This paper has been circulated]. De Brosses, Marie-Therese. (1992). Enleves par les E.T.! Paris Match. 17 Sept., pp. 13, 14, 18, 96, 98. Drano the Sewerian [pseudonym]. (1992). SETI and military personnel monitor secret UFO abduction conference at MIT. Third Eyes Only. July-August, No. 4, pp. 42-44. Fowler, Raymond E. (Editor). (1983). MUFON Field Investigator's Manual. Seguin, TX: Mutual UFO Network. Hansen, George P. (1992a). Attempted Murder vs. The Politics of Ufology: A Question of Priorities in the Linda Napolitano Case. 20 October 1992. [This paper has been circulated and posted on a number of electronic bulletin boards and published in several periodicals including The New Jersey Chronicle, Vol. 3, Nos. 1/2, September-December, 1992; MUFON of Ohio Newsletter, No. 3, Second November 1992 Issue; Third Eyes Only, No. 6, November 1992; UFO Spotters Newsletter, No. 16, 1992; Minnesota MUFON Newsletter, No. 37, October 1992] Hansen, George P. (1992b). "Torquemada" Responds to Jerome Clark. 23 November 1992. [This paper has been circulated and posted on a number of electronic bulletin boards.] Hatfield, Scott. (1992). X-Ray Said to Show Alien Implant. ADVANCE for Radiologic Science Professionals. October 26, p. 11. Hinds, Michael deCourcy. (1992). Taking U.F.O.'s for Credit, and for Real. New York Times, 28 October, p. B9. Hopkins, Budd. (1981). Missing Time: A Documented Study of UFO Abductions. New York: Richard Marek. Hopkins, Budd. (1987). Intruders: The Incredible Visitations at Copley Woods. New York: Random House. Hopkins, Budd. (1991). Innocent bystanders. IF-The Bulletin of the Intruders Foundation. Vol. 1, No. 3, pp. 1-4. Hopkins, [Budd]. (1992a). A doubly witnessed abduction. Abstracts: Abduction Study Conference at Massachusetts Institute of Technology prepared by Andrea Pritchard. June 13-17, p. III-B. Hopkins, Budd. (1992b). An Open Letter From Budd Hopkins. Mufon UFO Journal, June, p. 20. Hopkins, Budd. (1992c). The Linda Cortile [Napolitano] Abduction Case. Mufon UFO Journal, September, pp. 12-16. Hopkins, Budd. (1992d). The Linda Cortile [Napolitano] Abduction Case: Part II "The Woman on the Bridge (sic). Mufon UFO Journal, December, pp. 5-9. Hufford, David J. (1982). The Terror That Comes in the Night: An Experience- Centered Study of Supernatural Assault Traditions. Philadelphia, PA: University of Pennsylvania Press. Jacobs, David M. (1992). On Studying the Abduction Phenomenon Without Knowing What It Is. Journal of UFO Studies, New Series Vol. 3, 153-163. Jefferson, David J. (1992). A Harvard doctor offers trauma relief for UFO `abductees.' Wall Street Journal, May 14, pp. A1, A10. Mack, John E. (1992a). Helping Abductees. International UFO Reporter. July/ August, pp. 10-15, 20. Mack, John E. (1992b). Other Realities: The "Alien Abduction" Phenomenon. Noetic Sciences Review. Autumn, pp. 5-11. McKenna, Chris. (1992). Doc `Abducted by Aliens' Ruled Fit to Work. New York Post, November 21, pp. 5, 13. Reeves-Stevens, Garfield. (1989). Nighteyes. New York: Doubleday. Ring, Kenneth; & Rosing, Christopher J. (1990). The Omega Project: A Psychological Survey of Persons Reporting Abductions and Other UFO Encounters. Journal of UFO Studies, New Series Vol. 2, 59-98. Rodeghier, Mark; Goodpaster, Jeff; & Blatterbauer, Sandra. (1992). Psychosocial Characteristics of Abductees: Results From the CUFOS Abduction Project. Journal of UFO Studies, New Series Vol. 3, 59-90. Sontag, Deborah. (1992). Reverence and Rigidity in the New Age: At the Whole Life Expo the Spirits are Willing So Long as the Wallet is Not Weak. New York Times, October 5, pp. B1, B2. Stacy, Dennis. (1992). The 1992 MUFON Symposium. Mufon UFO Journal, August, pp. 3-10. Thompson, Keith. (1991). Angels and Aliens: UFOs and the Mythic Imagination. Reading, MA: Addison-Wesley Publishing Company. Unusual Personal Experiences: An Analysis of the Data from Three National Surveys Conducted by the Roper Organization. (1992). Las Vegas, NV: Bigelow Holding Corporation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgements: We would like to thank Philip J. Klass for assistance. We would also like to thank Vincent Creevy for providing materials and bringing the novel Nighteyes to our attention. Thanks are also due to several who provided help but do not want their names associated with the field of ufology. Joseph Stefula is a former Special Agent for the U.S. Army Criminal Investigations Command and is a former MUFON State Director for New Jersey. He resigned his directorship shortly after finishing this investigation. Richard Butler is a former law enforcement and security police specialist for the U.S. Air Force and now a UFO investigator researching abductions and government cover-ups. George Hansen has conducted parapsychological research and is author of the article "CSICOP and the Skeptics: An Overview" which appeared in the January 1992 Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research. Joseph Stefula (609) 893-9278 7 Michigan Terrace Browns Mills, NJ 08015 Richard Butler (609) 625-2890 P.O. Box 65 Mays Landing, NJ 08330 George Hansen (609) 426-0927 Princeton Arms North 1, Apt. 59 Cranbury, NJ 08512 08 January 1993 ** End of File ** -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!richs From: richs@cogs.sussex.ac.uk (Richard Salter) Subject: Mr Sceptic Message-ID: <1993Jan12.185150@cogs.sussex.ac.uk> Sender: richs@cogs (Richard Salter) Organization: University of Sussex Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:51:50 GMT Lines: 28 I've just found this group this evening, and I'm quite interested in the subject matter. However, I have never had an encounter, and I now nobody who has, though I have read lots of UFO stories in books people used to give me in the past. Anyway, I would be grateful if anybody could send me (by e-mail unless you particularly want to post) some acounts of UFO sightings and other unexplained phenomena because I'm gonna take some convincing.... Oh yeah, who are all these people who post to random newsgroups saying that anyone on that newsgroup is a loser with no life. These people really irritate me. I'm not a firm believer in UFOs, but I'm not gonna insult anybody here who does.... regards and thanks, Happy Halibut II (made up name) ---- ****************************************************************************** * ......Expect some madness in your mailbox...... * ****************************************************************************** * / * * richs@cogs.susx.ac.uk / "from rags to richs" * * / * ****************************************************************************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!richs From: richs@cogs.sussex.ac.uk (Richard Salter) Subject: Re: What do I do when... Message-ID: <1993Jan12.185558@cogs.sussex.ac.uk> Sender: richs@cogs (Richard Salter) Organization: University of Sussex References: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:55:58 GMT Lines: 21 In article , davidt@mlink.UUCP (David T.) writes: |> Just out of curiosity what should I or anyone else do if visited by an ET? Run, |> pull out the video camera, or submit to their requests??? Simple, offer them a recording contract and then send the video tape to "You've Been Framed" (that's a British show where funny videos are sent in by the public and the best wins a prize, for all you non-Brits) Happy Halibut III ---- ****************************************************************************** * ......Expect some madness in your mailbox...... * ****************************************************************************** * / * * richs@cogs.susx.ac.uk / "from rags to richs" * * / * ****************************************************************************** From: andre@krypta.in-berlin.de (Andre Eichner) Sender: uucp@krypta.in-berlin.de Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!unlisys!harvey!krypta!uucp Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Pleiadian problems Message-ID: <726789763.AA01383@krypta.in-berlin.de> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:08:00 +0200 Lines: 28 Hello Jeff! Friday January 08 1993, Jeff writes to All: >> A few sources state that the Pleiadians no longer visit us because they >> have "problems at home" that they must attend to. Does anybody know what >> these problems are supposed to be? Thankyou Peter T. J> I would be interested to hear about your sources. In december'92, I hear from a channel (Heliodor from the plejades was channeled) that a planet on the plejades was a short time in war... I don't know, if I can believe it... cheers Andre +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | ********* FidoNet-Berlin, the light of the planet ********* | | Centre for interdimensional communication, telepathy and channeling | | -=< ParaNet-Sigma-Alpha >=-, the international UFO-Research-Network | | The bbs for people with contact - information exchange - lightworkers | | FidoNet : Andre Eichner, 2:2403/10 + 2:2403/777 + 2:2403/999 | | InterNet: andre@krypta.in-berlin.de | | BBS.....: ++49-30-7919269 14.400 bps, HST/V32Bis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ * Origin: -==- The UFO Information In Berlin (2:2403/10) From: andre@krypta.in-berlin.de (Andre Eichner) Sender: uucp@krypta.in-berlin.de Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!unlisys!harvey!krypta!uucp Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: i have a question Message-ID: <726789763.AA01384@krypta.in-berlin.de> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:36:00 +0200 Lines: 26 Hello John_-_Winston! Saturday January 09 1993, John_-_Winston writes to All: J-W> Dear People: I have been asked why I think people can go to Venus and J-W> other planets after a conditioning period and how people from Venus J-W> can come here. One of the first reasons that I believe it is that I A friend says, he was visited from a girl. She says, that she's not from earth but from a planet names "paxas" ...(???). If you like to read the whole story, I will send you the german-language message. I think it's possible... but belive ??? I don't know... J-W> A person by the name of Buck Nelson made some visits to J-W> other planets and he was subjected to some energy that over a two J-W> week period changed the resonant frequency of his body so that he J-W> could exist on Venus with no problem. It sounds possible... I heared about the technique to change the body frequency for interdimensional travel. cheers Andre * Origin: Centre for interdimensional Communication - Berlin (2:2403/10) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Alien Past. Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:32:57 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan13.043257.7778@bilver.uucp> References: <228.40599@tron.gun.de> Lines: 30 In article <228.40599@tron.gun.de> locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) writes: >\JOHN_-_\WINSTON%CUP.PORTAL.COM@USENET schrieb am 5.01.93 um 22:32: > >\P> Subject: Have You Lived On An Other Planet Before? >\P> [...] >\P> "I agree with the estimate of one in five people having lived a past life >\P> in an alien world beyond Earth," he said. >\P> This is me JW talking now. Lo and behold could this possibuly be true. Oh >and so on. Do you know any more facts about that? > >\P> Source of Information: Weekly World News, January 19, 1993 page 21. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Forget about the date..the bigger outpoint is the source. *yawn* "What are the 2 most common elements in the universe? Hydrogen and Stupidity" Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:57:44 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan13.045744.8256@bilver.uucp> References: Lines: 59 In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >I've been reading this newsgroup for a while now and would like to introduce >some form of debate for readers to pick up on (JW excluded). > >1) Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, I have frequently come >accross cattle mutilations. This is when cattle have parts of their bodies cut >out very precisely and all their blood drained out of them. When scientists >examined these mutilated bodies, not a single trace of blood was found either in >the body or on the ground around the body. What I want to know is it possible to >recreate this effect on earth? Sure..if you're a crack surgeon and can do it without vascular collapse..in other words, hardly. Typically in such cases, _no_ blood is found in the mutes, nor around the cattle. Where did it go? What PROOF exists that UFO's have anything to do with mutes? What evidence exists that will incontrovertibly demonstrate that? In other words...we don't KNOW..we only know the effects, but not the cause..we "theorize" and "speculate" that "aliens" have something to do with it, however no evidence can be shown to prove it. >3) Alien races. There are alien races, but how people on earth got their names >is a mystery to me. "Greys" are another matter since some respected UFOlogists >claim to have seen them (Tim Good, Bob Oeschler to name but two). I mean, the >star, not a planet). Gag! Calling Tim Good's book "Alien Liason" 'respectable' is pure bullshit. And _Bob Oechsler_ is a TOTAL Bullshit artist..I HAVE talked with him. Do some more research..the more I see about "respectable experts"..the more of a skeptic I become..the biggest horseshit artists today are Bill Cooper, Stanton Friedman (he actually BUYS Anderson's story about Anderson being a "witness" at the 2nd Roswell crash..pure crap..ask Kevin Randle and Don Ecker of UFO Magazine. But the _biggest_ BS artist of the year award must go to Budd Hopkins and his infamous "Linda case". Listen..read everything you can..and remain skeptical. Ask HARD questions, accept nothing at face value..especially the pronouncements of so-called "experts". Accept nothing on "faith". I've been in this for well over 12 years and question _everything_ . > >4) JW isn't mad, just a disinformer. > Naw..he ain't a dis-informer...just a lonely old man :} Don Allen Fido UFO Echo Moderator -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13518 alt.alien.visitors:12556 alt.religion.kibology:5711 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Bigfoot Is Back. Message-ID: <73496@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 01:26:47 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 50 Subject: Bigfoot Is Back. Well it seems that our friend Bigfoot, or Bigfootb if you like, is back in the news again. It seems they have located a female. So here is how the information goes; ...The female beast "looked incredibly human. " She stood 7 teet tall and smelled "just like a jungle animal." Her legs looked like "coiled springs: and her gigantic hands looked strong enough "to choke a mountain lion." With those remarkale words, a member of a scientific expedition described his amazing encounter witha peaceful Bigfoot in the Chequamegon National Forest in northwestern Wisconsin. "The huge figure was covered with ash-grey hair, but I could see that it was female," anthropologist Kevin Sang told reporters in Milwaukee. : There were bald patches on her body, revealing a gray, coarse skin, and sores from scratching. Her breasts were relatively small but her face was what really stood out. Itt conveyed a simple intelligence, which was later born out by a psychic, Maria Venturi, who was on the expediton with us. She attempted to communicate with the Bgfoot telepathically. She asked the creature what her name was and the answer was Kekha-Tehee. The California-based anthropologist said the expedition was not only an attempt to prove the exisatence of the legendary Bigfoot, but to establish telepathic communication with one. In mid November 23 members of the expedion including psychic Maria trekked into the rugged forest where hunters claimed to have seen a Bigfoot earlier in the year. Sang noted that the psychic's job was twofold; To sense the presence of a Bigfoot and to send out friendly thoughts to lure the creature out of hiding. "We set up camp the night of Noember 18 in an area where Maria sensed a strong presence of a Bigfoot," said the scientist. :We were asleep when it happened. Maria awoke and said she felt like she was being watched by unseen eyes. 'We crawled out of our tents, flicked on our flashlights and there she was, sitting on a rock about 15 yards away. "Even from that distance she had a heavy, pungent odor. "She sat there like an athlete at rest, powerful but relaxed. "In the dim light I could make out her eyes, which were close together, and a long, wide nose with flared nostrils. She had a round face and long hair that seemed to have the texture of lamb's wool. She was staring at me." Sang slowly retrived a camera from a duffel bag and took a photograph of the Bigfoot before the creature rose from the rock, loped toward a 20-foot -wide stream-then jumped to the opposite bank in an amazing single leap. The expediton attempted fo follow the creature's footprints after daybreak. But they were not able to find so much as a clue to her whereabouts. "We're planning to return to the area next spring," said Sang. "And we fully expect to communicate at length with a Bigfoot when we do." This is me JW speaking now. The pictures that are shown with bigfoot stories are normally not authenic but I have seen some pictures of bigfoot that I think were actual pictures of Bigfootb. Source of Information: Weekly World News January 26, 1993. John Wisnton. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13519 alt.alien.visitors:12557 alt.religion.kibology:5712 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc13!pashley From: pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Montykins) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Where's Kibo? Message-ID: <43436@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 13 Jan 93 09:18:39 GMT References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <73424@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: University of California, San Diego Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc13.ucsd.edu In article <73424@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: According to my calculations the Great Kibo should be >returning soon. I hope he posts his paper that says everbody who >sponsors him. >John Winston. Every, I say EVERY SINGLE TIME Mr._-_Winston posts, I check the path line thinking "THIS time, by god, it's a forgery, and someone is mocking him." -Paul "Monty" Ashley (This article brouught to you by the number pi and the letter pi) -- " 'Socks the cat'? What is this?" Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13520 alt.alien.visitors:12558 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Answers. Message-ID: <73497@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 01:49:37 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: Thanks very musch to Chris. You do know a lot about the Desert. Thanks Jeff I need all the help I can get. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: i have a question (SO DO I !!) Message-ID: <73498@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 02:00:54 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <141880.2B5252F8@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I do believe that this person Andre knows where of he speaks. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5714 alt.alien.visitors:12560 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ferengi. Message-ID: <73500@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 02:17:41 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Lines: 6 Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the Ferengi people were thought up in the TV series because they have everyone of the bad trates that we as humans have (let the buyer beware). The Greys are just the opposite of us so mix us together and maybe you'll get some of the good points of each coming through. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13521 alt.alien.visitors:12561 sci.skeptic:36930 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh243!franksb From: franksb@bnr.ca (Frank Stuart-Brown) Subject: Re: They Made Us. Message-ID: <1993Jan13.100011.26106@bnr.uk> Sender: news@bnr.uk (News Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh155 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73429@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 10:00:11 GMT Lines: 22 In article <73429@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Who Made Us? > This "soul" does not have a physical presence on your level of awaremess, >and it is not addicted to time. It is your guarantee of immortality because >it survives the death of you body with memory, personality, and the ability >to perceive intact. "Humanity" is a part of the growth cycle of a very >complex galactic consciousness. > Because you survive bodily death and continue to grow, and because that >growth involes forming highly perfected symbiotic relationships, "humanity" >may be seen as a training ground in which intelligent entities are prepared >and made fit for unions so intimate that the components function with a >single consciousness. Very interesting: anyone interested in reading a good science fiction story with a similar theme has to read Arthur C. Clarke's CHILDHOOD's END -- "On the plains of hesitation lie the bones of countless millions who stopped to view their success, and while resting.......died!" F.Stuart-Brown@nteurope.co.uk TEL 44 924 875012 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13522 alt.alien.visitors:12562 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!walter!oscar!mdl From: mdl@oscar.bellcore.com (Michael Lynch) Subject: Don Allen Message-ID: <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@oscar.bellcore.com (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73242@cup.portal.com> <73324@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 12:51:50 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: [text deleted] |> |> Sheesh..why do I bother reading this newsgroup? |> Don't stop!! You and a few others are the only reason I still subscribe to this group. Your posts are sane and informative, and always interesting. I appreciate the time and trouble you must go to to post some of the lengthy articles I've seen here lately. I use xrn to read the news, and the poster's name is shown next to the article title in the previewer. I weed out most of the garbage here by simply homing in on your name and a few others. Mike Lynch mdl@oscar.bellcore.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!daresbury!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Subject: Re: Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre Message-ID: <1993Jan13.133621.494@crc.ac.uk> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK References: <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> <1993Jan12.193418.1801@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 13:36:21 GMT Lines: 56 In article <1993Jan12.193418.1801@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: > > So I saw Steve's .sig > > I guess this is directed to Steve, but I wanted to do it publicly: > I am not empowered to make public statements on behalf of the Human Genome Mapping Project or the Clinical Research Centre. That is one reason my .sig also carries a disclaimer. > How's it going cloning human beings? > Good question? It looks as if it will be another 10 or 15 years before the human genome is mapped. In my personal opinion cloning humans especially as engineered as you propose will be a long time after that. Of course, if Gary Stollman is a clone he could only have been created by some higher life form, perhaps John Winston and his alien friends. :-) > I attended a Berkeley symposium put on my Michael Lindeman's 2020 group > and one subject that got brought up was that one of the biggest > US government projects at Los Alimos and Larence Labs is the mapping of the > human genome. The implications of this are enormous. Clone solders, make > robots that do anythink you like (slaves) or create look-alikes for > security so nobody knows which Prez is the real thing... I believe that the Department of Energy was given the contract to look after the US end of the Genome Project as it has expertise is running big science projects like building H-bombs and reactors. If by clone you mean that all you soldiers would have identical DNA, I don't think this would make them look or behave identically. Look at studies of identical twins. They do have in many cases many ideas the same and behave similarly. As they get older these similarities seem to decrease. It kind of implies that behaviour and opinions have alot to do with experience rather than genetics. Really what you need is to understand and be able to modify the inner workings of the brain. If you want a bunch of mindless morons who do what they are told you would be better off with machines or rounding up readers of World Weekly News. :-) > > combine that idea with the report from Bob Lazar that the greys refer to > humans as containers, and the fact that the government is inot some > really esoteric stuff like installing the human spirit into clones, > and you have some strong drink to think about. > I understood that a number of people had expressed doubt about Lazar's material. Better not build your house on (potential) sand Steve -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5717 alt.alien.visitors:12564 Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!usenet From: clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu (The_Doge) Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: <1993Jan13.161450.3039@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: The_Doge Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <73500@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 16:14:50 GMT Lines: 16 In article <73500@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the Ferengi people were thought >up in the TV series because they have everyone of the bad trates that >we as humans have (let the buyer beware). The Greys are just the opposite >of us so mix us together and maybe you'll get some of the good points >of each coming through. But what *I* want to know is: howcum the Ferengi developed space travel and transporters and all that neat stuff without *ever* learning anything about basic dentistry? Kinda makes ya go "hmmmmmm". Or "hrrrr" if you're Ferengi. The_Doge ObQuote: "The superstitions of today are the scientific facts of tomorrow!" -- Van Helsing in "Dracula" (Balderston and Dean) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13523 alt.alien.visitors:12565 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Message-ID: <1993Jan13.172146.24663@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 17:21:46 GMT Lines: 39 From article , by chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus): > > Subject: Mitchell Caverns and Dorn Underground Cavern. > If a person is looking for the Underground City near Cadiz and Danby, > Calif. it might be good to know a little more about that general area. etc. > =================================== > This story is nothing new. Check out any good book on the local history on > the Mojave Desert and look for references to Crystal Cave. It's mentioned etc. Chris proceeds to shred any strand of credibility that JW's post might conceivably have aspired to. Right on Chris!! This is exactly the kind of objective rebuttal to JW trash that we need to see more of around here. So, to all you people out there who support JW and say 'he is a man of wisdom beyond your understanding': He is a man of falsehood beyond comprehension. Accept it, deal with your disillusion and move forward. If you are looking for a source of light in these dark times, look to the brilliant blaze of rational thought. Love and TRUTH will set you free. > her next husband died but she said that her husbands always died with a > smile on their face. > John Winston. > =============================== > > Hey, that's great...... > > Chris > -- Thanks Chris, -Max Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13525 alt.alien.visitors:12566 sci.skeptic:36945 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!mcsun!sun4nl!tuegate.tue.nl!rw7.urc.tue.nl!wsadjw From: wsadjw@rw7.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: non-pointless talk. Message-ID: <6991@tuegate.tue.nl> Date: 13 Jan 93 17:06:36 GMT Sender: root@tuegate.tue.nl Reply-To: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands Lines: 11 In article <73429@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: [deleted] I have observed that most of the posts of this mythical character, though pointless and a waste of bandwidth are not pointless in one sense: The subject line ends usually with a point. Most other posters don't have this habit. As my primitive newsreader doesn't list authors, it's very convenient that I can skip his stuff without having to look at the contents. JWN Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13526 alt.alien.visitors:12567 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: Don Allen Message-ID: <1993Jan13.203410.26203@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 20:34:10 GMT Lines: 17 From article <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com>, by mdl@oscar.bellcore.com (Michael Lynch): > In article <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: > > [text deleted] > |> > |> Sheesh..why do I bother reading this newsgroup? > |> > > > Don't stop!! You and a few others are the only reason I still subscribe > to this group. Your posts are sane and informative, and always interesting. > Mike Lynch > mdl@oscar.bellcore.com Ditto for me. -Max Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13527 alt.alien.visitors:12568 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: The Terminator Subject: Re: I give up! (was Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2.) Message-ID: <1993Jan13.211251.28335@netcom.com> Sender: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Organization: I'll Be Back! References: <1993Jan12.142503.14835@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> <1993Jan13.012459.10310@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 21:12:51 GMT Lines: 19 In article <1993Jan13.012459.10310@netcom.com> sgil@netcom.com (Steve Gilbert) writes: >Tom Gorski (gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu) wrote: > >Can't help you there, but... how about we conduct a letter writing >campaign to 'cs@cup.portal.com', Portals' Customer Service E-Mail >address, complaining that one of their customers is posting off-topic >articles that are a complete waste of bandwidth to the world at large? >Such tactics have recently been successful in other groups for reining >in similar nuisance posters. Even a cursory glance through the back- >articles in this group would easily support such a contention. >-- >Steve Gilbert (sgil@netcom.com) Never mind this stuff John. This guy is cruel... I TOOK CARE OF HIM. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Space Aliens Eat Human Feces Message-ID: <15450.2b544918@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 13 Jan 93 16:53:44 EST Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 5 Dear Folks: Hi. I have decided that I am going to start posting in this format. I hope you like the results. Garrett Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Null Space Message-ID: <15451.2b544963@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 13 Jan 93 16:54:59 EST Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 6 Dear Ones: Please don't be confused. I thought you might like to know. In case you were wondering Chris, the triquarter is in the mail. You will get it tomorrow. Garrett Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12571 alt.conspiracy:21751 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Global Deception Conference Message-ID: <1993Jan13.231036.11513@netcom.com> Keywords: William Cooper, Cover-ups Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Jan6.114057.28636@crc.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 23:10:36 GMT Lines: 30 In article <1993Jan6.114057.28636@crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: >Is anybody going to the Global Deception Conference being held at >Wembley Arena on Saturady 9th and Sunday 10th January?? > >There is a weird mix of things. The speakers include : > > Eustace Mullins - who is described as the world's leading conspiricy > historian More accurately described as "the world's leading anti-Semite". > > William Cooper - well known in UFO circles, described as > the world's top specialist on the inner > workings of the New World Order Promoter of zany paranoid theories about the "Illuminati", and every goofy conspiracy you can imagine. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that they are not even superficial." - Friedrich Nietzsche (The Gay Science: 126) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13530 alt.alien.visitors:12572 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!news.encore.com!csar!chattend From: chattend@csar.encore.com (Charlie Hattendorf) Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Message-ID: <1993Jan13.235637.19771@csar.encore.com> Organization: Encore Computer Corporation References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73242@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 23:56:37 GMT Lines: 62 chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus) writes: >In article <73242@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Subject: Mitchell Caverns and Dorn Underground Cavern. >This story is nothing new. Check out any good book on the local history on >the Mojave Desert and look for references to Crystal Cave. It's mentioned >in most of the "lost mine" stories. Also as a point of information, this >site is not between Barstow and Needles, but between Barstow and Searchlight, >NV. After finding the "river of gold" Dorn (I can't verify the name right >now) blew up the entrance himself so others couldn't find it. He couldn't >raise the money for further development and thus end of story. Another >company owns the site currently and is not disclosing any more information. >File it somewhere with the Oak Island stuff. >=================================== > realize that more UFO are seen in this area than any other place I have even > been in. >=================================== >No more than any other area. I've been camping and hiking around in the >Mojave for 11 years and haven't seen anything that I would consider to be >"unidentified." Bear in mind also that the 29 Palms Marine Station, Ft. Irwin, >China Lake Naval Station, and Nellis AFB are all in the area and conduct >weapons testing. >=================================== > A US government ownes a cavern that takes people into it and is called > Mitchell Caverns and it is in that general area. >=================================== >This is incorrect. Mitchell Caverns is a state park and thus under the >jurisdiction of the State of California. The East Mojave Scenic Area >is under Federal control. BLM takes care of everything else. Also, Mitchell >Caverns is about 35 air miles (50 by road) away from the Crystal Caverns >site. I've been inside Mitchell Caverns and haven't seen anything too out >of the ordinary. >================================== > My friend Marge Bell used to live just south of the filling station at >Hey, that's great...... >Chris >-- >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Chris Barrus - P.O. Box 5115 - Irvine - CA - 92716 - chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu > Sacred cows make the best hamburger - Abbie Hoffman >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the update, Chris.... * Charlie Hattendorf Realtime Computer support - /| * * Technical Representative While you wait! /-|MIGA works. * * 619-939-9252 NWC/ECRD "Build a system any fool can use, and only a fool * * internet: chattend@encore.com would want to use it" Murphy's corollaries * * views expressed are mine(d) alone. "There's AU in 'dem 'thar hills..." * Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13531 alt.alien.visitors:12573 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!news.encore.com!csar!chattend From: chattend@csar.encore.com (Charlie Hattendorf) Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Message-ID: <1993Jan14.000808.20130@csar.encore.com> Organization: Encore Computer Corporation References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73242@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan12.234038.3129@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 00:08:08 GMT Lines: 35 jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >In article chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus) writes: >> >>No more than any other area. I've been camping and hiking around in the >>Mojave for 11 years and haven't seen anything that I would consider to be >>"unidentified." Bear in mind also that the 29 Palms Marine Station, Ft. Irwin, >>China Lake Naval Station, and Nellis AFB are all in the area and conduct >>weapons testing. >Bear in mind that China Lake and Nellis are full of underground bases that >local construction workers are reporting sightings of aliens working with >scientists at the lower levels. >Source: 2020 Group, Michael Lindemann - Several eyewitness reports were >broadcast (the individuals themselves were taped) on KPFA Berkeley radio >station. >jeff- Jeff, being as I work at China Lake I would like more info on the 2020 Group, Michael Lindemann et al.... I suppose I could contact KPFA for transcripts, do you know of any other source? Needless to say, I have not encountered the underground bases/alien types! P.S. Of course my partner, who I share an office with, has been acting a little strange lately! * Charlie Hattendorf Realtime Computer support - /| * * Technical Representative While you wait! /-|MIGA works. * * 619-939-9252 NWC/ECRD "Build a system any fool can use, and only a fool * * internet: chattend@encore.com would want to use it" Murphy's corollaries * * views expressed are mine(d) alone. "There's AU in 'dem 'thar hills..." * Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: i have a question (SO DO I !!) Message-ID: Date: 13 Jan 93 11:32:17 GMT References: <141880.2B5252F8@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 38 Nntp-Posting-Host: rib.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Andre Eichner (Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG) wrote: > Hello sorgatz! > Wednesday January 06 1993, sorgatz writes to All: > >> Dear Folks: I should have stated that the man was one armed (he had one > >> arm missing) in my last postings. The planet Venus is a very hot place > >> and not hospitable to humans in the third dimension, but in the 4th > >> dimension it is quite a nice place. Humans can visit there is their > >> astral form and the space people can change a human's molecturlar > >> structure so that we can exist there also. It takes about a two week > >> conditioning period. John Winston. > s> Aw Jeez...Winston...do you make this stuff up as you go or do you have a > s> script writer run it up for you?? Just how, exactly, do you know this? I > s> can't imagine a means (enclosures aside) of getting human life to survive > s> the environment of Venus. 600+ degrees, poisonous atmosphere...c'mon..get > s> real! "The Space People"...you sound as silly as George Adamski. Where's > s> your proof? Got *anything* to back this twaddle up? > John's information is correct! The 4th dimension is a light dimension and quite different from the 3rd (physical) dimension. Only the earth has beings in the physical dimension, some other planets in solar system hast beings on 4th and higher light dimensions including the sun (YES!)! > Put your limitations of your consciousness away and you can understand! > And you can comunicate with beings from other dimensions, too! > It's very interesting and a wonderfull experience. > The live in the universe is love and light and joy... > Belive it or not... the time comes where you can't look away! Soon! > Galactic greetings > Andre WRONG! The fourth dimension is time, although I do grant you that there is a theory that you can travel backwards and forwards in time by travelling at the speed of light, but since no machine on earth has broken the speed of light this cannot be proven. The Cursor Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Date: 13 Jan 93 11:51:40 GMT References: <1993Jan12.110654.20616@crc.ac.uk> Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 47 Nntp-Posting-Host: rib.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Steve Gamble x3293 (sgamble@crc.ac.uk) wrote: > In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: > > I've been reading this newsgroup for a while now and would like to introduce > > some form of debate for readers to pick up on (JW excluded). > > > > > > 3) Alien races. There are alien races, but how people on earth got their names > > is a mystery to me. "Greys" are another matter since some respected UFOlogists > > claim to have seen them (Tim Good, Bob Oeschler to name but two). > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > This sounds interesting. I have not heard the claim that Tim Good has seen > 'Greys' himself before. Can you provide a reference? > Thanks, > Steve In a radio interview with Nicky Cambell he said that he had heard that there are aliens in New York that are very telepathic, so he decided to test this theory. What he did was sit down in the foyer of a New York hotel and started repeating in his mind something along the lines of "if any extraterrestial beings can pick up this message, please can to this hotel". After about half an hour, a gentleman with very grey skin sat down next to him in the foyer, so Tim said in his mind "if you are an extraterrestial being, rub the side of your nose with you right index finger". Just as soon as he had thought this, the man did exactly that, and did so for quite some time. Tim didn't know what else to do so he left it at that. The description of the man he gave was greyish skin and eyes that had larger pupils than usual, but dressed in a smart suit. In Tim's book "Alien Liaisons" he recounted that while getting help from Bob Oeschler (not sure if spelling is correct, pronounced "esh-ler"), Bob told him a story that happened soon after Bob Lazar was caught taking him and some other people to Area 51 to watch some UFO flight tests. Bob was at a bar with his girlfriend, his mind was suddenly filled with panic and hitherto forgotten memories. He looked around the bar and saw this grey gentleman staring at him. Bob pointed at him and yelled to his girlfriend "that's him! That's him!" and the gentleman went out of the bar. Bob's girlfriend then went after the gentleman and when she caught up with him, he looked at her and she suddenly wanted to leave him alone. Both of the gentleman had grey skin and eyes with larger than usual pupils and telepathic powers. Wether these are "Greys" or some other race of alien I don't know. Hope that helps. The Cursor. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Message to the "Greys" Message-ID: <1993Jan13.162029.7776@ntb.ch> Keywords: ETs Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (Mr. Usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 16:20:29 GMT Lines: 25 MESSAGE TO "THE GREYS" (OR OTHER ETs WILLING TO COMMUNICATE) Greetings. I apologise for the epithet, maybe you can supply us with a better one? I am assuming that you have full access to our communications networks and that you even keep an eye on this newsgroup. Would you be prepared to communicate with us through this medium? I think it might help a lot if you could answer a few questions. You can of course select which questions you answer. Otherwise would you be prepared to make a statement? It would also be of advantage if you could reply in some way that can't be faked by terrestrials, but I don't know all the possibilities. Thank you in advance. Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Xref: icaen alt.quotations:1119 alt.zines:344 alt.society.revolution:586 alt.paranormal:6299 alt.pagan:24936 alt.non.sequitur:1497 alt.bacchus:173 alt.alien.visitors:12577 Newsgroups: alt.quotations,alt.zines,alt.society.revolution,alt.paranormal,alt.pagan,alt.non.sequitur,alt.bacchus,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!usenet From: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Subject: =={ Unplastic News #8 }== Message-ID: <1993Jan14.031635.11826@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 03:16:35 GMT Lines: 1 This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12578 alt.religion.kibology:5728 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: Bigfoot Is Back. Organization: AT&T Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 04:45:18 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan14.044518.18166@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Followup-To: alt.poochky.whereareyou References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <73496@cup.portal.com> Lines: 39 In article <73496@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > ...The female beast "looked incredibly human. You found my wife!! Thank you, thank you. xo xo xo !! > " She stood 7 teet tall and smelled "just like a jungle animal." Her legs > looked like "coiled springs: and her gigantic hands looked strong enough > "to choke a mountain lion." That's her, we used to play basketball together, before she was abducted. > "The huge figure was covered with ash-grey hair, was female," Well, she has been gone for some time. Before her abduction(two years ago?), her hair was a soft gentle brown or chestnut. > There were bald patches on her body, revealing a gray, coarse skin, > and sores from scratching. Oh God!! What have those fiends done to my poochky?? > Her breasts were relatively small but her face > was what really stood out. Itt conveyed a simple intelligence, > which was later born out by a psychic She is(was)quite intelligent thank you. Her breasts were big as beach balls, and her face...ahh, her face, like that of chiseled granite. And she could fart like a tuba section echoing in the clear crisp quiet of the Swiss alps!! How can I contact her?? Do you know approximately where in Wisconsin? A phone number? The kids are anxious to re-unite, any leads?? Help bring us back together. Thanks aload, Lonely and longing for my poochky- Xref: icaen alt.flame:49315 alt.religion.scientology:3959 alt.alien.visitors:12579 talk.bizarre:88579 Newsgroups: alt.flame,alt.religion.scientology,alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!princeton!siemens!aad From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) Subject: Re: HAY U GUYS R ALL LUZERZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Message-ID: <1993Jan13.174827.9925@siemens.com> Sender: news@siemens.com (NeTnEwS) Nntp-Posting-Host: lovecraft.siemens.com Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ References: <1issvoINNojf@life.ai.mit.edu> <1it8l9INNr1c@tamsun.tamu.edu> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 17:48:27 GMT Lines: 7 >Look, guys, I just caught me a frosh! Mail the man a Jargon file! Naw, then we'd have people who *aren't* dwarves saying "Frotz! Moby lossage!" to empty coke machines. -- ======================================================================8--< Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13533 alt.alien.visitors:12580 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2. Date: 14 Jan 1993 00:39:25 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1j2cntINN2g5@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73367@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article , cluster@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (General Access) says: > >In article <73367@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: Bla bla bla.... >>The End. >>John Winston., > > >what does this guy take? DMA?? "I think he did a little too much LDS in the sixties " {Kirk} or He's a dis-information agent. There my two favorites. Peter T. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Date: 14 Jan 93 04:17:47 GMT References: Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 39 u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: 1) Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, I have frequently come accross cattle mutilations. This is when cattle have parts of their bodies cut out very precisely and all their blood drained out of them. When scientists examined these mutilated bodies, not a single trace of blood was found either in the body or on the ground around the body. What I want to know is it possible to recreate this effect on earth? ... I suspect its possible, provided you do it very carefully elsewhere (with a lot more than a pocket knife), and then deposit the bloodless carcass (by air, so as to avoid tire-tracks, footprints, etc.) where it will be eventually found. I have not read too heavily into CM's; what is the typical status of the bone marrow? 2) Crop circles. All are hoaxes. Speaking as a hoaxer myself, I've found that the "experts" cannot tell a natural circle from a manmade one, so any research would be pointless. ... a curious paragraph. In the first sentence you say all are hoaxes, but then in the second you refer to "natural" ones. No offense, sir, but you are one of the reasons that "any research would be pointless." Disinformation comes in many forms, and from many sources -- including, apparently, yourself. 3) Alien races. There are alien races, but how people on earth got their names is a mystery to me. "Greys" are another matter since some respected UFOlogists claim to have seen them (Tim Good, Bob Oeschler to name but two). I mean, the Centaurians from Alpha Centauri, I ask you! (For those that don't know, AC is a star, not a planet). ... perhaps they were named, like many things, by somebody, and the name caught on. Names are often somewhat inaccurate - naming our planet "Earth" is pretty silly, for instance, since it mostly isn't - nothing to warrant such passion, surely. Charles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6 From: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Space Aliens Eat Human Feces Date: 14 Jan 1993 07:29:47 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 7 Message-ID: <1j34pbINNmrr@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu Garrett: Are you simply deranged, or do you just want us to view less criti- cally the other disruptive, troubled creatures that occasionally smear their bizarre scribblings across this board? -- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6 From: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Null Space Date: 14 Jan 1993 07:32:34 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 7 Message-ID: <1j34uiINNmt8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu Whoa -- Let's keep sharp objects away from this one! (I begin to see how wasting bandwidth might be fun for some people.) -- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12584 alt.noise:52 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.noise Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Null Space Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology,misc.test Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1j34uiINNmt8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 07:51:37 GMT Lines: 996 In article <1j34uiINNmt8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) writes: > >(I begin to see how wasting bandwidth might be fun for some people.) What is bandwidth and how can I waste it? -- K. A REALLY NEAT .SIGNATURE FOLLOWS, PRESS "NO" IF YOU DONT WANT TO SEE IT !!!111 ^ L .SIGNATURE UNDER CONSTRUCTION....... LAST REVISED 5/12/1990 11:02:32 PM AND ALSO LAST REVISED 5/22/90 11:27:59 PM AND 8/22/1990 10:03:16 PM TOO AND 8/25/90 01:57:08 PM AND 11/11/90 12:35:53 AM <-- LAST TIME!! (WOW, FOUR 1'S IN A ROW!!!!) AND 7/8/91 2:06:03 AM <-- LATE NIGHT!! AND 9/6/91 2:51:26AM <--- LATER!!! AND 2/9/91^H^H92 4:25:43AM <--- WOW!!!! AND 7/8/92 1:58:59AM <-- CALL IT 2!!! AND 7/31/92 1:27:49AM <-- JUST FOR ONE NEW LINE!!!! NOT COUNTING THE ABOVE ONE OF COURSE!!!!!!!! AND 12:58:53 9/11/92 FOR ONE MORE!!! NOW IT'S DONE!!!! AND 9/25/92 1:24:33AM <-- AGAIN!!! AND 9.29.92 2L37L48AM AND 10/6/92 3:18:31AM <-- LATE BEDTIME HUH !!!! COPYRIGHT (C) COPYR.1988,1990,1989,1992 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED TODOS LOS DERECHOS RESERVADOS!!! THIS POSTING MAY NOT BE REPORDUCED IN ANY FORM WITHOUT MY WRITTEN PERMISSION OR SOLD FOR MONETARY FINANCIAL PROFIT. AND 6/13/92 3:45:26PM <-- FRI THE 13TH !!! I WROTE IT ALL BY MYSELF BUT THANKS TO MARK AND JASON DOMINUS, AND TO MATHEW WHOSE LAST NAME I FORGOT!!! AND ALL THOSE AUSSIES NAMED "IAIN"!!! I DIDN'T MAKE ANY SPELLING ERRERS SO YOU CAN'T POST THIS SIGNATURE TO ALT.FAN.WARLORD!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^L THIS IS YOUR BRAIN. ___ /(()\ \__\| THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON THE INTERNET. ___ +-----+ /(()\ | VAX | \__\|===+_____+ ^L ____ / \__ |\ / @ \ \ \_______| \ .:|> "Dogs aren't ALLOWED? WAAAAAAH!" \ ##| | \__/ | ####\__/ \ -- Spot / / ## \| / /__________\ \ L_JJ \__JJ S C R A T C H A N D S N I F F to enjoy the aromatic aroma of beautiful downtown schenectady !!!! _____________________________________________________________________________ james "kibo" parry, 151 tremont st #8u, boston ma 02111 <- not schenectady. kibo@world.std.COM _________________________________________________ kibo@world.COM@uunet.COM / Kibology / Anything I say is my opinion, kibo@world.BITNET@bitnet.COM is better! / and is the opposite of Xibo's. __________________________/_____________/_____________________________________ "All colors are arbitrary." --Carl Sagan / Bozos use anything but emacs! __________________________________________/___________________________________ Wacky, wild, Kibo style! / You're allowed. 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Now I have.........? _____________________________________________________________________________ Anyone who thinks anyone else should be shot should be shot; the NRA is a bunch of bozos just like the Democrats AND Republicans AND Williard Scott. Kill the Fascists and Communists and all the other nuts too. Kill 'em all! _____________________________________________________________________________ "I'm Batman!" -- BATMAN THE MOVIE / This space intentionally left blank. (THE BEST MOVIE IN THE WORLD!!!!) / __________________________________/__________________________________________ Elvis lives. / "I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay..." --MONTY PYTHON / Hug me _____________/_____________________________________________________/_________ Did I spell anything wrong? If so, please tell me so I can post a correction. _____________________________________________________________________________ |\ My favorite PostScript font is Chicago! Times Roman is just a cheap --- \ ripoff of the real New York. And you don't even have to be in Chicago ___ / to use Chicago! I printed my whole resume in 36pt Chicago Bold Shadow! __|/_________________________________________________________________________ | "Beauty and the Beast" may be cancelled, but it lives on forever in our | | hearts and minds and hearts! It will live forever even though it's dead!| |___________________________________________________________________________| Can I have a cookie? / The Kibology Center is a non-non-profit arm of the _____________________/ National Association for Kibological Awareness(NAKA). I'M 100% FLAMEPROOF /________________________________________________________ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Harry Graber, age 11, is dying of a fatal disease which will eventually kill him. Before he dies, he would like to be in the "Guinness" Book of "Records" for receiving the most postcards in the mail. Please send him lots of postcards at the below address: Kibo, PO Box 722, Boston MA 02116-0722 (USA) Although he is very ill and only barely clinging to life, he gets thousands of postcards a day from people like you. He writes back, personally, to each and every single one. Amazingly, everyone who writes to Harry recieves a year of good luck afterwards! Mrs. Bertha Briggs of Poughkeepsie, NY recently wrote to Harry and then won the lottery the very next day--AND her dog was cured of cancer! Plus, if you write now, Harry will send you his miracle POSTCARD DIET which will allow you to lose 100 pounds a week! THIS IS NOT A SCAM! This service is FREE! Please enclose $14.95 for postage and handling. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% HANDY "TWIN PEEKS" CHART [murder]<-->[LAURA]<--/-->[Bob]<--["Bob"] | ^ | ^ This is fun to read even if you haven't v v v | seen the series. I like my chart, and [David [That FBI guy] ["J.R."] I've never seen the show! Lynch] ^ ^ / | | v [donuts] [Bobby in [the log lady]<->[flouridation]-->["Eraserheads"] = the shower] ^ ^ [sex] | | | /->[Monty Python's Flying Circles] v [bag [lumber- /->[Ted Bundy] ladies] jacks]<--["RoboJox"]<->[VW]<->[FOX]-->[Al&Peg Bundy] ^ | ^ \->[Children] | v | [the dog-faced boy]-->[Laura's<-/->[the Simpsons]<--[Life in Hell]<--[UseNet] evil twin] | v And remember, the name of the show is a breast metaphor. [alt.tv.twin.peeks] ^ ^ | ^ / | v | [Mike Douglas]=[Douglas firs]-->[breasts] [drumsticks] [rmgroups] /->[logs] | \______________________________________/ ^ v | [Albert]<--/-->[furry white rats]-->[green rats]-->[traffic [the log lady] ^ lights] (here too!) | [walk with fire me]---> ^ ^ [Layland]<-->[Pinky Lee] | | [Herve Villachaise]<--[tattoos] ["Bob"] _____________________________________________________________________________ My favroite sci-fi/fantasy short story is / VOTE NIXON / The SubGenius "The Eye of Argon" by L. Ron Hubbard! / IN 1992 / must wear slacks! _________________________________________/______________/____________________ Best Skeleton Joke Ever: "What do you call fish bones?" 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SIMPSON e | THE MOST AWESOME HEAVY METAL BAND !!! _____________________________________|_______________________________________ ^L ^L # # #### # # # ##### ###### # # # ,, # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ##### # #\__/# # # ##### # # # # # # # # # # #### #### # # ###### ## # # #### # # ###### #### ## # # # # # oo # # # # # # ## # # # # # # # # ##### # # ## ###### # # #\__/# # ## # # # # ## # # # # # # ## ## # # # # # ###### ###### #### # # ###### #### ## HAVE A NICE DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PLEASE POST YOUR REPLIES TO THIS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT MY NET ADDRESS IS! ALSO PLEASE CROSS-POST TO LOTS OF GROUPS SINCE IT MIGHT NOT BE A GROUP I READ! []---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[] This blank region of empty space is a hollow void that adds lines to the length of this .signature's physical size. []---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[] ***** ___ ___ _________ * / \ / \ | _______ | * | V | | | * * | | HELP ME NAME MY * \ / | |_____| | APPLE SE/30 WITH * \ / | === | 40MB MEGABYTE DRIVE * \ / |_________| ***** v ||||||||| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) <--- Aren't these cute? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) <--- I was the one who :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) <--- invented them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |\ ---*-- | \ -""" \__| \ / : Qld : TAS \ / :........ \ ' SA : AA :.......*| x = Schenectady NY USA \ : * :NSW / \* :/""""""\`..x */ ----' VIC\ *`./ """" \"""/ NT\*/ Dan Quayle is Howdy Doody! (And Susan Sontag is the Bride of Frankenstein!) +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | S T O P C A S T I N G P O R O S I T Y | +____________________________________________________________________________+ I've been to Cheers(TM) in downtown Boston and I have a T-Shirt that says Cheers(TM) and the official Cheers(TM) Plastic Souvenir Shopping Bag! Hey, is Ted Danson really as bald as they say? He couldn't be, his hair's fluffy, and wigs can't be fluffy! William Shatner wears a toupee though, I bet you didn't know that! I hope I never go bald. I'd lose my sex appeal. _____________________________________________________________________________ Fats Loves Madelyn. / Honk if you hate bumper stickers that say "Honk if ..." ___________________/_________________________________________________________ "We're like gerbils. We're in a cage running around and around." -- Tom Brokaw _____________________________________________________________________________ "OH WHAT A ZINGER!!!" -- CHRIS ELIOT / "Married With Children" is the best GET A LIFE / TV show ever! Ted is the greatest! _____________________________________/_______________________________________ Fly KLM! / Did you hear that PeeWee Herman was arrested for masterbating? __________/____ Really!______________________________________________________ Dana Hersey is Willie Whistle in addition to hosting The Movie Loft (channel 6) _____________________________________________________________________________ Read alt.exploding.kibo, the group about exploding kibo! / NO FATE ________________________________________________________/ I put microwave coffee in the Tater Twister and almost / KNOW FUTURE went back in time! -- Steven Wright (Emerson alumnus)/ _____________________________________________________/ NO DOGS ALLOWED "NOT!" -- WAYNE'S WORLD / "The Stevemeisterooski!" / ________________________/__________________________/_________POOR SPOT______ "If I had MY OWN NETWORK, it would be on ALL the TIME. It would be EDUCATIONAL, like COSMOS and NOVA, but not so DRY. It would best be seen on HIGH-definition TELEVISION. And every DAY we'd READ from the BOOK of CHER, because when you READ from the BOOK of CHER, it doesn't MATTER if you UNDERSTAND... it's the ACT that MATTERS. MY network would be METAphysical, paraNORMAL, and EXTRAORDINARILY ORDINARY. It would COMPEL you to RELAX and read `MADAME BOVARY', LOOK into the MOUTHS of VOLCANOES and LEARN to make RISOTTO... It would have a LINEAR BUILD and ARISTOTELIAN LINES... MY network would be both JARRING and AVANT-GARDE... with just a TOUCH of BRIAN DENNEHY. MY network would not promote WAR, WASTE, DOUBT or ANXIETY, and would pose the question... What was MICHELLE PFEIFFER doing in `Grease 2'?" -- Sean E. Coates, the "E!" poster child **************************(.signature continued)******************************* HOW MANY POSTS A DAY I MADE LAST WEEK *************************************************************************** * * * * * * * * * * ** W*T T*W*T T*WT ** * W*T*F M*T* *F * F M* *F M * * T* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * M * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * ** * M S*S SS S*S S*S * * * * * S * * ^Labor Day ^Sep 14 ^Sep 28 * * * * * * * * 240 -x- 280 0 -y- 15000*************************************************** ******************************************************************************* MY TEN FAVORITE QUOTES: Broad-mindedness, n.: The result of flattening high- mindedness out. There is a certain impertinence in allowing oneself to be burned for an opinion. All the good ones are taken. "Microwave oven? Whaddya mean, it's a microwave oven? I've been watching Channel 4 on the thing for two weeks." Murphy was an optimist. Love means having to say you're sorry every five minutes. No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats -- approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less. Get forgiveness now -- tomorrow you may no longer feel guilty. Commitment can be illustrated by a breakfast of ham and eggs. The chicken was involved, the pig was committed. You are here ------> * But you're not all there. Kirkland, Illinois, law forbids bees to fly over the village or through any of its streets. Love and scandal are the best sweeteners of tea. A clairvoyant is a person, commonly a woman, who has the power of seeing that which is invisible to her patron -- namely, that he is a blockhead. A multi-day event on public television, used to raise money so you won't have to watch commercials. Try to get all of your posthumous medals in advance. The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an expanding bureaucracy. The intelligence of any discussion diminishes with the square of the number of participants. The hearing ear is always found close to the speaking tongue, a custom whereof the memory of man runneth not howsomever to the contrary, nohow. Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example. -- La Rouchefoucauld Professor Gorden Newell threw another shutout in last week's Chem. Eng. 130 midterm. Once again no student received a single point on his exam. Newell has now tossed 5 shutouts this quarter. Newell's earned exam average has now dropped to a phenomenal 30%"Consequences, Schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich." -- "Ali Baba Bunny" [1957, Chuck Jones] Marriage is the only adventure open to the cowardly. -- Voltaire The First Rule of Program Optimization: Don't do it. The Second Rule of Program Optimization (for experts only!): Don't do it yet. -- Michael Jackson Goldenstern's Rules: (1) Always hire a rich attorney (2) Never buy from a rich salesman. The problem ... is that we have run out of dinosaurs to form oil with. Scientists working for the Department of Energy have tried to form oil using other animals; they've piled thousands of tons of sand and Middle Eastern countries on top of cows, raccoons, haddock, laboratory rats, etc., but so far all they have managed to do is run up an enormous bulldozer-rental bill and anger a lot of Middle Eastern persons. None of the animals turned into oil, although most of the laboratory rats developed cancer. -- Dave Barry, "Postpetroleum Guzzler" If a 6600 used paper tape instead of core memory, it would use up tape at about 30 miles/second. -- Grishman, Assembly Language Programming Peanut Blossoms 4 cups sugar 16 tbsp. milk 4 cups brown sugar 4 tsp. vanilla 4 cups shortening 14 cups flour 8 eggs 4 tsp. soda 4 cups peanut butter 4 tsp. salt Shape dough into balls. Roll in sugar and bake on ungreased cookie sheet at 375 F. for 10-12 minutes. Immediately top each cookie with a Hershey's kiss or star pressing down firmly to crack cookie. Makes a hell of a lot. Gyroscope, n.: A wheel or disk mounted to spin rapidly about an axis and also free to rotate about one or both of two axes perpendicular to each other and the axis of spin so that a rotation of one of the two mutually perpendicular axes results from application of torque to the other when the wheel is spinning and so that the entire apparatus offers considerable opposition depending on the angular momentum to any torque that would change the direction of the axis of spin. -- Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary. In fifteen minutes, everyone will be famous. -- Andy Warhol _______________________________________________________________________________ .--------------. .---' o . `---. .-' . O . . `-. .-' @@@@@@ . `-. .'@@ @@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@ . `. .'@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@ `. /@@@ o @@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@ O \ / @@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ @@@@@@@@@ @@ . \ /@ o @@@@@@@@@@@ . @@ @@@@@@@@@@@ @@ \ /@@@ . @@@@@@ o @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@ o @@@@ \ /@@@@@ @ . @@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@ \ |@@@@@ O `.-./ . . @@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@ | / @@@@@ --`-' o @@@@@@@@@@@ @@@ . \ Full Moon + |@ @@@@ . @ @ ` @ @@ . @@@@@@ | 0 5:15:36 | @@ o @@ . @@@@@@ | Last Quarter - | . @ @ @ o @@ o @@@@@@. | 7 3:55:27 \ @ @ @ .-. @@@@ @@@ / | @ @ @ `-' . @@@@ . . | \ . o @ @@@@ . @@ . . / \ @@@ @@@@@@ . o / \ @@@@@ @@\@@ / O . / \ o @@@ \ \ / __ . . .--. / \ . . \.-.--- `--' / `. `-' . .' `. o / | ` O . .' `-. / | o .-' `-. . . .-' `---. . .---' `--------------' I AM NOT A BOZO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^L ____|||||/// / |||||//// TERMINATOR TWO: BEST MOVIE IN THE WORLD !!!!!11 / __ || //// | L| : === "Hasta la vista, baby!" -- ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER | | __ : ___ =|= (a personal friend) | (_) :/__) | |/ | \| <--- THE TERMINATOR | .\ | \ \ \ : / I HOPE TERMINATOR THREE DOESN'T SUCK DEAD BUNNIES | HHH--- | THRU A STRAW LIKE BATMAN TWO !!!!!11 \____:___/ "THERE IS NO BATHROOM" -- MY PAL ARNOLD, KINDERGARTEN COP ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;;;;::::;:::::::::::::: My son Herbie, age 7, needs a computer for school and I can't afford one, would anyone like to give us one? It would be a tax deduction for you! Herbie wants a Mac IIfx with a Color PostScript printer. He needs this by next week! All the other kids in his class have them already!!! /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ STAR TREK RULEZ!!! ________^_______ ============= - - - - - - - - - \______ _____/\ / / - - - - - - - Write-in to Paramount V \ \_____/__/_ - - - - WHOOSH! - - - to keep them from killing Spock )|US ENTERPRISE/ - - - - - - - in their next movie!!!! |____________/ - - - - - - - - - - TOP TEN STAR TREK QUOTES 10) "I'm a doctor, not a mechanic." 9) "Dammit Jim!" 8) "Spit it out, man!" 7) "I kinna do it Captain, I have not th' power!" 6) "Where's the beef?" 5) "They're BORN pregnant!" 4) "His BRAIN is missing!" "Oh... you noticed." ** send mail if you want the rest ** Majel Barett was only on STAR TREK because she was married to William Shatner. The new STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION new series that they're making now is too full of Yuppie bozos. And the special effects are too good. SHATNER COULDN'T DIRECT HIS WAY OUT OF THE BATHROOM WITH BOTH HANDS AND A MAP! ------------------------------------=----------------------------------------- I have discovered a truly wonderful proof of Fermat's Last Theorem, but unfortunately this .signature is too small to contain it. -----------------------------------=---------------------------------------------- There exist no legitimate audio tapes of me admitting to being an alien, a government agent, a sexual pervert, or the camp-follower of little grey men from Zeta Reticuli. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ I watch Nick at Nite all day! Xibo watches stupid soap operas! /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ MY .SIGNATURE IS MORE POSTMODERN THAN YOURS! (It's even autographed by William S. Burroughs. See--->?) / \/\/. \. Burroughs / I wish he hadn't stopped writing those Tarzan books though!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have an out-of-date copy of each of the following MTS manuals: Vol. 1, 2, 5, 7, 11, 14, 15, 16, and 24. If you want a copy, I'm selling 'em, $1 each. I also have lots of plastic bags for five cents each! /\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\ _________ / \ | | \__\ /__/ --| |-- -| |- /| |\ /////\\\\\\ NUKE THE DAMN BUNNY ALREADY!!!! | _ \ / UU __ ==/ \ /\__o | *|__\__/ /_ \_ "boomp boomp boomp boomp boomp..." "BOOM!!!!!!!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ***** ***** ***** **************** ****************** ***** ***** ***** ***************** ******************** ***** ***** ***** ****************** ********************** ***** ***** ***** ***** ****** ****** ****** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** My ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** name ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** is ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** short ***** *************** ***** *************** ***** 'cause ***** **************** ***** **************** ***** it's ***** ***************** ***** ***************** ***** only ***** ***** ****** ***** ***** ****** ***** four ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** letters! ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ****** ****** ****** ***** ***** ***** ****************** ********************** ***** ***** ***** ***************** ******************** ***** ***** ***** **************** ****************** AND THIS IS THE PART OF THE .SIG THAT BROKE MIKE JITTLOV'S AMIGA!!! V guvax guvf dhbgr ol Qnir Oneel, zl snibevgr jevgre, rkcynvaf jul V bsgra jrne zl haqrejrne ba zl urnq jura V tb gb jbex: Nyy lbh unir gb qb gb frr gur npphenpl bs zl gurfvf vf ybbx nebhaq lbh. Ybbx, va cnegvphyne, ng gur crbcyr jub, yvxr lbh, ner znxvat nirentr vapbzrf sbe qbvat nirentr wbof -- onax ivpr cerfvqragf, vafhenapr fnyrfzna, nhqvgbef, frpergnevrf bs qrsrafr -- naq lbh'yy ernyvmr gurl nyy qerff gur fnzr jnl, rffragvnyyl gur jnl gur znaardhvaf va gur Frnef zrafjrne qrcnegzrag qerff. Abj ybbx ng gur erny fhpprffrf, gur crbcyr jub znxr n ybg zber zbarl guna lbh -- Rygba Wbua, Pncgnva Xnatnebb, nalobql sebz Fnhqv Nenovn, Ovt Oveq, naq fb ba. Gurl nyy qerff shaal -- naq gurl nyy fhpprrq. Ner lbh pngpuvat ba? -- Qnir Oneel, "Ubj gb Qerff sbe Erny Fhpprff" TO DECODE THE FUNNIST JOKE IN THE UNIVERSE JUST PIPE THAT THROUGH "UUDECODE(1)" _____________________________________________________________________________ R-RATED GIF FOLLOWS, PRESS N NOW! ^L O (.|.) ).( TIFFANY BRISSETE HAS A GREAT BOD! WOO WOO!!!! HUBBA HUBBA! YOW! ( | ) \|/ ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| fee fi fo feh. fee fi fo feh. fee fi fo feh. fee fi fo feh. fee fi fo feh. _____________________________________________________________________________ "100% gist-free!" -- Amy S. Brockman on Kibo's .signature. Compliment... or CONSPIRACY? ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// My favorite painters are Pollock, Rothko, Warhol, Dali', Miro', Tanguy, Rockwell, Warhol, and myself. I'm almost as good as Dali' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My least favorite musical composer is Salieri, since he was a bozo. ____________________ / \ / \ ^______________/ __ __ \______________^ \ | / \ / \ | / \ | | o | | o | | / \ | \__/__ \__/ | / \ | / \ | / \ | \__/ | / BO- \____| __________ |____/ -ZO | / ________ \ | \ | / ______ \ | / \ |/_/ \_\| / \____________________/ | | \ | / \----+-----/ | | | /\ / \ / \ _____________/ \____________ (clown shoes) ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Ich bin ein .signature Virus. Mach' mit und kopiere mich in Deine .signature. Don't ask what it means, just put it in your .signature, okay? _____________________________________________________________________________ THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED IN THIS POSTING ARE SOLELY THE AUTHORS' AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION, RENSSELAER POLY- POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE, PENN STATE, IBM, NASA, HARVARD UNIVERSITY, SCIENTOLOGY, ATARI CORP., STANFORD UNIVERSITY, BITNET INC., SOFTWARE TOOL & DIE, INFOCOM, PRODIGY, RALSTON PURINA INC., JAPAN, LYNDON LaROUCHE, THE SYSOP OF USENET, GEORGE BUSH, THE LONDON TIMES, ORACLE CORPORATION, WILLIE WHISTLE, STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION, THE HOME SHOPPING CLUB, THE HAIR CHANNEL FOR MEN, OR THE CITY OF NEW YORK. HOWEVER YOU CAN'T SUE ME FOR SAYING ANY OF THIS BECAUSE IF YOU SUE ME YOU'D HAVE TO QUOTE ME IN COURT AND THEN I'D SUE YOU FOR QUOTING THIS COPYRIGHTED (C) MESSAGE!!! MY COUSINS ARE ALL LAWYERS !!!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ****************************************************************************** * NEW drawing! * * of a RADIK00L sword thats even BIGGER then the USS ENTERPRISE wow! * * * * ___ * * /\/ / ====@==== ///////// --------- * / _/ ``________// * * / / `------' ------------- * / / * * __===__ / / * */ \/----+---------------------------------------\______ * *| | XCALIBER THE DECAPITATER!!!! \______________* *| | /~~~~~~~~ * *\__====_/\---+----------------------------------------/~~~~~~ * * \ \ * * \ \ * * \ \ * * \ \_ * * \ \ NOTE: This isnt a hyperdermic needel !!!!!! * * \ \ * * \/\_\ * * ITS SO GOOD I FRAMED IT !!!!* ****************************************************************************** aibophobia (ay' bo fo beeya): n. The fear of palindromes. kibophobia (ki' bo fo beeya): n. The fear of Kibo. kibophobik (ki' bo fo bik): n. The fear of Kibo's palindromes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'M STILL 100% FLAMEPROOF! / I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP! / HI MARK! ____________________________/____________________________________/___________ Arsenio Hall is the black Johnny Carson but Byron Allen is the black Pat Sajak! But at least Byron Allen is funnier than Skip Stephenson or John Barbour! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM's "AIX" operating system is better than "real" "UNIX" systems because "AIX" has "man" pages that show "pictures" of each "command"! Here's an "example", isn't this "cute"? RM, DELETE(1,C) AIX Commands Reference RM, DELETE(1,C) PURPOSE Removes files or directories. SYNTAX one of +--------+ +------------+ | rm |---| +----+ |--- file ---| | delete | +---| -f |---+ ^ | +--------+ ^ | -i | | +--------+ | | -r | | | | -- | | | | -s | | | +----+ | +--------+ ____________________________________________________ \o clip and save _______ /O <--those are scissors .------------ .--' o . . `-- .-' . O . . ` .-'@ @@@@@@@ . @@@@@ /@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@ .<--- Crater Parry -- I paid $15 for it! ./ o @@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@ /@@ o @@@@@@@@@@@. @@@@@@@ O /@@@@ . @@@@@@@o @@@@@@@@@@ @ |@@@@@ . @@@@@@@@@@@@@ o @@ /@@@@@ O `.-./ . @@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Full Moon + | @@@@ --`-' o @@@@@@@@ @@@@ 2 17:08:58 |@ @@@ ` o . @@ . @@@@@@ Last Quarter - | @@ @ .-. @@@ @@@@@@ 4 16:02:05 \ . @ @@@ `-' . @@@@ @@@@ | @@ @@@@@ . @@ . \ @@@@ @\@@ / . O . o \ o @@ \ \ / . . `\ . .\.-.___ . . .- \ `-' `- `-. o / | o O . `-. / . . . `--. . .-- `------------ If this posting offends you, then you're a WEENERBRAIN!!! @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@@@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Dedicated to Gene Roddenberry, who died last year... @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ -------\__/ | * / |_____-/ BOSTON, MASSACHUSSETTS <-- SITE OF WORLD.COM PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX ONLY A DOLLAR A MINUTE PLUS CONNECT TIME! AND NO I DON'T KNOW MICHAEL DUKAKIS PERSONALLY! ^L 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890XXXXX DON'T GO INTO THE X'S !!!!! ^L ^L ^L ^D ^D ^D . exit stop bye ^C ^Z !sh !ed /exit quit q /quit ~x help help stop !help logout $signoff write sysop "how do i stop this ???" psot post ^P^O^S^T this line intentionally left blank so that the following line will be #350. THIS IS THE THREE HUNDRED FIFTIETH LINE OF MY .SIGNATURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the edn P.S.: ---------- From mathew@mantis.co.uk Tue Jul 2 11:28:05 1991 To: James 'Kibo' Parry Subject: Re: Call for creation of alt.evolutionary.acceleration From: Industrial Poet Comments: Civilization is a momentary failure of entropy Date: Tue, 02 Jul 91 10:55:39 BST Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK. Might I suggest adding the following quote to your .signature: "It seems like it's time to retire the length-of-sig-wasted-bandwidth flame. The point really is, News is BIG and .signatures, even long ones, are small." - Mark-Jason Dominus mathew ---------- -- -- From stev0@sti.com Sat May 9 01:19:46 1992 Date: Fri, 8 May 92 22:19:07 PDT From: stev0@sti.com (Steve Berlin) To: kibo@world.std.com Subject: Re: your .sig Hi there. Thanks for your nifty .sig. I already got a copy from alt.fan.warlord, but with such a wonderful work of art, you can never have too many copies, can you? Well, of course you can! I mean, "Mona Lisa" is a damn good painting, but am I going to hang it in every room in my apartment? No! But I digress. Anyway, to make your .sig a bit more "user-friendly", here is an index for it. The numbers, of course, refer to line numbers. I'll let someone ELSE do a table of contents. Suggestions for index: 1) Append it to the end of the .sig 2) Include it as a seperate file 3) Just delete the damn thing, log off, and watch Ren and Stimpy or (my favorite): append it to the end of your sig, THEN log off and watch Ren and Stimpy. - Stev0 13, Rot - 610-623 Address - 55-58 Autograph, Burroughs, William S. - 527-533 Child, Dying - 155-174 Copyright - 86-88 Credits - 19,20 Dedication - 781-783 Disclaimers - 22-25, 89-98, 142, 153, 216, 276, 474, 677-686, 772, 790 Drawings, ASCII: Bozo - 644-670 Brain - 28-37 Bunny, Energizer, Being Nuked - 540-556 Check, Amiga - 223-243 Dog - 40-48 Enterprise - 501-506, 692-695 Simpson, Bart, Minimalist - 245-253 Sword - 692-709 Terminator - 478-489 unknown (command flow?) 736-744 unknown (computer?) 293-300 End, The - 775-780, 831 Favorites: Author - 77-81 Font - 144-146 Heavy Metal Band - 245-253 Movie - 137-138 Movie - 478-489 Painters - 641-643 Quotes - 388-440 Quotes, Star Trek - 507-511 SF Short Story - 207-208 Skeleton Joke - 210 Feh, Fee Fi Fo - 638 Font, BUA - 257-273 Font, Biggest UA - 559-609 GIF, R-Rated - 626-635 History - 2-16 Line 350 - 828 Manuals, MTS - 535-537 Map, Australia - 308-320 Map, Massachusetts - 785-788 Map, Moon 442-473, 748-771 Network, Sean Coates' - 350-362 Peeks, Twin - 176-205 Phobias - 712-716 Posts Made, Number of - 364-386 Quitting Attempts - 794-825 Quotes, Random - 57-75, 83, 84, 99-135, 140-152, 212-214, 321-348, 490-497, 514-525, 723-734 Scissors - 745-746 Score, Tetris - 220 Smilies - 303-305 Space, Blank - 280-291 Virus, .Sig, German - 672-674 ==== Alt.alien.visitors elected me OFFICIAL Spokesman For The Planet Earth! --------- In article <13bvonINN6il@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> carolo@cse.ucsc.edu signed: >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >Carol Osterbrock * Life is too short for 4 line .sigs >carolo@cse.ucsc.edu * -- well, if Kibo didn't say it, he should have >============================================================================== ---------- UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. RMS told me to plug the League For Programmed Freedom in my .signature so I did. Join the LPF! RMS is cool. SEE BATMAN 2 !!!! -- I HAVE A BLACK BELT ! -- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Face on Mars Message-ID: <15463.2b54c8ec@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 14 Jan 93 01:59:08 EST Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 8 Dear John: There are three points of light at the entrance. If you look closely you can see your reflection on the doorknob. Please leave a message under the door. There are reports that Satan is in there. I'd be careful, other haven't been. _Satar_ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13534 alt.alien.visitors:12586 sci.skeptic:36964 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Present Lives. Message-ID: <73561@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 02:15:33 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73326@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan13.042554.7607@bilver.uucp> Lines: 4 Dear Friends: I used to phone Sister Thedra each year on her birthday and wish her well. Last year she was too sick to come to the phone. Thank you for being so kind to tell me that she had pasted away. John Winton. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!marmac2.in2p3.fr!user From: Meessen@marvax.IN2P3.fr (Meessen Christophe) Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@dxcern.cern.ch (USENET News System) Organization: Centre de Physique des Particules de Marseille References: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:21:45 GMT Lines: 62 In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) wrote: > > 1) Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, I have frequently come > accross cattle mutilations. This is when cattle have parts of their bodies cut > out very precisely and all their blood drained out of them. When scientists > examined these mutilated bodies, not a single trace of blood was found either in > the body or on the ground around the body. What I want to know is it possible to > recreate this effect on earth? > I suppose you mean man made or not involving extraterrestrial intervention. The "not a single trace of blood was found either in the body or on the ground around the body" is not precise enough. If we take it as it's written, it would mean cleaning the body. I see two possible ways. Suck the blood out of the body, or wash the circulatory system with another product. As a biologist, I had to study some organs on rats. In summary, I hade to take these organs out of the rat, put them in paraphine for optical microscopy or resine for electronic microscopy. I then the produced bloc in very thin slices, so we could study them on microscope. Normaly, as soon as you kill the animal, cells begins to destroy them selves. And thus what you see in the microscope is no more what was there when the cell were alive. What is done to avoid this phenomenon is to drown the tissue in a fixative substance that will avoid modification or destruction of the cells. On of these fixative is base on ac. formique. (as far as I remeber) The quicker the tissue is washed with this fixative, the better the quality of the information. To do this, we use the following prcess: the living rat is put asleep with ether or something alike. We put a catheter in the out going hart artery that leads the blood everywhere in the body. Through this catheter we fill in the liquid fixative agent. We also put a catheter in the hart outgoing vein that leads blood to the lungs to pump out the blood. So we exchange the blood with another liquid, the fixative agent. It works well. I suppose, the same sort of mechanism or most probably or much more sofisticated technique may be used in mutilation. The circulatory system is the best way to bring a substance in all part of the body, as quick as possible and to each cells. But the described method leaves traces of blood. Some red cells are still visible under microscope on the slice. The object of the method is not to remove the blood, but to use the blood path to fill the body with a fixative agent. I don't say it is the case with catle mutilation, but we use a technique that have apparently the same effects. This process requires just a few minutes, and the body is totaly hard after it. An interresting thing to examine in these mutilated body, is if there are traces of a foreign substances. But I know, it's hard to analyse. Anyone more info ? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!status!jonc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie Message-ID: From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 20:52:37 GMT References: <1993Jan12.235404.5355@marlin.jcu.edu.au> Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand. Lines: 16 Anne Douglass writes: > Oops! Seems to have been posted twice! > Told me it didn't work the first time. > Never mind, Mac - I forgive you. Heck Anne you are an Aussie so we forgive you (grin). Jon Clarke Z*NET Pacific -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= jonc@status.gen.nz GEnie: J.Clarke6 Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD Phone: (+649) 358-5589 IFNA : 3/772:105 GEM : NZM CABLES =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!battin From: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (L GENE BATTIN) Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu Reply-To: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu Organization: VENUS.IUCF.INDIANA.EDU References: <1993Jan12.110654.20616@crc.ac.uk> Distribution: world Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 11:50:00 GMT Lines: 87 In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes... >Steve Gamble x3293 (sgamble@crc.ac.uk) wrote: >> In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >> > I've been reading this newsgroup for a while now and would like to introduce >> > some form of debate for readers to pick up on (JW excluded). >> > >> > >> > 3) Alien races. There are alien races, but how people on earth got their names >> > is a mystery to me. "Greys" are another matter since some respected UFOlogists >> > claim to have seen them (Tim Good, Bob Oeschler to name but two). > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> This sounds interesting. I have not heard the claim that Tim Good has seen >> 'Greys' himself before. Can you provide a reference? > >> Thanks, > >> Steve > >In a radio interview with Nicky Cambell he said that he had heard that there >are aliens in New York that are very telepathic, so he decided to test this >theory. What he did was sit down in the foyer of a New York hotel and started >repeating in his mind something along the lines of "if any extraterrestial >beings can pick up this message, please can to this hotel". After about half an >hour, a gentleman with very grey skin sat down next to him in the foyer, so Tim >said in his mind "if you are an extraterrestial being, rub the side of your nose >with you right index finger". Just as soon as he had thought this, the man did >exactly that, and did so for quite some time. Tim didn't know what else to do so >he left it at that. The description of the man he gave was greyish skin and eyes >that had larger pupils than usual, but dressed in a smart suit. Fah! I used to stare at cumulus clouds and make them DISOLVE INTO THIN AIR, purely by the power of my own thought! Didn't even need an Orgone projector! Next to that, making grey-skinned stangers show up and rub their noses is MERE CHILD'S PLAY!! > > In Tim's book "Alien Liaisons" he recounted that while getting help from >Bob Oeschler (not sure if spelling is correct, pronounced "esh-ler"), Bob told >him a story that happened soon after Bob Lazar was caught taking him and some >other people to Area 51 to watch some UFO flight tests. Bob was at a bar with >his girlfriend, his mind was suddenly filled with panic and hitherto forgotten >memories. He looked around the bar and saw this grey gentleman staring at him. >Bob pointed at him and yelled to his girlfriend "that's him! That's him!" and >the gentleman went out of the bar. Well, THAT'S certainly incriminating behavior. When people holler at me in bars, _I_ always take a bow. Don't ya just hate it that the grey's are so stuuuupid that they make such silly responses when pin-pointed! > Bob's girlfriend then went after the >gentleman and when she caught up with him, he looked at her and she suddenly >wanted to leave him alone. Now that couldn't have been an attack of common sense, could it? Nah! > > Both of the gentleman had grey skin and eyes with larger than usual >pupils and telepathic powers. Excuse me, but where in the above is there any evidence of telepathic power? I mean, evidence that could possibly be distinguished from self-fulfilling prophecies and wishful thinking? > Wether these are "Greys" or some other race of >alien I don't know. Hope that helps. > >The Cursor. Just the other day, I stared at the phone and thought to myself, "if MJ-12 is _really_ trying to take over the world by secret use of alien technologies, then I want the phone to ring". Sure enough, within the next 3 hours, the phone had rung no less than on 4 separate occasions! One was even a "wrong number"! (hah!, I could sense that the person on the other end was REALLY an evil man-in-black just checking their phone taps. I accused him of this, and he PROVED that I was right by HANGING UP!) Incontrovertible proof! Gene ObHumorImpaired: Apply :-) liberally above. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 13:23:59 GMT References: <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 20 >>BUT!!! I fully defend John's First Amendment Right to speak his >>piece as he pleases. The First Amendment is not an issue here. There is nothing about the First Amendment that that requires that anyone provide a *forum* for someone's opinions. Neither Usenet nor anyone else is obligated to allow John to post his views. He's free to publish his own newspaper and the government cannot censor him. he's free to get up on his soapbox in the city park, (etc). That's the extent of it. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!aun.uninett.no!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!hsr.no!elektro9.hsr.no!trondk_l From: trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no (Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circles Filming Message-ID: Sender: news@hsr.no Organization: Rogaland University Centre References: <1993Jan12.180810.6815@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 12:24:12 GMT Lines: 35 In article <1993Jan12.180810.6815@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes: >>There are people claiming they have made the circles, but >>when they are asked to redraw some of them they can't do it... >> >Er..yes they can. I seen an article that sez they can. Think it was >"Newsweek" or "Scientific American". Can't remember which. Probably >"Newsweek". I don't think "Scientific American" would waste paper on >crop circles. But they demonstrated their technique, which was to use >the huge board they were dragging around in circles to eliminate their >tracks inside the circle, and just being really careful when they walked >through the rest of the field. It was pretty neat. > Jason Thank you for your reply Jason... I have also seen people demonstrating the technique at television, but never seen they have fullfilled anything convincing me that people have made those "masterpieces". Many questions araise... for instance: - Why haven't anybody (victims) seen people making the circles? Normally they are very big, and making them would take alot if time. - How could so many people around the world get the same idea making the same sort of crop circles... in the same way? My theory is that after the crop circles are created (by ?), people are trying to find ways to reproduce them to get attention. The procedures followed (if any) under the "reproductions" seems poor and does not seem to follow ordinary scientific methods. Trond K. Lindanger - Your friend in NORWAY Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Mr Sceptic Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 13:39:56 GMT References: <1993Jan12.185150@cogs.sussex.ac.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 39 In article <1993Jan12.185150@cogs.sussex.ac.uk> richs@cogs.sussex.ac.uk (Richard Salter) writes: > I'm not a firm believer in UFOs, but I'm not gonna >insult anybody here who does.... That's OK, I will. People have been talking on various Usenet newsgroups and other forums for years about UFO's, alien abductions, government cover-ups of alien encounters, flying saucer crashes, etc, for YEARS and YEARS. George Adamski wrote about all this stuff in 1951. Invariably there are FOAFs who've seen actual physical evidence, people who allegedly have stuff implanted in their bodies, alien bodies on ice somewhere in an Air-Force vault, underground cities beneath a mountain in California, and so forth. And inevitably there are dire predictions of alien invasions, advanced technology that the US got from aliens or claims that the real truth behind all this is about to be uncovered or revealed in an undeniable form Any Day Now. And guess what? Nothing ever materializes. No evidence, no invasions, no implanted artifacts, nothing! Just excuses and more talk. Last fall some religious group started plastering this area with posters telling us that the Second Coming would occur in October. Guess what? The posters are all still up but nothing happened. Some people will believe anything. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 13:58:48 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 43 >In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. >Humphries) wrote: >> >> 1) Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, I have frequently come >> accross cattle mutilations. How should we parse this? Is the above a posting from someone who failed his grammer classes in school, or that of a non-native English speaker, or is it meant to be taken literally? If the latter, is there a connection between the first clause and the second one, or does it represent one of the fundamental problems of this whole field? I suggest the latter, but let's take them in turn. Perhaps the poster meant that he has come across *references* to cattle mutilations *in his reading*, but that's not what he said. Another possibility is that he has literally come across cattle mutilations while out walking in the pasture. Stumbled over the severed head of a cow, perhaps, or lost his footing on a slippery bit of intestine. If so, is he suggesting that that this is a result of reading books on UFO's? He's unclear about this. But from what I've seen on this newsgroup, there is a subtle sense in which he may believe that ** Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, he has frequently come across cattle mutilations **. That is, for him, **it is as if** he has really come across cattle mutilations. In other words, for many on this newsgroup, when they read some strange theory or idea or testimony in a book or magazine article it becomes real for them. They are willing to believe it merely because they have seen it in printed form on a page. They demand no greater proof, no physical evidence. ---peter Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5747 alt.alien.visitors:12594 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!mv!gozer!klm From: klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: <1993Jan14.135712.11539@gozer.mv.com> Date: 14 Jan 93 13:57:12 GMT References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <73500@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan13.161450.3039@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Organization: GhostBuster Central - Southern NH Usenet Access, Nashua, NH Lines: 12 clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu (The_Doge) writes: > But what *I* want to know is: howcum the Ferengi developed space > travel and transporters and all that neat stuff without *ever* learning > anything about basic dentistry? The Ferengi probably didn't develop space travel and most of the other advanced technologies that they possess. They probably stole them from some other race that visited them, just as we will do (or may already have done) when given the opportunity. The Ferengi are, basically, lazy bastards who would find it easier to steal than to conduct serious scientific research. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!seq!brownt From: brownt@seq.uncwil.edu (brown todd francis) Subject: Please repost: FREE ENERGY Message-ID: <1993Jan14.152254.28759@seq.uncwil.edu> Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 15:22:54 GMT Lines: 10 To whoever posted that file a few days ago about FREE ENERGY please repost! The file I am talking about is very lengthy with a long source listing at the back. I read it online but before I could get home to catch in on my PC, it was gone! Thanks! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Dimensional Thought-Lab Message-ID: <1993Jan14.164604.22514@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <141847.2B5093FC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <4aZm02um315n01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 16:46:04 GMT Lines: 29 In article <4aZm02um315n01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jjs40@cd.amdahl.com (John Sullivan) writes: >In article <141847.2B5093FC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, >> JS> FTL drives? Time travel? I believe them not impossible. So why not build >> JS> the damned things and see if they work? >> >>Hear, hear! People have been literally trying to do so in their garages and >>barns and basements for some little while. Have any succeeded? Nothing but >>anecdotes to tantalize us. >> >>One nuclear engineer (specialty: magnetic containment) in the NY area >>seems to have made some progress, but unfortunately he died when his house >>flew apart a few years back. > >Now think about this carefully. What would you *expect* to happen if you >turned on an FTL drive in your basement? Not knowing anything about FTL drives, it is hard to expect anything. What would you expect? And why? >-- >John Sullivan, Engineer/Computer Development. Email: jjs40@cd.amdahl.com >Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA. Phone: (408)746-4688 Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!dbased.nuo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: Dorn's Undergroud Cavern. Message-ID: <1993Jan14.153621.24287@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73242@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan12.234038.3129@netcom.com> <1993Jan14.000808.20130@csar.encore.com> Date: 14 JAN 93 10:26:39 Lines: 24 In article <1993Jan14.000808.20130@csar.encore.com>, chattend@csar.encore.com (Charlie Hattendorf) writes... >jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >>Bear in mind that China Lake and Nellis are full of underground bases that >>local construction workers are reporting sightings of aliens working with >>scientists at the lower levels. > >Jeff, being as I work at China Lake I would like more info on the 2020 >Group, Michael Lindemann et al.... I suppose I could contact KPFA >for transcripts, do you know of any other source? Needless to say, I >have not encountered the underground bases/alien types! >P.S. Of course my partner, who I share an office with, has been acting >a little strange lately! This is one thing I'd like to see more of! Nothing like a first hand report to completely blow away these silly conspiracies. However, expect to see continued posts citing China Lake as an underground base, regardless. Why let a little thing like facts get in the way of a good conspiracy? It's sad that so much crap, for lack of a better word, clogs up the works in UFO circles. Did everyone read the NYC abduction posts? Are even Mufon and Budd Hopkins not immune from the crapola? -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!amdcad!amdint.amd.com!mozart!billp From: billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) Subject: beliefs Message-ID: Sender: usenet@amd.com Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 16:10:56 GMT Lines: 42 Some facts are evident : 1) people have been seeing unexplained flying objects for centuries; 2) people have been seeing wierd beings for centuries 3) people have complained of being abducted by non-humans for centuries 4) modern sightings include radar contacts 5) the government doesn't want to give out all it's information publicly 6) there are many other life-bearing planets in our galaxy (Drake equation) These are the facts ma'am. Are any conclusions inevitable? No. It seems quite possible that we are being visited/studied. Many other explanations are possible too; we cannot think of the unknown. As for belief, it has no bearing on reality. People will believe what they want to believe. A person can be fooled or led only when they want something. I immediately mistrust anyone who wants to charge money, anyone who is promoting an agenda, and anyone who is maintaining a public image. What does one do when faced with a question that one does not know the answer for? If one really wants to know the truth, speculation stops, and the mind is quiet. This is called an open mind. When I turn my open mind to the evidence we have, it seems most likely that we are being visited/studied. However, I cannot accept this as THE answer. As for government coverup, the government is in the BUSINESS of coverups! Watergate, Irangate, Rubbergate, Manhattangate (I mean project), Iraqgate. As Oliver North said, "I had a shredder in my office. It was my JOB to shred!" Government agents, coverups, and secret deals are common in the gubment; this doesn't prove anything. Please keep posting anything that has a basis in reality or any thoughts that are sincerely expressed to further the body of knowledge. I think it is valuable to propagate new ideas and observations. Of course, I don't welcome posts about Bigfoot Astral Spaceman Trains from the WWF (I mean WWN). BTW, anybody have flying dreams? Meet any white luminous beings? Been given training in flying by the beings in a class setting? Just curious ... -- Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!uknet!nessie!pca27.li.umist.ac.uk!cluster From: cluster@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (General Access) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UPCOMING on the ParaNet UFO CONTINUUM Message-ID: Date: 14 Jan 93 18:29:21 GMT References: <141812.2B4E3E8D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Usenet News System) Organization: Manchester Computing Centre Lines: 30 In article <141812.2B4E3E8D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: > * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo" > * Originally by Michael Corbin > * Originally to All > * Originally dated 8 Jan 1993, 18:45 >Here is the schedule for the next two weeks on ParaNet's UFO radio show: >Sunday, January 10 9:00 PM Mountain/11:00 Eastern > Guest: Jim Speiser > Founder of ParaNet and UFO researcher in Arizona. >Sunday, January 17 9:00 PM Mountain/11:00 Eastern > Guest: David Jacobs > Author of Secret Life concerning the abduction phenomenon. >The show is heard over Galaxy 6, Channel 17, 7.5 MHz Audio. >Be sure to tune in with your satellite receiver and call in over our toll-free lines to speak to the guests. >-- >Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 >UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name >INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Where *is* Galaxy 6 and can i receive it from Europe??? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!lynx!cschmidt From: cschmidt@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Christopher Schmidt) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan14.191800.8564@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> Date: 14 Jan 93 19:18:00 GMT Reply-To: cschmidt@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Christopher Schmidt) Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA Lines: 1418 ROSWELL TESTIMONY 1 INTRODUCTION 1.1 Document Description 1.2 Sequence of Events 2 THE CIVILIANS 2.1 Loretta Proctor 2.2 Marian Strickland 2.3 Bessie Brazel Schreiber 2.4 William Brazel Jr 2.5 Glenn Dennis 3 THE COPS 3.1 Barbara Dugger 4 THE PRESS 4.1 Frank Joyce 4.2 Lydia Sleppy 4.3 Walt Whitmore Jr 5 THE MILITARY 5.1 Jesse Marcel 5.2 Jesse Marcel Jr 5.3 Walter Haut 5.4 Bill Rickett 5.5 F.B. 5.6 Robert Porter 5.7 Robert Shirkey 5.8 Robert Slusher 5.9 Robert Smith 5.10 Melvin Brown's Daughter 5.11 Pappy Henderson 5.12 Pappy Henderson's Wife 5.13 Pappy Henderson's Daughter 5.14 Pappy Henderson's Relatives 5.15 Pappy Henderson's Friend #1 5.16 Pappy Henderson's Friend #2 6 PROSAIC EXPLANATIONS 6.1 Weather Balloon 6.2 Secret Rocket or Airplane 1 INTRODUCTION 1.1 Document Description A flying saucer crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. This document contains testimony from people who were closely associated with this incident. Most of the testimony in this document is from the 1992 book "Crash at Corona" by Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner, published in the United States by Paragon House. That book contains lots of other interesting material, including material regarding another crash site in New Mexico. That book is the source of all testimony in this document except where noted. 1.2 Sequence of Events On July 2, 1947, during the evening, a flying saucer crashed on the Foster Ranch near Corona, New Mexico. The crash occurred during a severe thunderstorm. (The military base nearest the crash site is in Roswell, New Mexico; hence, Roswell is more closely associated with this event than Corona, even though Corona is closer to the crash site.) On July 3, 1947, William "Mac" Brazel (rhymes with "frazzle") and his 7-year-old neighbor Dee Proctor found the remains of the crashed flying saucer. Brazel was foreman of the Foster Ranch. The pieces were spread out over a large area, perhaps more than half a mile long. When Brazel drove Dee back home, he showed a piece of the wreckage to Dee's parents, Floyd and Loretta Proctor. They all agreed the piece was unlike anything they had ever seen. On July 6, 1947, Brazel showed pieces of the wreckage to Chaves County Sheriff George Wilcox. Wilcox called Roswell Army Air Field (AAF) and talked to Major Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer. Marcel drove to the sheriff's office and inspected the wreckage. Marcel reported to his commanding officer, Colonel William "Butch" Blanchard. Blanchard ordered Marcel to get someone from the Counter Intelligence Corps, and to proceed to the ranch with Brazel, and to collect as much of the wreckage as they could load into their two vehicles. Soon after this, military police arrived at the sheriff's office, collected the wreckage Brazel had left there, and delivered the wreckage to Blanchard's office. The wreckage was then flown to Eighth Air Force headquarters in Fort Worth, and from there to Washington. Meanwhile, Marcel and Sheridan Cavitt of the Counter Intelligence Corps drove to the ranch with Mac Brazel. They arrived late in the evening. They spent the night in sleeping bags in a small out-building on the ranch, and in the morning proceeded to the crash site. On July 7, 1947, Marcel and Cavitt collected wreckage from the crash site. After filling Cavitt's vehicle with wreckage, Marcel told Cavitt to go on ahead, that Marcel would collect more wreckage, and they would meet later back at Roswell AAF. Marcel filled his vehicle with wreckage. On the way back to the air field, Marcel stopped at home to show his wife and son the strange material he had found. On July 7, 1947, around 4:00 pm, Lydia Sleppy at Roswell radio station KSWS began transmitting a story on the teletype machine regarding a crashed flying saucer out on the Foster Ranch. Transmission was interrupted, seemingly by the FBI. On July 8, 1947, in the morning, Marcel and Cavitt arrived back at Roswell AAF with two carloads of wreckage. Marcel accompanied this wreckage, or most it, on a flight to Fort Worth AAF. On July 8, 1947, around noon, Colonel Blanchard at Roswell AAF ordered Second Lieutenant Walter Haut to issue a press release telling the country that the Army had found the remains of a crashed a flying saucer. Haut was the public information officer for the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell AAF. Haut delivered the press release to Frank Joyce at radio station KGFL. Joyce waited long enough for Haut to return to the base, then called Haut there to confirm the story. Joyce then sent the story on the Western Union wire to the United Press bureau. On July 8, 1947, in the afternoon, General Clemence McMullen in Washington spoke by telephone with Colonel (later Brigadier General) Thomas DuBose in Fort Worth, chief of staff to Eighth Air Force Commander General Roger Ramey. McMullen ordered DuBose to tell Ramey to quash the flying saucer story by creating a cover story, and to send some of the crash material immediately to Washington. On July 8, 1947, in the afternoon, General Roger Ramey held a press conference at Eighth Air Force headquarters in Fort Worth in which he announced that what had crashed at Corona was a weather balloon, not a flying saucer. To make this story convincing, he showed the press the remains of a damaged weather balloon that he claimed was the actual wreckage from the crash site. (Apparently, the obliging press did not ask why the Army hurriedly transported weather balloon wreckage to Fort Worth, Texas, site of the press conference, from the crash site in a remote area of New Mexico.) The only newspapers that carried the initial flying saucer version of the story were evening papers from the Midwest to the West, including the Chicago Daily News, the Los Angeles Herald Express, the San Francisco Examiner, and the Roswell Daily Record. The New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Chicago Tribune were morning papers and so carried only the cover-up story the next morning. At some point, a large group of soldiers were sent to the debris field on the Foster Ranch, including a lot of MPs whose job was to limit access to the field. A wide search was launched well beyond the limits of the debris field. Within a day or two, a few miles from the debris field, the main body of the flying saucer was found, and a mile or two from that several bodies of small humanoids were found. The military took Mac Brazel into custody for about a week, during which time he was seen on the streets of Roswell with a military escort. His behavior aroused the curiosity of friends when he passed them without any sign of recognition. Following this period of detention, Brazel repudiated his initial story. 2 THE CIVILIANS 2.1 Loretta Proctor [NB: In the sections of this document that contain testimony, all text not enclosed in brackets, like those that enclose this sentence, is verbatim testimony.] [Loretta Proctor, Mac Brazel's nearest neighbor, was one of the first to see pieces of the wreckage Brazel had found. She was interviewed in July 1990.] [Mac] had this piece of material that he had picked up. He wanted to show it to us and wanted us to go down and see the rest of the debris or whatever, [but] we didn't on account of the transportation and everything wasn't too good. He didn't get anybody to come out who was interested in it. The piece he brought looked like a kind of tan, lightbrown plastic. It was very lightweight, like balsa wood. It wasn't a large piece, maybe about four inches long, maybe just a little larger than a pencil. We cut on it with a knife and would hold a match on it, and it wouldn't burn. We knew it wasn't wood. It was smooth like plastic, it didn't have a real sharp corners, kind of like a dowel stick. Kind of dark tan. It didn't have any grain, just smooth. I hadn't seen anything like it. [The following statement by Loretta Proctor suggests the possibility that Mac Brazel had been bribed to keep quiet.] I think that within that year, he had moved off the ranch and moved to Alamagordo or to Tularosa and he put in a locker there. That was before people had home freezers, and it was a large refrigerated building. You would buy beef and cut it up and put it in those lockers and you had a key to it and you could get your beef out when you wanted it. I think it would have been pretty expensive, and we kind of wondered how he could put it in with rancher's wages. [Here is what Loretta Proctor said on the American television program "Unsolved Mysteries".] Floyd [Loretta's husband] and a neighbor was in Roswell and saw Mac surrounded by some of the Air Force people. And they walked right by them and Mac wouldn't speak to them. They thought it was kind of funny, I guess, really wondered what he'd got into. And Mac, he wouldn't talk about it after he come back home. But he did say if he ever found something else he wouldn't report it. 2.2 Marian Strickland [Marian Strickland was a neighbor of Mac Brazel. She was interviewed in 1990.] [Mac] made it plain he was not supposed to tell that there was any excitement about the material he found on the ranch. He was a man who had integrity. He definitely felt insulted and mis-used, and disrespected. He was worse than annoyed. He was definitely under some stress, and felt that he had been kicked around. He was threatened that if he opened his mouth, he might get thrown in the back side of the jail. He gave that impression, definitely. 2.3 Bessie Brazel Schreiber [Bessie Brazel Schreiber is Mac Brazel's daughter. Here is her description of wreckage from the crash.] [The material resembled] a sort of aluminum-like foil. Some of [these] pieces had a sort of tape stuck to them. Even though the stuff looked like tape, it could not be peeled off or removed at all. Some of these pieces had something like numbers and lettering on them, but there were no words we were able to make out. The figures were written out like you would write numbers in columns, but they didn't look like the numbers we use at all. [There was also] a piece of something made out of the same metal-like foil that looked like a pipe sleeve. About four inches across and equally long, with a flange on one end. [Also] what appeared to be pieces of heavily waxed paper. 2.4 William Brazel Jr [William Brazel Jr is Mac Brazel's son. Here is his description of wreckage from the crash.] [One of the pieces looked like] something on the order of tinfoil, except that [it] wouldn't tear.... You could wrinkle it and lay it back down and it immediately resumed its original shape... quite pliable, but you couldn't crease or bend it like ordinary metal. Almost like a plastic, but definitely metallic. Dad once said that the Army had once told him it was not anything made by us. [There was also] some threadlike material. It looked like silk, but was not silk, a very strong material [without] strands or fibers like silk would have. This was more like a wire, all one piece or substance. [There were also] some wooden-like particles like balsa wood in weight, but a bit darker in color and much harder.... It was pliable but wouldn't break. Weighed nothing, but you couldn't scratch it with your fingernail. All I had was a few small bits. [There was no writing or markings on the pieces I had] but Dad did say one time that there were what he called "figures" on some of the pieces he found. He often referred to the petroglyphs the ancient Indians drew on the rocks around here as "figures", too, and I think that's what he meant to compare them with. [Here are other remarks by William Brazel Jr.] My dad found this thing and he told me a little bit about it, not much, because the Air Force asked him to take an oath that he wouldn't tell anybody in detail about it. He went to his grave and he never told anybody. He was an oldtime Western cowboy, and they didn't do a lot of talking. My brother and I had just went through World War II (him in the Army and me in the Navy) and needless to say, my dad was proud. Like he told me, "When you guys went in the service, you took an oath, and I took an oath not to tell." The only thing he said was, "Well, there's a big bunch of stuff, and there's some tinfoil, some wood, and on some of that wood there was Japanese or Chinese figures." [At the time of the crash, William Brazel Jr had been living and working in Albuquerque, but returned when his father was taken into custody and thus there was no one to run the ranch.] I rode out there [the field where the wreckage was found] on the average of once a week, and I was riding through that area, I was looking. That's why I found those little pieces. Not over a dozen pieces. I'd say maybe eight different pieces. But there was only three [different] items involved: something on the order of balsa wood, something on the order of heavy-gauge monofilament fishing line, and a little piece of -- it wasn't tinfoil, it wasn't lead foil -- a piece about the size of my finger. Some of it was like balsa wood: real light and kind of neutral color, more of a tan. To the best of my memory, there wasn't any grain in it. Couldn't break it, it'd flex a little. I couldn't whittle it with my pocket knife. The "string", I couldn't break it. The only reason I noticed the tinfoil (I'm gonna call it tinfoil), I picked this stuff up and put it in my chaps pocket. Might be two or three days or a week before I took it out and put it in a cigar box. I happened to notice when I put that piece of foil in that box, and the damn thing just started unfolding and just flattened out. Then I got to playing with it. I'd fold it, crease it, lay it down and it'd unfold. It's kinda wierd. I couldn't tear it. The color was in between tinfoil and lead foil, about the [thickness] of lead foil. I was in Corona, in the bar, the pool hall. Sort of the meeting place, domino parlor.... That's where everybody got together. Everybody was asking, they'd seen the papers (this was about a month after the crash) and I said, "Oh, I picked up a few little bits and pieces and fragments." So, what are they? "I dunno." Then lo and behold, here comes the military out to the ranch, a day or two later. I'm almost positive that the officer in charge, his name was Armstrong, a real nice guy. He had a [black] sergeant with him that was real nice. I think there was two other enlisted men. They said, "We understand your father found this weather balloon." I said, "Well yeah." "And we understand you found some bits and pieces." I said, "Yeah, I've got a cigar box that's got a few of them in there, down at the saddle shed." And this (I think he was a captain), and he said, "Well, we would like to take it with us." I said, "Well..." And he smiled and he said, "Your father turned the rest of it over to us, and you know he's under an oath not to tell. Well," he said, "we came after those bits and pieces." And I kind of smiled and said, "OK, you can have the stuff, I have no use for it at all." He said, "Well, have you examined it?" And I said, "Well, enough to know that I don't know what the hell it is." And he said, "We would rather you didn't talk very much about it." 2.5 Glenn Dennis [Glenn Dennis was a mortician in Roswell in 1947. His employer provided mortuary services for Roswell Army Air Field. Dennis drove a combination hearse and ambulance for both civilian and military assignments. On July 9 or 10, 1947, Dennis got several phone calls from the Roswell AAF mortuary officer, who was more of an administrator than a mortuary technician. The officer wanted to know about hermetically sealed caskets ("What was the smallest one they could get?"), and about chemical solutions. Dennis was interviewed in August 1989 by Stanton Friedman.] This is what was so interesting. See, this is why I feel like there was really something involved in this, because they didn't want to do anything that was going to make an imbalance. They kept saying, "OK, what's this going to do to the blood system, what's this going to do to the tissue?" Then when they informed me that these bodies [had] laid out in the middle of July, in the middle of the prairie, I mean that body's going to be as dark as your [blue] blazer there, and it's going to be in bad shape. I was the one who suggested dry ice. I'd done that a time or two. I talked to them four or five times in the afternoon. They would keep calling back and asking me different questions involving the body. What they were really after was how to move those bodies. They didn't give me any indication they even had the bodies, or where they were. But they kept talking about these bodies, and I said, "What do the bodies look like?" And they said, "I don't know, but I'll tell you one thing: This happened some time ago." The only thing that was mentioned was that they were exposed to the elements for several days. I understand these bodies weren't in the same location as where they found some of the others. They said the bodies weren't in the vehicle itself; the bodies were separated by two or three miles from it. They talked about three different bodies: two of them mangled, one that was in pretty good shape. [That evening, Dennis took a GI accident victim to the base infirmary, which was in the same building as the hospital and the mortuary. He walked the injured GI inside, then drove around to the back to see a pretty young Army Air Forces nurse he had recently gotten to know.] There were two MPs standing right there, and I got out and started to go in. I wouldn't have gotten as far as I did if I hadn't parked in the emergency area. They probably thought I was coming after somebody. The doors were open to the military ambulances and that's where some wreckage was, and there was an MP on each side. I saw all the wreckage. I don't know what it was, but I knew there was something going on, and that's when I first got an inclination that something was happening. What was so curious about it, was that in two of those ambulances was a deal that looked like [the bottom] half of a canoe. It didn't look like aluminum. You know what stainless steel looks like when you put heat on it? How it'll turn kinda purplish, with kind of a blue hue to it? [Dennis later said that he saw a row of unrecognizable symbols several inches high on the metal devices.] I just glanced in and kept going. When I got inside, I noticed there was quite a bit of activity. When I went back into the lounge, there were "big birds" [high-ranking officers he didn't recognize, though he was familiar with all the local medical people] everywhere. They were really shook up. So I went down the hall where I usually go, and I got down the hall just a little way and an MP met me right there. He wanted to know who the hell I was and where I was from, and what business did I have there? I explained who I was. Evidently he was under the impression that they called me to come out. Anyway, I got past that and I went on in and then this is where I met the nurse. She was involved in this thing, she was on duty. She told me, "How in the hell did you get in here?" I said, "I just walked in." She said, "My God, you are going to get killed." And I said, "They didn't stop me." I was going to the Coke machine to get us a Coke, and this big red-headed colonel said, "What's that son of a bitch doing here?" He hollered at the MPs and that's when it hit the fan. These two MPs grabbed me by the arms and carried me clear outside. They carried me to the ambulance. I didn't walk, they carried me. And they told me to get my ass out of there. [They followed him back to the funeral home.] About two or three hours later, they [called] and told me, "You open your mouth and you'll be so far back in the jug they'll have to shoot pinto beans [into you] with a bean shooter." I just laughed and said, "Go to hell." [Dennis spoke with the nurse again the following day.] She said there were three little bodies. Two of them were just mangled beyond everything, but there was one of them that was really in pretty good condition. And she said, "Let me show you the difference between our anatomy and theirs. Really, what they looked like was ancient Chinese: small, fragile, no hair." She said their noses didn't protrude, the eyes were set pretty deep, and the ears were just little indentations. She said the anatomy of the arms was different, the upper arm was longer than the lower. They didn't have thumbs, they had four different, she called them "tentacles", I think. Didn't have any fingernails. She then described how they had little things like suction cups on their fingertips. I asked her were these men or women? [Were their] sex organs the same as ours? She said, "No, some were missing." The first thing that decomposes on a body would be the brain, next the sex organs, especially in women. But she thought there had probably been something, some animals. Some of these bodies were badly mutilated. She said they got the bodies out of those containers [the ones he had seen in the backs of the ambulances, on the way into the hospital]. See, they weren't at the crash site, they were about a mile or two from the crash site. She said they looked like they had their own little cabins. She said the lower portion, the abdomen and legs, was crushed, but the upper portion wasn't that bad. She told me the head was larger and it was kind of like, the eyes were different. [A few weeks later, Dennis heard from his father.] "What the hell'd you get into? What kind of trouble are you in?" I said, "I'm not in any trouble." And he said, "The hell you're not. The sheriff [an old friend of the elder Dennis] said that the base personnel have been in and they want to know all about your background." 3 THE COPS 3.1 Barbara Dugger [Barbara Dugger is the granddaughter of George and Inez Wilcox. George was the sheriff who Mac Brazel contacted after discovering the crashed flying saucer. Barbara Dugger was interviewed in 1991 by Kevin Randle.] [My grandmother said] "Don't tell anybody. When the incident happened, the military police came to the jailhouse and told George and I that if we ever told anything about the incident, not only would we be killed, but our entire family would be killed." They called my grandfather and someone came and told him about this incident. He went out there to the site. There was a big burned area and he saw debris. It was in the evening. There were four space beings. Their heads were large. They wore suits like silk. One of the little men was alive. If she [Inez] said it happened, it happened. [Regarding the death threat, Barbara said Inez said:] "They meant it, Barbara. They were not kidding." She said the event shocked him. He never wanted to be sheriff again after that. Grandmother ran for sheriff and was defeated. My grandmother was a very loyal citizen of the United States, and she thought it was in the best interest of the country not to talk about it. 4 THE PRESS 4.1 Frank Joyce [Frank Joyce worked at the radio station KGFL. He got a phone call from a man, presumably Mac Brazel, who reported wreckage on his ranch.] He asked me what to do about it. I recommended he go to Roswell Army Air Base [sic]. The next thing I heard was that the PIO, [Lieutenant] Walter Haut, came into the station some time after I got this call. He handed me a news release printed on onionskin stationary and left immediately. I called him back at the base and said, "I suggest that you not release this type of story that says you have a flying saucer or flying disk." He said, "No, it's Ok. I have the OK from the C.O. [Colonel Blanchard]." I sent the release on the Western Union wire to the United Press bureau. After I returned to the station, there was a flash on the wire with the story: "The U.S. Army Air Corps [sic] says it has a flying disk." They typed a paragraph or two, and then other people got on the wire and asked for more information. Then the phone calls started coming on, and I referred them to [the airfield]. Then the wire stopped and just hummed. Then a phone call came in, and the caller identified himself as an officer at the Pentagon, and this man said some very bad things about what would happen to me. He was really pretty nasty. Finally, I got through to him: I said, "You're talking about a release from the U.S. Army Air Corps." Bang, the phone went dead, he was just gone. Then [station owner Walt] Whitmore called me and said, "Frank, what's going on down there?" He was quite upset. He asked, "Where did you get this story?" In the meantime, I got this [USAAF news] release and hid it, to have proof so no one could accuse me of making it up. Whitmore came in to the station and I gave him the release. He took it with him. The next significant thing occurred in the evening. I got a call from [Mac] Brazel. He said we haven't got this story right. I invited him over to the station. He arrived not long after sunset. He was alone, but I had the feeling that we were being watched. He said something about a weather balloon. I said, "Look, this is completely different than what you told me on the phone the other day about the little green men," and that's when he said, "No, they weren't green." I had the feeling he was under tremendous pressure. He said, "Our lives will never be the same again." 4.2 Lydia Sleppy [Lydia Sleppy was a teletype operator at Roswell radio station KSWS. The event she describes below took place around 4:00 pm on July 7, 1947. She was interviewed in October 1990 by Stanton Friedman.] We were Mutual Broadcasting and ABC, and if we had anything newsworthy, we would put it on the [teletype] machine, and I was the one who did the typing. It was in my office. Mr Tucker [Merle Tucker was the station owner] was in Washington DC trying to get an application approved for a station in El Paso, when this call came from John McBoyle [another KSWS staffer]. He told me he had something hot for the network. I said, "Give me a minute and I'll get the assistant manager," because if it was anything like that, I wanted one of them there while I was taking it down. I went back and asked Mr [Karl] Lambertz (he came up from the big Dallas station) if he would come up and watch. John was dictating and [Karl] was standing right at my shoulder. I got into it enough to know that it was a pretty big story, when the bell came on [signaling an interruption]. Typing came across: "This is the FBI, you will cease transmitting." I had my shorthand pad, and I turned around and told [Karl] that I had been cut off, but that I could take it in shorthand and then we could call it in to the network. I took it in shorthand, as John went on to give the story. He had seen them take the thing away. He'd been out there [presumably at the Foster ranch] when they took it away. And at that time, if I remember correctly, John said they were gonna load it up and take it to Texas. But when the planes came in, they were from Wright Field. 4.3 Walt Whitmore Jr [Walt Whitmore Jr was the son of the owner of Roswell radio station KGFL. Here is his description of wreckage from the crash.] [It was] very much like lead foil in appearance but could not be torn or cut at all. Extremely light in weight. Some small beams that appeared to be either wood or woodlike had a sort of writing on it which looked like numbers which had either been added or multiplied [in columns]. 5 THE MILITARY 5.1 Jesse Marcel [Major Jesse Marcel was one of the the first two military people to visit the Corona crash site. The other was Sheridan Cavitt, who to this day has refused to even acknowledge that he was there on the ranch with Marcel. Jesse Marcel died in 1982. He was interviewed in 1979.] When we arrived at the crash site, it was amazing to see the vast amount of area it covered. It was nothing that hit the ground or exploded [on] the ground. It's something that must have exploded above ground, traveling perhaps at a high rate of speed, we don't know. But it scattered over an area of about three quarters of a mile long, I would say, and fairly wide, several hundred feet wide. So we proceeded to pick up all the fragments we could find and load up our Jeep Carry-All. It was quite obvious to me, familiar with air activities, that it was not a weather balloon, nor was it an airplane or a missile. What it was, we didn't know. We just picked up the fragments. It was something I had never seen before, and I was pretty familiar with all air activities. We loaded up the Carry-All but I wasn't satisfied. I told Cavitt, "You drive this vehicle back to the base and I'll go back out there and pick up as much as I can put in the car,", which I did. But we picked up only a very small portion of the material that was there. One thing that impressed me about the debris that we were referring to is the fact that a lot of it looked like parchment. A lot of it had a lot of little members [I-beams] with symbols that we had to call them hieroglyphics because I could not interpret them, they could not be read, they were just symbols, something that meant something and they were not all the same. The members that this was painted on -- by the way, those symbols were pink and purple, lavender was actually what it was. And so these little members could not be broken, could not be burned. I even tried to burn that. It would not burn. The same with the parchment we had. But something that is more astounding is that the piece of metal that we brought back was so thin, just like the tinfoil in a pack of cigarette paper. I didn't pay too much attention to that at first, until one of the GIs came to me and said, "You know the metal that was in there? I tried to bend that stuff and it won't bend. I even tried it with a sledge hammer. You can't make a dent on it." I didn't go back to look at it myself again, because we were busy in the office and I had quite a bit of work to do. I am quite sure that this young fellow would not have lied to me about that, because he was a very truthful, very honest guy, so I accepted his word for that. So, beyond that, I didn't actually see him hit the matter with a sledge hammer, but he said, "It's definite that it cannot be bent and it's so light that it doesn't weigh anything." And that was true of all the material that was brought up. It was so light that it weighed practically nothing. This particular piece of metal was, I would say, about two feet long and perhaps a foot wide. See, that stuff weighs nothing, it's so thin, it isn't any thicker than the tinfoil in a pack of cigarettes. So I tried to bend the stuff, it wouldn't bend. We even tried making a dent in it with a 16-pound sledge hammer, and there was still no dent in it. I didn't have the time to go out there and find out more about it, because I had so much other work to do that I just let it go. It's still a mystery to me as to what the whole thing was. Like I said before, I knew quite a bit about the material used in the air, but it was nothing I had seen before. And as of now, I still don't know what it was. So that's how it stands. [Here is what Jesse Marcel said on the American television program "Unsolved Mysteries".] There were just fragments strewn all over the area, an area about three quarters of a mile long and several hundred feet wide. So we proceeded to pick up the parts. I tried to bend the stuff, it would not bend. I even tried to burn it, it would not burn. That stuff weighs nothing. It's not any thicker than tin foil in a pack of cigarettes. We even tried making a dent in it with a 16-pound sledge hammer, still no dent in it. One thing I was certain of, being familiar with all our activities, that it was not a weather balloon, nor an aircraft, nor a missile. It was something else, which we didn't know what it was. 5.2 Jesse Marcel Jr [Jesse Marcel Jr is Major Jesse Marcel's son. When Major Marcel returned from the Foster Ranch with a carload of wreckage from the crashed flying saucer, he stopped off at home to show his wife and his eleven-year old son what he had found. Jesse Jr is now a medical doctor, an Army reserve helicopter pilot who served in Vietnam, and a qualified aircraft accident investigator.] The crash and remnants of the device that I happened to see have left an imprint on my memory that can never be forgotten. The craft was not conventional in any sense of the word, in that the remains were most likely what was then known as a flying saucer that had apparently been stressed beyond its designed capabilities. I'm basing this on the fact that many of the remnants, including I-beam pieces that were present, had strange hieroglyphic typewriting symbols across the inner surfaces, pink and purple, except that I don't think there were any animal figures present as there are in true Egyptian hieroglyphics. The remainder of the debris was just described as nondescript metallic debris, or just shredded fragments, but there was a fair amount of the intact I-beam members present. I only saw a small portion of the debris that was actually present at the crash site. [Here is what Jesse Marcel Jr said on the American television program "Unsolved Mysteries".] When [Dad] came back to the house he had a bunch of wreckage with him at the time, and he brought the wreckage into the house. Actually wakened my mother and myself out so we could view this, because it was so unusual. This was about two o'clock in the morning as I recall, and he spread it out so we could get some basic idea what it looked like, what it was.... We were all amazed by this debris that was there, primarily because we didn't know what it was, you know, it was just the unknown.... This writing [on a short piece of I-beam] could be described as like hieroglyphics, Egyptian-type hieroglyphics, but not really. The symbols that were on the I-beams were more of a geometric-type configuration in various designs. It had a violet-purple type color and was actually an embossed part of the metal itself. Years after this incident happened, we would talk privately among ourselves about what the possibilities of this, what this thing was. And I feel that we, well I know that we came to the conclusion it was not of earthly origin. If I had not actually held pieces of it in my hand, I would not think that it would be possible. But because I happened to see this, that's the only reason I believe it.... My dad said obviously it [the weather balloon story] was a cover-up story, it was not a weather balloon. He was a little disturbed about that, but he had his own security classification to protect. He could not really go public with, hey this is not the real thing, I mean this is not a weather balloon. So he had to keep that to himself. 5.3 Walter Haut [Second Lieutenant Walter Haut was a public information officer at Roswell AAF in 1947. Colonel Blanchard ordered Haut to issue a press release telling the country that the Army had found a flying saucer. Here is the text of Haut's press release.] The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the Intelligence office of the 509th Bomb Group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County. The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters. [Here is what Haut said on the American television program "Unsolved Mysteries".] I took the release into town. And that was one of the things that Colonel Blanchard told me to do, take it into town, because if there was any validity to this, he didn't want the news media to feel that we had jumped over their heads and were not cooperating with them. [Here is what Haut said in an interview for an article in "Air and Space/Smithsonian" magazine, Sep-Oct 1992, when asked what he thought really happened back in 1947.] I feel there was a crash of an extra-terrestrial vehicle near Corona. 5.4 Bill Rickett [Bill Rickett was a Counter Intelligence Corps officer based in Roswell. He had an opportunity to examine some of the wreckage recovered from the Foster Ranch. He escorted Dr Lincoln LaPaz, a meteor expert from the New Mexico Institute of Meteoritics, on a tour of the crash site and the surrounding area.] [The material] was very strong and very light. You could bend it but couldn't crease it. As far as I know, no one ever figured out what it was made of.... It was LaPaz's job to try to find out what the speed and trajectory of the thing was. LaPaz was a world-renowned expert on trajectories of objects in the sky, especially meteors, and I was told to give him all the help I could. At one point LaPaz interviewed the farmer [Mac Brazel]. I remember something coming up during their conversation about this fellow thinking that some of his animals had acted strangely after this thing happened. Dr LaPaz seemed very interested in this for some reason. LaPaz wanted to fly over the area, and this was arranged. He found one other spot where he felt this thing had touched down and then taken off again. The sand at this spot had been turned into a glass-like substance. We collected a boxful of samples of this material. As I recall, there were some metal samples here, too, of that same sort of thin foil stuff. LaPaz sent this box off somewhere for study; I don't know or recall where, but I never saw it again. This place was some miles from the other one. LaPaz was very good at talking to people, especially some of the local ranch hands who didn't speak a lot of English. LaPaz spoke Spanish. I remember he found a couple of people who had seen two -- I don't know what to call them, UFOs I suppose -- anyway, had seen two of these things fly over very slowly at a very low altitude on a date, in the evening, that he determined had been a day or two after the other one had blown up. These people said something about animals being affected, too.... Before he went back to Albuquerque, he told me that he was certain that this thing had gotten into trouble, that it had touched down for repairs, taken off again, and then exploded. He also felt certain there were more than one of these devices, and that the others had been looking for it. At least that's what he said. He was positive the thing had malfunctioned. The Air Force's explanation that it was a balloon was totally untrue. It was not a balloon. I never did know for sure what its purpose was, but it wasn't ours. I remember speculating with LaPaz that it might have been some higher civilization checking on us. LaPaz wasn't against the idea, but he was going to leave speculations out of his report. 5.5 F.B. [F.B. was an Army Air Forces photographer stationed at Anacostia Naval Air Station in Washington DC when he and fellow photographer A.K. were flown aboard a B-25 bomber to Roswell Army Air Field sometime during the second week of July 1947. F.B. was interviewed by Stanton Friedman.] One morning they came in and they said, "Pack up your bags and we'll have the cameras there, ready for you." We didn't know where we was going. [After a few hours' flight, they arrived at Roswell.] We got in a staff car with some of the gear they had brought along with us in trucks, and we headed out, about an hour and a half, we was heading north. We got out there [one of the crash sites in the Corona area] and there was a helluva lot of people out there, in a closed tent. You couldn't hardly see anything inside the tent. They said, "Set your camera up to take a picture fifteen feet away." A.K. got in a truck and headed out to where they was picking up pieces. All kinds of brass running around. And they was telling us what to do. Shoot this, shoot that. There was an officer in charge. He met us out there and he'd go into the tent and he'd come back and tell us, "OK." He'd stand there right besides us and [say], "OK, take this picture." There was four bodies I could see when the flash went off, but you was almost blind because it was a beautiful day, sunny. You'd go in this tent, which was awful dark. That's all I was taking, bodies. These bodies was under a canvas, and they'd open it up and you'd take a picture, flip out your flashbulb, put another one in [take another picture] and give him the film holder (each holder held two sheets of four-by-five inch cut film) and then you went to the next spot. I guess there was ten to twelve officers, and when I got ready to go in, they'd all come out. The tent was about twenty by thirty foot. The bodies looked like they was lying on a tarp. One guy did all the instructions. He'd take a flashlight and he'd come down there. "See this flashlight?" Yes sir. "You're in focus with it?" Yes sir. "Take a picture of this." He'd take the flashlight away. We just moved around in a circle, taking pictures. Seemed to me [the bodies] were all just about identical. Dark complected. I remember they was thin, and it looked like they had too big of a head. I took thirty shots. I think I had about fifteen [film] holders. It smelled funny in there. A.K. came back in a truck that was loaded down with debris. A lot of pieces sticking out that wasn't there when they took off. We got debriefed on the way back to the airport [Roswell Army Air Field]. About four the next morning, they woke us, they took us to the mess hall, we ate, we got back on the B-25 and headed back. When we got back to Anacostia we got debriefed some more, by a lieutenant commander. [It was made clear to both F.B and A.K. that whatever they thought they saw in New Mexico, they hadn't seen.] 5.6 Robert Porter [M/Sgt Robert Porter was a B-29 flight engineer with the 830th Bomb Squadron. He happens to be Loretta Proctor's brother. He was interviewed by Stanton Friedman.] We flew these pieces. [Some officers in the crew] told us it was parts of a flying saucer. The packages were in wrapping paper, one triangle-shaped about two and a half feet across the bottom, the rest in smaller, shoebox-sized packages. [They were in] brown paper with tape. It was just like I picked up an empty package, very light. The loaded triangle-shaped package and three shoebox-sized packages would have fit into the trunk of a car. On board were Lieutenant Colonel Payne Jennings [deputy commander of Roswell] and Major Marcel. Captain Anderson said it was from a flying saucer. We got to Fort Worth, they transferred [the packages] to a B-25 and took them to Wright [Field]. When we landed at [Fort Worth], Colonel Jennings told us to take care of maintenance, and after a guard was posted, we could eat lunch. We came back, they told us they had transferred the material to a B-25. They told us it was a weather balloon. It WASN'T a weather balloon. 5.7 Robert Shirkey [First Lieutenant Robert Shirkey was assistant operations officer of the 509th Bomb Group. He was interviewed by Stanton Friedman.] A call came in to have a B-29 ready to go as soon as possible. Where to? Forth Worth, on Colonel Blanchard's directive. [I was] in the Operations Office when Colonel Blanchard arrived and asked if the airplane was ready. When told it was, Blanchard waved to somebody, and approximately five people came in the front door, down the hallway, and onto the ramp to climb into the airplane, carrying parts of the crashed flying saucer. I got a very short glimpse, asked Blanchard to turn sideways so [I] could see too. Saw them carrying pieces of metal. They had one piece that was eighteen by twenty-four inches, brushed stainless steel in color. 5.8 Robert Slusher [S/Sgt Robert Slusher was assigned to the 393rd Bomb Squadron. On or about July 9, 1947, he was on board a B-29 that carried a single crate from Roswell AAF to Fort Worth AAF. Also on board were were four armed MPs. He said the crate was twelve feet long, five feet wide, and four feet high. Upon arrival at Fort Worth, the crate was loaded onto a flatbed weapons carrier and hauled off, accompanied by the MPs, who later rejoined the crew for the return flight. Robert Slusher was interviewed in 1991.] [There was an implication that the contents of the crate was sensitive to air pressure, which suggests that the crate contained something other than pieces of metal. The plane flew at the unusually low altitude of four to five thousand feet. Usually on such a trip a B-29 flies at twenty-five thousand feet, as its cabin is pressurized and the B-29 flies better at high alititude. However, the bomb bay where the crate was stowed cannot be pressurized.] The return flight was above twenty thousand feet, and the cabin was pressurized. The round trip took approximately three hours, fifteen minutes. The flight was unusual in that we flew there, dropped the cargo, and returned immediately. It was a hurried flight; normally we knew the day before there would be a flight. There was a rumor that the crate had debris from the crash. Whether there were any bodies, I don't know. The crate had been specially made; it had no markings. 5.9 Robert Smith [Robert Smith was a member of the First Air Transport Unit, which operated Douglas C-54 Skymaster four-engined cargo planes out of the Roswell AAF. He was interviewed in 1991.] A lot of people began coming in all of a sudden because of the official investigation. Somebody said it was a plane crash, but we heard from a man in Roswell that it was not a plane crash, it was something else, a strange object. There was another indication that something serious was going on. One night, when we were coming back to Roswell, a convoy of trucks covered with canvas passed us. When they got to the [airfield] gate, they headed over to this hangar on the east end, which was rather unusual. The truck convoy had red lights and sirens. My involvement in the incident was to help load crates of debris into the aircraft. We all became aware of the event when we went to the hangar on the east side of the ramp. There were a lot of people in plain clothes all over the place. They were inspectors, but they were strangers on the base. When challenged, they replied they were here on Project So-and-So, and flashed a card, which was different from a military ID card. We were taken to the hangar to load crates. There was a lot of farm dirt on the hangar floor. We loaded [the crates] on flatbeds and dollies. Each crate had to be checked as to width and height. We had to know which crates went on which plane. We loaded crates on three [or] four C-54s. We weren't supposed to know their destination, but we were told they were headed north. All I saw was a little piece of material. You could crumple it up, let it come out. You couldn't crease it. One of our people put it in his pocket. The piece of debris I saw was two to three inches square. It was jagged. When you crumpled it up, it then laid back out. And when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like celophane. It crackled when it was let out. There were no creases. There were armed guards around during loading of our planes, which was unusual at Roswell. There was no way to get to the ramp except through armed guards. There were MPs on the outskirts, and our personnel were between them and the planes. The largest [crate] was roughly twenty feet long, four to five feet high, and four to five feet wide. It took up an entire plane. It wasn't that heavy, but it was a large volume. The rest of the crates were two or three feet long and two feet square or smaller. The sergeant who had the piece of material said [it was like] the material in the crates. The entire loading took at least six, perhaps eight hours. Lunch was brought to us, which was unusual. The crates were brought to us on flatbed dollies, which was also unusual. Officially, we were told it was a crashed plane, but crashed planes usually were taken to the salvage yard, not flown out. I don't think it was an experimental plane, because not too many people in that area were experimenting with planes. I'm convinced that what we loaded was a UFO that got into mechanical problems. Even with the most intelligent people, things go wrong. [The C-54 into which I helped load the single twenty-foot crate] would have been Pappy Henderson's. I remember seeing T/Sgt Harbell Elzey, T/Sgt. Edward Bretherton, and S/Sgt. William Fortner. 5.10 Melvin Brown's Daughter [Sergeant Melvin Brown was a cook at Roswell AAF in 1947. One day, he was called out to help guard material retrieved from the Foster Ranch. His daughter Beverly was interviewed by Stanton Friedman in 1989.] When we were young, he used to tell us stories about things that had happened to him when he was young. We got to know those stories by heart and would all say together, "Here we go again." Sometimes, but not too often, he used to say that he saw a man from outer space. That used to make us all giggle like mad. He said he had to stand guard duty outside a hangar where a crashed flying saucer was stored, and that his commanding officer said, "Come on, Brownie, let's have a look inside." But they didn't see anything because it had all been packed up and [was] ready to be flown out to Texas. He also said that one day all available men were grabbed and that they had to stand guard where a crashed disc had come down. Everything was being loaded onto trucks, and he couldn't understand why some of the trucks had ice or something in them. He did not understand what they wanted to keep cold. Him and another guy had to ride in the back of one of the trucks, and although they were told that they could get into a lot of trouble if they took in too much of what was happening, they had a quick look under the covering and saw two dead bodies, alien bodies. We really had to giggle at that bit. He said they were smaller than a normal man, about four feet, and had much larger heads than us, with slanted eyes, and that the bodies looked yellowish, a bit Asian-looking. We did not believe him when we were kids, but as I got older, I did kind of believe it. Once I asked him if he was scared by them, and he said, "Hell no, they looked nice, almost as though they would be friendly if they were alive." 5.11 Pappy Henderson [Captain Oliver Wendell "Pappy" Henderson was stationed at Roswell AAF in 1947. He had flown thirty missions in B-24 Liberator bombers in Europe. He had participated in the postwar A-bomb tests in the Pacific and earned major commendations for his flying. Unfortunately, he died before any UFO investigator could interview him, but near the end of his life he old some of the people closest to him about what he had seen in July 1947.] 5.12 Pappy Henderson's Wife [Sappho Henderson was Pappy Henderson's wife. She was interviewed by Stanton Friedman.] We met during World War II when he flew with the 446th Bomb Squadron. He flew B-24s [on] thirty missions over Germany. After the war, he returned home and was then sent to Roswell. While stationed there, he ran the "Green Hornet Airline", which involved flying C-54s and C-47s carrying VIPs, scientists, and materials from Roswell to the Pacific during the atom bomb tests. He had to have a Top Secret clearance for this responsibility. In 1980 or 1981, he picked up a newspaper at a grocery store where we were living in San Diego. One article described the crash of a UFO outside Roswell, with the bodies of aliens discovered beside the craft. He pointed out the article to me and said, "I want you to read this article, because it's a true story. I'm the pilot who flew the wreckage of the UFO to Dayton, Ohio [where Wright Field is]. I guess now that they're putting it in the paper, I can tell you about this. I wanted to tell you for years." Pappy never discussed his work because of his security clearance. He described the beings as small with large heads for their size. He said the material that their suits were made of was different than anything he had ever seen. He said they looked strange. I believe he mentioned that the bodies had been packed in dry ice to preserve them. [Here is what Sappho Henderson said on the American television program "Unsolved Mysteries".] My husband Oliver Henderson, otherwise known as "Pappy" in the Air Force, he was entrusted with many of this country's top secrets. And they were safe with him. He never told anything that he wasn't supposed to. And therefore it was 34 years after this incident happened that I heard about it.... My husband told me the bodies were smaller than human bodies. The heads were larger and the eyes were rather sunken and a little slanted. Clothing was of material unlike anything he had seen before. They were strange, they were not of this earth. When my husband, who was a man of truth, who was trusted with 29 different Army aircraft planes, first pilot aircraft commander, tells me this story, I believed him. 5.13 Pappy Henderson's Daughter [Mary Kathryn Groode is Pappy Henderson's daughter.] When I was growing up, he and I would often spend evenings looking at the stars. On one occasion, I asked him what he was looking for. He said, "I'm looking for flying saucers. They're real, you know." In 1981, during a visit to my parents' home, my father showed me a newspaper article which described the crash of a UFO and the recovery of alien bodies outside Roswell, New Mexico. He told me that he saw the crashed craft and the alien bodies described in the article, and that he had flown the wreckage to Ohio. He described the alien beings as small and pale, with slanted eyes and large heads. He said they were humanoid-looking, but different from us. I think he said there were three bodies. He said the matter had been Top Secret and that he was not supposed to discuss it with anyone, but that he felt it was alright to tell me because it was in the newspaper. 5.14 Pappy Henderson's Relatives [Stanton Friedman spoke with Pappy Henderson's son and cousin, both of whom told of having heard Pappy quietly tell his story after the newspaper article appeared.] 5.15 Pappy Henderson's Friend #1 [John Kromschroeder is a dentist and a retired military officer. In 1977, Henderson told Kromschroeder that in 1947 he had transported wreckage and alien bodies. About a year later, Henderson showed Kromschroeder a piece of metal he had taken from the collection of wreckage. Kromschroeder and Henderson shared an interest in metallurgy. Kromschroeder was interviewed in 1990.] I gave it a good, thorough looking-at and decided it was an alloy we are not familiar with. Gray, lustrous metal resembling aluminum, lighter in weight and much stiffer. [We couldn't] bend it. Edges sharp and jagged. 5.16 Pappy Henderson's Friend #2 [In 1982, Pappy Henderson met with several members of his old bomber crew during a reunion. One of these men was later interviewed.] It was in his hotel room that he told us the story of the UFO and about his part. All we were told by Pappy is that he flew the plane to Wright Field. He definitely mentioned the bodies, but I don't recall any details except that they were small and different. I was skeptical at first, but soon saw that Pappy was quite serious. 6 PROSAIC EXPLANATIONS 6.1 Weather Balloon * If what crashed was a weather balloon, there would have been no need for secrecy. According to the testimony, military officers admonished subordinates and civilians not to talk about what they saw. * If what crashed was a weather balloon, Major Marcel would have recognized the material Mac Brazel showed him as weather balloon material, and would not have journeyed far out on a remote sheep ranch with an officer from the Counter Intelligence Corps to examine the crash site. * The wreckage described by Marcel and others was too voluminous, and spread out over too large an area, to have been the wreckage of a crashed weather balloon. * There is no reason the Army would transport the wreckage of a weather balloon from the remote desert outside Corona first to Roswell AAF, then on to Fort Worth AAF. * Most of the witnesses who saw or handled the wreckage would have recognized the remains of a crashed weather balloon. 6.2 Secret Rocket or Airplane * If what crashed was any kind of secret military apparatus, one would expect at least some of the pieces to have recognizable letters or numbers on them. Many of the witnesses say that some of the wreckage bore a very strange kind of writing, but not one witness has said that any of the wreckage bore any recognizable symbols. * If what crashed was any kind of secret military apparatus, the Army would have said simply, "This is secret, and no more questions will be answered, period." The Army would not have concocted the flying saucer and weather balloon stories. In 1947, Americans were less skeptical about the motives of their government, and the people of New Mexico, including journalists and other civilians, were dependent for their livelihood on secret military projects. * If what crashed was any kind of secret military apparatus, the Army would not have waited for a rancher to inform them of the crash before sending military personnel to examine the wreckage, five days after the crash. * Rockets and airplanes that were secret in 1947 are not secret now. If what crashed was a secret rocket or airplane, it would have been revealed as such years ago. (Incredibly, the Army is sticking to its weather balloon story, even though nobody believes it anymore.) * By July 1947, rockets launched from White Sands were fitted with self-destruct mechanisms so that an errant rocket could be destroyed before leaving the test range. The Corona crash site is about 75 miles from the nearest border of the test range. * They did not fly secret airplanes in New Mexico in 1947. There was plenty of room for that in California, where all the secret airplane projects were carried on. * There is no reason the Army would transport the wreckage of a crashed rocket or airplane to Fort Worth AAF, then to Wright AAF in Ohio. The wreckage of a secret rocket would stay in New Mexico, and the wreckage of a secret airplane would be sent back to California, if anywhere. * Most of the witnesses who saw or handled the wreckage would have recognized the remains of a crashed rocket or airplane. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ca855 From: ca855@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Allen Coody) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Hopi Indians and ET Date: 14 Jan 1993 20:17:30 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 7 Message-ID: <1j4hoqINN7qq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu The previous posting under this title shows what some call "The White Bear Fredericks Pattern". -- Robert A. Coody (Juan de los Caballeros) + Flagstaff, AZ + + + + + "Quien Vivira, Vera" + Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!mcsun!sun4nl!dutrun!dutrun2!dutncp8!eur From: eur@dutncp2.tn.tudelft.nl (Eur van Andel) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The basis of all alien sightings Summary: People _want_ to see aliens. Keywords: People, Aliens, etc. Message-ID: Date: 14 Jan 93 13:49:13 GMT Sender: news@dutrun2.tudelft.nl (UseNet News System) Organization: Delft University of Technology Lines: 67 Nntp-Posting-Host: dutncp8.tn.tudelft.nl Organisation: TU Delft, The Netherlands Ripped this from alt.folklore.ghost-stories ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I know a researcher here who is the epitome of a skeptic. For the last little while he has begun to work on the aspects of the paranormal. His theory states that all paranormal experience can be attributed to temporal lobe stimulation by magnetic field etc.. etc... In recent studies, he has placed human subjects into a "tank". This is , simply, a room that is constructed to be as free from stimuli as possible. ie. it is soundproof, dull and so on. Once the subjects are in this room an electromagnetic helmet is placed on their heads and they are left alone. The researcher, from a remote area, can change the intensity of the stimulation of the brain's temporal lobes by changing the magnetic field in the helmet. People have come out of that tank swearing that while they were in there, they spoke to dead relatives, had epiphanies and were abducted by aliens. The experiments are tightly controlled and designed. So, it would seem that there is scientific evidence to suggent that all supernatural occurences are merely figments of our imagination (or at least of our temporal lobes.) John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is what I thought all along: alien visitors are being seen because a visit from a different solar system is scientifically very, very interesting. It would shed some light on subjects we can never fully investigate because of our human nature, like: religion, sociology, evolution, etc. I am NOT implying that we cannot investigate these fields or that we haven't done so, but the mere fact that we are humans, cq a species evolved on this earth does imply that we have to take a lot for granted. How very nice would it be when some grey skinned :-) aliens landed here and showed us that life doesn't have to be DNA-based, that some of them believe in some form of God too, that all their laws of physics and mathematical axioma's are the same as ours, etc. Conclusion: Aliens are seen because people _want_ them to exist. Heaven and Hell are seen because people want to go there. ( A short note about near-death-experiences: ever tried to slowly turn your computer power voltage down? Be prepared for some weird things on your screen! So why shouldn't a brain behave very strange when deprived of oxygen? ) Something I didn't figure out yet: _we_ know why we want to meet aliens. But do the stupid farmers/bimbo's/John_Winstons know? They are abducted all the time :-) Another thing: we will not fly to aliens for a long time. If there is any meeting with grey/blue/pink creatures, they will have to come to us. So they will be far more advanced than we are, especially in interplanetary travel. Seems to me that the UFO beleivers got this far. However, in the history of this planet, there have been several clashes between different cultures (both man). In _all_ cases the lesser developed culture was destroyed. Do we really want that? We might end up like the North-American Indians. :-( Though the chance that greys carry diseases that might affect us is very small :-) -- eur eur@dutncp8.tn.tudelft.nl -- eur eur@dutncp8.tn.tudelft.nl Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5754 alt.alien.visitors:12603 Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!cornell!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!piccolo.cit.cornell.edu!crux2!sjm1 From: sjm1@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Iceland Boy!) Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: Sender: news@piccolo.cit.cornell.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: crux2.cit.cornell.edu Organization: Cornell Information Technologies References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <73500@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan13.161450.3039@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1993Jan14.135712.11539@gozer.mv.com> Date: 14 Jan 93 19:07:00 GMT Lines: 27 klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu (The_Doge) writes: >> But what *I* want to know is: howcum the Ferengi developed space >> travel and transporters and all that neat stuff without *ever* learning >> anything about basic dentistry? >The Ferengi probably didn't develop space travel and most of the other >advanced technologies that they possess. They probably stole them >from some other race that visited them, just as we will do (or may >already have done) when given the opportunity. >The Ferengi are, basically, lazy bastards who would find it easier to >steal than to conduct serious scientific research. Interesting note: According to one of Paul Tsongas's campaign leaflets, the word used for "white person" in Ethiopia used to be Ferengi (long before ST:TNG). Sort of accurate, considering what imperialism did for the peoples of Africa. (oh, p.s. the word now {according to Tsongas, of course} is actually Tsongi!) -- Iceland Boy! Defender of Hot Springs and Icelandic Food! sjm1@cornell.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.encore.com!csar!chattend From: chattend@csar.encore.com (Charlie Hattendorf) Subject: Re: Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre Message-ID: <1993Jan14.224659.6233@csar.encore.com> Organization: Encore Computer Corporation References: <93005.132748U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> <1993Jan12.193418.1801@netcom.com> <1993Jan13.133621.494@crc.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 22:46:59 GMT Lines: 41 sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: >In article <1993Jan12.193418.1801@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >> >> So I saw Steve's .sig >> >> I guess this is directed to Steve, but I wanted to do it publicly: >think this would make them look or behave identically. Look at studies of >identical twins. They do have in many cases many ideas the same and behave >similarly. As they get older these similarities seem to decrease. Steve: I remember vaguely a study done within the last year and 1/2 on identical twins, separated at birth which were not aware of one anothers existence. Understandably, there were not many test subjects available... I believe @40 pairs total were in the group. Results indicated mannerisms or behavior characteristics were amazingly similar, like 2 guys marrying a woman with the same first name, calling their pet by the same name, crushing their beer-can (!) in the same manner, etc. The test conductor stated that "about 70% of our behavior is pre determined genetically" (!) Personally, I'm for free-will, I would imagine more info is available in a psych or bio newsgroup. Also, isn't some genetic study done to eliminate disease? I shudder to think of parents in the future ordering children to some spec "Should Junior have blond or black hair, math wiz or jock?" etc. Here's to the 30% ! >Steve >-- >(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) >Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome >Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. >Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk * Charlie Hattendorf Realtime Computer support - /| * * Technical Representative While you wait! /-|MIGA works. * * 619-939-9252 NWC/ECRD "Build a system any fool can use, and only a fool * * internet: chattend@encore.com would want to use it" Murphy's corollaries * * views expressed are mine(d) alone. "There's AU in 'dem 'thar hills..." * Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Date: 14 Jan 93 11:07:41 GMT References: Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 35 Nntp-Posting-Host: hod.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Diane Atkinson (dementia@cwis.unomaha.edu) wrote: > u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: > >2) Crop circles. All are hoaxes. Speaking as a hoaxer myself, I've found that > >the "experts" cannot tell a natural circle from a manmade one, so any research > >would be pointless. > "All are hoaxes" is a rather sweeping statement. I can honestly say there > are those that *are* hoaxes, but there are those where it is not so easily > dismissed. I took a class here at UNO, and UFOs as well as crop circles > were discussed. > The information that was presented was scientific research of grasses and > grains affected by the circles. Hoaxes were obvious, as crops were > damaged and broken--no further growth occurred. > However, oddities were present in some circles, namely, grasses were not > broken and kept growing long after the formation of the circle. These grasses > could even later be harvested. Also noted were oddities occurring on growth > nodes of the grains that could be replicated--but only if stuck in a microwave > and nuked. There is no known technology that can cause sudden heat induced > changes in plant growth nodes while at the same time causing a bending but > not breaking of the same grasses. > So it is unknown exactly what causes these sorts of crop circles. I just > don't think all are people circling around with a board. That just couldn't > cause the above listed oddities. Some have said that the heat from a UFO, as > well as its strange sort of effects on gravity could cause such oddities. > A theory, but not proven. You may be right, but my main point was that the "experts" kept on saying that man-made circles were natural, or "not produced by anything on this planet" to quote one of them, therefore you cannot make up any theory until you can distinguish man-made circles from natural circles. The Cursor. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Date: 14 Jan 93 11:15:30 GMT References: <1993Jan13.045744.8256@bilver.uucp> Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 38 Nntp-Posting-Host: hod.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Don Allen (dona@bilver.uucp) wrote: > In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: > >I've been reading this newsgroup for a while now and would like to introduce > >some form of debate for readers to pick up on (JW excluded). > > > >3) Alien races. There are alien races, but how people on earth got their names > >is a mystery to me. "Greys" are another matter since some respected UFOlogists > >claim to have seen them (Tim Good, Bob Oeschler to name but two). I mean, the > >star, not a planet). > Gag! Calling Tim Good's book "Alien Liason" 'respectable' is pure bullshit. > And _Bob Oechsler_ is a TOTAL Bullshit artist..I HAVE talked with him. > Do some more research..the more I see about "respectable experts"..the > more of a skeptic I become..the biggest horseshit artists today are > Bill Cooper, Stanton Friedman (he actually BUYS Anderson's story about > Anderson being a "witness" at the 2nd Roswell crash..pure crap..ask Kevin > Randle and Don Ecker of UFO Magazine. > But the _biggest_ BS artist of the year award must go to Budd Hopkins > and his infamous "Linda case". > Listen..read everything you can..and remain skeptical. Ask HARD questions, > accept nothing at face value..especially the pronouncements of so-called > "experts". Accept nothing on "faith". I've been in this for well over 12 > years and question _everything_ . I take it you're a skeptic then. If you've read Tim's previous book, "Above Top Secret", he reveals the worldwide cover-up of the UFO phenomenon by refering to UFO sightings and also BACKING THEM UP with released, albeit partially censored, documents from the USAF. It is on the basis of this book that I was convinced of Tim's reliability in the UFO field, and is also why I respect Bob Oecshler since Tim says he doesn't write anything that he doesn't believe in without saying so. As for the other people you mentioned, I personally have never heard of them. The Cursor. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!psinntp!eye!kevin From: kevin@eye.com (Kevin Stokker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Don Allen Message-ID: <1993Jan14.130141.16212@eye.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 18:01:40 GMT References: <73324@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp> <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc. Ithaca, NY Lines: 23 In article <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> mdl@oscar.bellcore.com (Michael Lynch) writes: >In article <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: > > [text deleted] >|> >|> Sheesh..why do I bother reading this newsgroup? >|> > > >Don't stop!! You and a few others are the only reason I still subscribe >to this group. Your posts are sane and informative, and always interesting. >I appreciate the time and trouble you must go to to post some of the >lengthy articles I've seen here lately. > >I use xrn to read the news, and the poster's name is shown next to the >article title in the previewer. I weed out most of the garbage here by >simply homing in on your name and a few others. > > >Mike Lynch >mdl@oscar.bellcore.com Actually, I weed everybody _but_ JW out. I think he's hilarious. Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:37050 alt.paranormal:6313 alt.conspiracy:21898 alt.alien.visitors:12642 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,new,age,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!pacbell.com!well!sarfatti From: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) Subject: Channeling Star Trek Super Tech From Future? Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 03:33:07 GMT Lines: 52 16. Fixed-point renormalization group equation. A scaled family of spaces Vq is constructed from V. Define the dilation operator D Df(t) = (2^-1/2)f(t/2) (133) D stretches f by a factor of 2 without altering its norm. D S = S^2 D (134a) D^-1 S^2 = S D^-1 (134b) D^q S = S^2^q D^q (134c) Vq = D^q V (135) An orthonormal basis for Vq is f[q]n = D^q S^n f(t) = 2^-q/2 f(2^-qt - nT) (136) Vq has functions containing information only up to scale 2^q from samples at tn = 2^qnT. Note that Vq+1 is a subspace of Vq. *This sort of thing happens in Ken Wilson's "renormalization group" of the Ising model, for example. It is also a feature of fractal analysis. (JS) The pixel function must obey a kind of "fixed point" renormalization group equation for self-consistency (JS) f = D^-1 h(S)f = D^-1 S(n)[hnS^nf] (137) for a unique set {hn}. *I add, an amusing and curious synchronicity that such an important equation for coupling constants in renormlaization group is numbered at the reciprocal of the fine structure constant! No doubt, Saul Paul Sirag and Robert Anton Wilson would find in this the machinations of time-travelling dwarves from Zeta Rediculi in our future. Skeptics will pooh pooh this as the human tendency to create meaning out of random chance. Since f has compact support, the set is finite, so that h(S) is a finite polynomial. The h(S) operator averages while D^-1 "data compresses". The pixel function is a "fixed point" of this dual action of spreading and compression. The fixed point equation Df = h(S)f (137') says that the dilated pixel Df is a linear superposition of undilated pixel translates fn. from the Sarfatti Lectures in the New Physics - section on Wavelets Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The basis of all alien sightings Keywords: People, Aliens, etc. Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 93 02:40:33 GMT References: Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 173 eur@dutncp2.tn.tudelft.nl (Eur van Andel) writes: Ripped this from alt.folklore.ghost-stories... Here's a couple of other messages ripped from a.f.g-s that followed the original: ---------- From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Re: Neuropsychological basis of Ghosts Date: 14 Jan 93 18:45:34 GMT Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada s1400070@nickel.laurentian.ca writes: > I know a researcher here who is the epitome of a skeptic. For the last >little while he has begun to work on the aspects of the paranormal. His >theory states that all paranormal experience can be attributed to temporal >lobe stimulation by magnetic field etc.. etc... Since you're posting from Laurentian University, I can only assume you're referring to Dr. Michael Persinger. He is HARDLY the "epitome of a skeptic". I am one of the few researchers who has bothered to publish rebuttals to his work. Most of the geophysicists and psychologists I am in contact with are content to ignore him in the hope he will go away. Persinger has published dozens (hundreds by now?) articles suggesting that tectonic strain emissions affect the temporal lobe and as a consequence, people report seeing UFOs, ghosts, monsters and have religious visions. His critics have shown that many of his studies used contaminated or otherwise bad data to support his contention. In several cases, he showed "conclusively" that UFO sightings were statistically correlated with small earthquakes several months before OR after the sighting and as far away as 700 kilometres (!) from the sighting. The data he used consisted of raw UFO sighting reports, over 90% of which were shown to be misidentifications of airplanes, stars, etc. Given this and many other examples, his application of the theory to the paranormal is not very reassuring and impressive. His work was also discussed in sci.skeptic several times. If anyone is interested, I will try and dig out the references. Nice try. > In recent studies, he has placed human subjects into a "tank". This >tank swearing that while they were in there, they spoke to dead relatives, >had epiphanies and were abducted by aliens. The experiments are tightly >controlled and designed. So, it would seem that there is scientific evidence >to suggent that all supernatural occurences are merely figments of our >imagination (or at least of our temporal lobes.) That may be true, but Persinger's work doesn't support that theory, and it is hardly scientific evidence. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada --------- From: theresa@ics.uci.edu Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Skeptic Professor Date: 14 Jan 93 00:52:21 GMT One of the first rules that we learn when we study science is not to automatically assume that an event is the result of one cause-and-effect relationship. Creating an event in one manner should not be interpreted as the only way in which to create an event. Since I have not read the Dr. Persinger's work relating to this topic, I can not comment on his methodology, technique, nor conclusions. I can, however, question John's statement "...So, it would seem that there is scientific evidence to suggest that all supernatural occurences are merely figments of our imagination (or at least of our temporal lobes.)". I can take a half-filled, clear waterglass and tip it from side to side, but it would be rediculous to then discount the laws of gravity and phisics and to say that the effects of waves must actually be caused by the earth being tipped back and forth. After all, that is what I have done with my glass, isn't it? I have now disproved physics. My point is not to argue about the laws of gravity, but rather to point out that we can not assume "A + B + is the only way to get C". There is too much that we DON'T know about this world to be so confident in ourselves. Science is the art of proving one fact and disproving others. In order for John's statement to be correct, he would also have to disprove other theories of paranormal activity. That is the basis of science. I wish you well in your studies, Theresa -------- Here's a list of some works by Mr. Persinger I found in our local library catalog (just FYI): 1974 - "ELF and VLF Electormagnetic Field Effects" (as editor) 1977 - "Space-Time Transients and unusual events" (This must be work Chris referred to)... Rasmussen's "UFO Literature" has this to say about it. "Results of a computer study of 6,060 "Fortean Events" -- a variety of odd, unusual phenomena including 1,242 UFO reports -- sorted into categories of space, time, and nature of the report, with the authors concluding there are similarities between Fortean events and UFO sightings in terms of density and distribution. Many UFO reports, they suggest, may be generated by human perceptual reactions to high electrical fields producing low-level ionization of the air." [In other words, if you cannot explain something, blame it on the observer. -CWM] 1980 - "Transendental Meditation and cult mania" 1980 - "The Weather Matrix and Human Behavior" 1987 - "Neurospychological bases of God Beliefs" (This must be what John's original post was about) ... in any case, Conclusion: Aliens are seen because people _want_ them to exist. ... I might turn this around and say that the reason you do _not_ see aliens is because you do _not_ want to see them. Can you prove me wrong? Certainly not, because I can always attack the observer. Cuts both ways, donchaknow. ( A short note about near-death-experiences: ever tried to slowly turn your computer power voltage down? Be prepared for some weird things on your screen! So why shouldn't a brain behave very strange when deprived of oxygen? ) ... trying to draw a parallel between phospors and neurons is not really helpful to your case. However, in the history of this planet, there have been several clashes between different cultures (both man). In _all_ cases the lesser developed culture was destroyed. ... a misstatement. The lesser *military-technologically* developed culture was subsumed (though not necessarily destroyed.) Technological development is not the sum of a culture, nor is its military technology - witness the Mongols conquest of China (in which the more advanced culture in almost every way was conquered by the one with the better military technique and technology.) The Roman Empire, it may be argued, was destroyed by a "lesser culture" only after the military means to resist deteriorated enough, and not for any particular other reason. (And no, I don't want to get into an argument here about the fall of Rome.) Charles Xref: icaen sci.physics:35775 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2768 alt.conspiracy:21900 sci.skeptic:37051 alt.paranormal:6314 alt.alien.visitors:12644 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: POP! FIZZZ.... PSI WARS! Date: 17 Jan 1993 05:27:10 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 8 Message-ID: <1jaqnfINN52t@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu A poster here cites progessor Gordon Mumma(sp?) as stating the government attempted to enlist his aid in developing electronic weaponry? My question, where is professor Mumma now? Could he be interviewed for this newsgroup? Inquiring minds want to know, -Steve Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: beliefs Date: 17 Jan 1993 04:07:04 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1jam18INNpo@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article , billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) says: > BTW, anybody have flying dreams? Yep, and there good fun too! When I was younger, I used to float up into the air, but not too high, as I was afraid that the wind would carry me away. Now days I'm a bit better at it, I can fly around like a glider with speed and accuracy {using the tips of my outstreched hands like airlons} I once read in some book about dreaming {Can't remember the name} that one is more likely to fly when you are in a good mood {ie, you had a good day} , I believe this as being true, and I have never {repeat never} associated this with a possible abduction. But you asked, so I replied. Cheers Peter T. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!cbfsb!att-out!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: beliefs Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 93 03:52:16 GMT References: Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 75 billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: Some facts are evident : 1) people have been seeing unexplained flying objects for centuries; Yes, in the strictest sense. Of course, some could well have been meteors or comets. (Not saying that some weren't other things, though.) 2) people have been seeing wierd beings for centuries ... well, yes, but what these are might be is open to debate. 3) people have complained of being abducted by non-humans for centuries ... yes, but these are also open to debate. 4) modern sightings include radar contacts ... yes, absolutely. These are the most interesting, and often the most elusive. I seem to remember reading somewhere that airports keep videotapes of radar displays for review, but don't keep them for long. Could somebody enlighten me? 5) the government doesn't want to give out all it's information publicly ... absolutely, as the results of various FOIA requests have shown. 6) there are many other life-bearing planets in our galaxy (Drake equation) ... well, now, hold on. The Drake equation: N = R * fp * n * f1 * fi * fc * L (R = new stars every year; fp = fraction of stars with planets; n = fraction of planets capable of supporting life; f1 = fraction of planets where life actually originates; fi = fraction of life that is intelligent/tool-using; fc = fraction of intelligent life where that communicates over interstellar distances; L = lifetime of such a technological civilization, just to review) ... is just a guess at the factors involved. In the collection "First Contact", edited by Ben Bova and Byron Preiss (NAL Books, 1990), David Brin suggests at least three new factors: V = the velocity an interstellar culture grows into space (colonizing along the way) Lz = the lifetime of a "zone of colonization"; how long an interstellar culture explores in what becomes a settled region. A = "Approach/avoidance" factor - would another culture try to contact us at all? Would we notice, if they tried to contact us in a way we could not recognize? Anyway, if *any* factor is 0, then the Drake equation says there isn't anybody out there for us to talk to. (For instance, other technical civilizations may have destroyed themselves -- so L is small; or they may not wish to contact us yet ("The Prime Directive", and all that) -- so A is small; etc. It could be that *we* will be the first spacefaring race.) The factors assigned to each factor is a matter of guesswork, deciding how average our particular solar system is, and how average a race we are. If you presume we are a unique case (or nearly so), then we will be the ones contacting less developed races, rather than the other way around. If you presume we are average, then the galaxy (and other galaxies) are out there. Even then, its a big place... Anyway, nice post! (I bet that was more than the rest of you wanted to hear, eh? :-) Charles Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5798 alt.alien.visitors:12647 Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utzoo!censor!comspec!cspace!neuro From: neuro@cspace.comspec.com (Neuromancer) Subject: Re: Ferengi. Organization: Cyberspace Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 00:11:58 GMT Message-ID: References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <73500@cup.portal.com> Lines: 26 In article <73500@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the Ferengi people were thought >up in the TV series because they have everyone of the bad trates that >we as humans have (let the buyer beware). The Greys are just the opposite >of us so mix us together and maybe you'll get some of the good points >of each coming through. >John Winston. Personally, I have no bad trates, and neither do the Ferengi. I understand that bad trates start to smell really nasty after about a week or so. Maybe Kibo has some trates.... I can't parse the last sentence of John_-_Winston's message. Could someone please explain what the hell he/he/it is trying to say? Please let me know if you see a Ferengi... I have some Silly Putty (TM) I'd really like to trade for a tonne (metric) or so of gold. Never seen any Silly Putty (TM) in the 24th century have you? Neuromancer (WOW! John_-_Winston posted the 73500th message at cup.portal.com!) -- --------------------- All comments and opinions are my own -------------------- Bryan Fullerton aka Neuromancer Computer Variables, Inc neuro@cspace.comspec.com 155 East Beaver Creek, Unit 27 uunet.ca!comspec!cspace!neuro Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada L4B 2N2 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13557 alt.alien.visitors:12648 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!sparkyfs.erg.sri.com!csl.sri.com!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Rama 2. Message-ID: <73751@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 02:37:19 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 67 Subject: Rama. Part 2. This is a continuation of the information given by David, a person who came in contact with a space lady by the name of Rama. David was the one that showed Shirley MacLaine around in South America. As of a year ago David was in prison for some reason that has not been stated. So here we go into our story ...As I was having breakfast after my bath, I noticed a pickup truck dropping off someone. It was Rama. She'd hitchhiked a ride to meet me. A UFO was waiting for us nearby, she said. I couldn't believe my ears. Today I was going to take my first ride in a space ship. We got into the volkswagen and drove about fifteen minutes toward Huancayo. We came to a clearing where she asked me to pull off the road. We got out of the car and Rama took me by the arm, leading the way. By then the rain had let up. As we walked, I saw something that resembled a small rainbow, very weak in intensity. She told me this was an electromagnetic field that surrounds the UFOs completely, thus making them invisible while standing on the ground. We were no more than twenty-five feet from the craft and my eyes didn't see it. After we crossed the electrical frequency, it came into full view. This ship wasn't like the small "vimanas" I'd seen previously. It had the same form and fotball like shape, but it was much larger. It was metallic and seemed to have a silverish glow around it. As we approached the vehicle, which was resting on three metalic legs. Rama asked me to take off my shoes. I thought about Moses doing the same thing so many years ago on top of Mount Sinai. Rama explained that since my shoes were wet from the rain, and since water is a conductor of electricity, this would prevent me from getting a shock when I went into the ship. We were both given a pair of shoes, similar to sandals, made out of heavy wood. It looked more like cork. We climbed up a metal ladder that descended from a circular door. As I entered, I experinced a sudden chanxge of temperature. It was a bit colder than the already cold Andes Mountains. The sxe kind of feeling one gets when entering an air conditioned building, only somehow this was stranger. Two crew members, about four and a half to five feet tall, greeted us in silence. They were wearing one piece suits made of a shinning grey material. It covered them from head to toe. There was no doubt they were humanoids. I began to feel extremely nervous and uncomfortable an almost creepy feeling even though they were extremely peaceful in their attitudes. I sensed I was safe with them, but still the fear of the unknown held me back. As soon as I advanced two more steps, I came face to face with the crew leader, standing inside and oval room about 25 feet in length, 15 to 20 feet wide, with about a seven foot ceiling. Illumination came from all over the room, a red glow with a touch of orange. The crew leader had a nice face, with a benevolent expression. He had a long nose axnd slanted eyes that were elongated and extended around to the side of his head. I noticed he had no eyelashes and he didn't blink. But there was definitely eye activity. It took me a little while to figure out what made those eyes seem so alive. Then I noticed that his pupils narrowed and widened as he communicated with me. He got up from a triangular chair that was in front of some control panels, and walked over to receive us. Rama and the crew leader exchanged glances. It seemed as though the two of them had planned this visit. When he looked at me, I instinctively walked with him toward the control panel. His mouth tended to be still, but I could hear muffled words and sentences. It sounded as though he had a heavy accexnt. Sensing that I had difficulty understanding him, he changed his mode of communication. suddenly, I could hear his voice speakinxg to me inside my head, the smae as when Rama and I had our mind to mind chats. He showed me around the craft. The instrument panels looked like a console one would find in a computer room There were port holes all around the craft and my host told me that we were in an observation UFO, with a crew of four. Up to this monent, I'd seen only two. By flicking a switch, a screen-like device lit up and we were able to see outside the spaceship where the other two crew members were. End Part 2. Source of material: Date With the Gods by Charles A. Silva page 334. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13558 alt.alien.visitors:12649 sci.skeptic:37053 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!sparkyfs.erg.sri.com!csl.sri.com!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <73752@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 02:54:45 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan16.064501.9800@timesink.chi.il.us> Lines: 12 Dear Folks: I believe you will find that I meant to say, talked about worm holes. How about that Mary information was that a bad job I did in editing it or not. I tried to put it down in a readable form for two days and then finally figured that the people who wanted to read it would put forth the effort to figure it out and those how didn't wouldn't bother. I checked with a friend of mine about how much snow was on my property up on the sides and Mount Shasta and it has had a total of 11 feet of snow and 6 to 9 feet of snow is still on the ground. We just had about a 5.1 earthquake here in Calif. in this area yesterday. McCloud which is near Mt. Shasta was snowed in so bad the National Guard was called in to bring in supplies. John Winston Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!amdcad!amdint.amd.com!mozart!billp From: billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) Subject: culture clash Message-ID: Sender: usenet@amd.com Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 19:53:49 GMT Lines: 26 I have seen references to possible culture clashes with an alien culture drawing parallels with Native American culture and the invading White Man Culture. It is true that in most cases of two cultures clashing where one culture is technologically more advanced than the other, the less well developed culture eventually was absorbed or obliterated by the "superior" culture. Some people have said that this would happen if we were directly contacted by an alien spacefaring (therefore superior) culture. It seems to me that it is likely that another race of beings could be FAR superior to us. Like maybe 1,000,000 years of more evolution or something. In this case, it would not be two cultures of equivalent beings clashing; more like humans and chimps (or dogs). We have domesticated the dog, but have we obliterated the culture of dogs? If the space culture did exist, it might be impossible for us to understand what their motives are. We could still have a relationship, similar to dogs and men. Dogs know when we are happy, etc. However, the space people might view our planet as being occupied by wild, thoughtless, critters that kill and maim for fun. (I almost think that too!) I wouldn't blame them for their shyness; the alternative is to come in with a stun gun and keep the wild hairies off. -- Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!nntp.msstate.edu!Isis.MsState.Edu!cee1 From: cee1@ra.msstate.edu (Charles Evans) Subject: NICAP?? Does it still exist? Message-ID: Organization: Mississippi State University Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 22:01:55 GMT Lines: 11 Listening to some UFO tapes from the 70's the speaker mentioned all thru it a group called the National Investigations Committe on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP). Does this group still exist? ANyone have an address? Thanks -- Charles E. Evans | This nation is in decay because we are more cee1@ra.msstate.edu | concerned with RIGHTS and LAWS instead of cevans@abe.msstate.edu | RIGHTS and WRONGS. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13559 alt.alien.visitors:12652 sci.skeptic:37058 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!psci6.polisci.umn.edu!serb From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: psci6.polisci.umn.edu Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 23:22:23 GMT Lines: 26 In article <73645@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. > Last week I had the opportunity to watch the new T.V. series called Star >Trek: Deep Space Nine. I found it to be very good and I think it will be a >hit but I love everything about Star Trek. > The show is about different people and aliens aboard a space station. The >commander is Avery Brooks. They do a lot of taking about "wormholes" They >even have a Ferengi on the show. >John Winston. I second this. Star Trek constantly interweaves drama and suspense with social, philosophical and even spiritual issues, making it perhaps the most intellectually stimulating set of shows on the tube today. Granted, the original is 60s TV and can't be judged by 90s standards. And some of the episodes are rather bland (that can be said about every series). I'm curious what will happen with Deep Space Nine, but it looks good at the start. But they have more than one Ferengi on the show, a whole slew of them (I think thats the proper term for a group of Ferengis, a slew...or is it spelled slough?), incluing a trouble making child who, from what Newsweek reports (or was it TV Guide) will become friends with the Captian's impressionable son. This social/personal stuff will irritate those who think sci-fi should be all phasers and torpedos, but that's the key to Star Trek's success. -- ciao, Scott E., U. of Minnesota Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!almac!andy.liddiard From: andy.liddiard@almac.co.uk (Andy Liddiard) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circl Message-ID: <2487.1785.uupcb@almac.co.uk> Date: 17 Jan 93 16:13:00 GMT Reply-To: andy.liddiard@almac.co.uk (Andy Liddiard) Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371 Lines: 85 In response to Anna Anderson: Interesting meeting #117 I met a wild-eyed looking geek on a train coming back from Salisbury last year; we fell into conversation (well, he smelled my exotic cigarette and beamed in on me, to be truthful), whereupon it transpired that he had an interest in crop circles, Dr. Tesla &c. &c. Here is the gist of something he told me: When the "Crop Circle Hoax" story was published by many UK newspapers, in 1990, one paper in particular gave a strange credit to the story of Doug'n'Dave, the hoaxers. The _Today_ newspaper credited the copyright to "MBF"; subsequent enquiries by cereologists returned a host of conflicting explanations for the meaning of MBF - in short, the paper was a bit embarassed. Further enquiries reveal MBF to be a rather covert, possibly government funded company whose speciality is electromagnetics (This is all verbatim from my travelling companion). Theory has it that someone (MBF) is being paid by govt to experiment in Tesla scalar wave technology. Hence the test results, aka crop circles. Possibly of interest (this is left-field): In the film "2001", the computer was called HAL because these letters precede IBM - a subtle jest. Do the same to MBF and the result is LAE. Is there an electromagnetics company or research institute with the initials "LAE"? (Wild I know, but...). On the topic of crop circles, there was a meeting last year in the West of England to see if anyone could reproduce one of these things. Several nights were also spent watching various wheatfields, with some interesting observations. Apparently "genuine" circles formed in the presence of orange or white ball-shaped lights, and it is said an 80' diameter UFO was seen, from which orange balls emanated. There is a chap who was there who is a decent and reliable cove by name of Marshall Dudley; he published some statistics on circle formation after these observations (taken over 4 weeks). These he subsequently posted on the ILink network. Interestingly, the hoaxes seem to be perpetrated mainly at weekends, while the genuine articles appear between 10pm and 2am BST during week nights. If they are man made, it's a funny time of day to be at work. However, if they _are_ created remotely by some kind of Tesla wave pair-production energy, then they could be done in the afternoons from a site in the Western United States, taking time differences into account. This is, of course, purely speculative. What tickles me is that the real things seem to have been designed using AutoCad or similar, which leads me to suspect that there is some truth in the electromagnetic experiment theory; after all, they've only been appearing in quantity since 1980, and if you need computers to control the projection of such stuff and you haven't got a NASA sized budget, then 1980 would be about the earliest date when this might be feasible (with the introduction of the 80X86 chips and cheaper computing). Again, it should be remembered that there are many defence research establishments in a relatively small area of the South West of England where these things appear. Unanswered qeustions: 1) Why do these phenomena only appear in a few counties of South West England? Do they appear anywhere else? 2) Why only in wheatfields? 3) How is it that there are no tracks or footprints leading to the circles, and is there any connection with cattle mutilations which also have no tracks or disturbances in their vicinity? 4) What is the significance of the timings of genuine circle formation? 5) What is the significance of the non-random patterns, eg squares, circles, concentric rings, dumb-bells, mandelbrots etc? 6) What is the nature of the orange or white ball-lights seen moving around forming circles? 7) Why is there no "official" (government) comment on these phenomena? Andy ~ london ~ uk andy.liddiard@almac.co.uk notes01@clstr.pnl.ac.uk --- . SLMR 2.1a #112 . If code was meant to be portable, it would have wheels. Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5803 alt.alien.visitors:12654 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!access.usask.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!honte.uleth.ca!hg.uleth.ca!STD_FLEMING From: std_fleming@hg.uleth.ca (John Fleming) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: <1993Jan17.215407.11010@honte.uleth.ca> Date: 17 Jan 93 21:54:07 GMT References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <73500@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan13.161450.3039@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>,<1993Jan14.135712.11539@gozer.mv.com> Sender: news@honte.uleth.ca (News System) Reply-To: std_fleming@hg.uleth.ca Organization: University of Lethbridge Lines: 23 In article <1993Jan14.135712.11539@gozer.mv.com>, klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: >clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu (The_Doge) writes: >> But what *I* want to know is: howcum the Ferengi developed space >> travel and transporters and all that neat stuff without *ever* learning >> anything about basic dentistry? > >The Ferengi probably didn't develop space travel and most of the other >advanced technologies that they possess. They probably stole them >from some other race that visited them, just as we will do (or may >already have done) when given the opportunity. > >The Ferengi are, basically, lazy bastards who would find it easier to >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ steal than to conduct serious scientific research. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!!!!!????????? How dare you utter such false and defamatory statements against an alien race simply because they are fictional and have unpleasant teeth! John Fleming (sticking up for those who do not exist to defend themselves) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13560 alt.alien.visitors:12655 sci.skeptic:37059 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Weather Report. Message-ID: <73776@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 16:17:19 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 7 Dear Weather Watchers: The weather reports here in sunny Northern Caif. for the last week has been, floods, blizzards, earthquakes, funnel clouds (any other place they call them tornadoes) and more to come. It's got to where we have National Reports on T.V. with all sorts of forcasts. As they say in Hawaii something about be happy. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5805 alt.alien.visitors:12656 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: <73777@cup.portal.com> Date: 18 Jan 93 00:31:50 GMT References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <73500@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 2 Dear People: I believe you will find those trates were traits. John Winston Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12657 talk.religion.newage:13561 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Thanks Message-ID: <73780@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 16:45:16 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <12573@jjmhome.UUCP> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I would like to thank Betty for her work in putting out this material. It must have been a lot of work. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13568 alt.alien.visitors:12658 sci.skeptic:37060 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!gatech!concert!fletcher!kepley From: kepley@photon.phys.unca.edu (Brad Kepley) Subject: Re: Weather Report. Message-ID: <1993Jan18.011751.2629@cs.unca.edu> Sender: news@cs.unca.edu (Usenet News Adm) Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73776@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 01:17:51 GMT Lines: 11 In article <73776@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Weather Watchers: The weather reports here in sunny Northern >Caif. for the last week has been, floods, blizzards, earthquakes, >funnel clouds (any other place they call them tornadoes) and more >to come. It's got to where we have National Reports on T.V. with >all sorts of forcasts. As they say in Hawaii something about be >happy. >John Winston. What...is this just for our information or what? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13569 alt.alien.visitors:12659 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2. Date: 18 Jan 1993 00:33:02 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 33 Message-ID: <1jctrvINN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1j2cntINN2g5@zikzak.apana.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) says: > >Peter T. (petert@zikzak.apana.org.au) wrote: >> In article , cluster@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (General Access) says: >> > >> >In article <73367@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> Bla bla bla.... >> >>The End. >> >>John Winston., >> > >> > >> >what does this guy take? DMA?? > >> "I think he did a little too much LDS in the sixties " {Kirk} >> or >> He's a dis-information agent. > >> There my two favorites. >> Peter T. > > >Or even LSD. > >The Cursor. Ha! caught you! You are obviously not a trekkie fan, don't assume by that statement that I'm a great one myself. In the Star Trek movie, where Kirk and buddies go back in time to earth 198x, Kirk while trying to explain the behaviour of Spock to a young woman says: "He was part of the free speech movement at Berkley back in the sixtys, I think he did a little too much LDS" . Then every body in the theater realising he meant LSD goes ha ha ha.{actually I watched it on video}. Peter T. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien Past. Date: 18 Jan 1993 00:44:53 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1jcui5INN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <228.40599@tron.gun.de> <422800040@peg.pegasus.oz.au> <1993Jan15.204812.4128@ncsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1993Jan15.204812.4128@ncsu.edu>, bjsulliv@eos.ncsu.edu (BRIAN JEREMIAH SULLIVAN) says: > > >Who are we and why do they pick us? Presumably technology wise, we are not in a position to say no. Its easier to pick on a race, the majority of which don't beleive that you exist, than to pick on one that migh hit you back. Or looking at a different perspective, why assume that they ONLY picked us? Peter T. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13570 alt.alien.visitors:12661 sci.skeptic:37061 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Date: 18 Jan 1993 00:53:48 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1jcv2sINN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan16.064501.9800@timesink.chi.il.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1993Jan16.064501.9800@timesink.chi.il.us>, mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us (Michael Borowiec) says: > > >In Message-ID: <73645@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston writes: >> Last week I had the opportunity to watch the new T.V. series called Star >> Trek: Deep Space Nine. I found it to be very good and I think it will be a >> hit but I love everything about Star Trek. >> The show is about different people and aliens aboard a space station. The >> commander is Avery Brooks. They do a lot of taking about "wormholes" They >> even have a Ferengi on the show. >> John Winston. > >Get a clue John... this show has been so hyped up that everyone in the >known (and unknown) universe tuned in weeks ago... besides, how does one >"take" about a wormhole. You can't take them anywhere. If you tried to >touch one, your body would immediately be SUCKed into the inter- >dimensional vortex to re-emerge either thousands of parsecs away or at >the Men's Room at your local McDonalds. >- Mike Question: Is this just an episode from "the next generation" or perhaps a seperate telemovie? Secondly, I think JW may have made a spelling mistake, put an "l" into "taking" and it makes much more sense. {ie "talking"} Peter T. Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:37062 alt.alien.visitors:12662 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Erich von Daeniken has a new TV show in Germany Date: 18 Jan 1993 01:09:23 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 20 Message-ID: <1jd003INN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1993Jan16.203356.29269@rhrk.uni-kl.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1993Jan16.203356.29269@rhrk.uni-kl.de>, kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) says: >3) they'll come back. EvD says it would be not serious (right word?) to > speculate about when this could be. (right word?), I do not know ! It depends on what you are trying to say. Try putting in brackets a few other words you think might be similar. >Astronomer Carl Sagan, who was misquoted in one of the first EvD books: >"The most friendly thing I can say about him is that he ignores archaeological >science. Every time he sees a thing he doesn't understand he attributes it to >extraterrestrial beings, and since he does understand almost nothing, he sees >the evidence for extraterrestrial beings everywhere on this planet." >(translated from English to German and back) Did Carl Sagan say this about EvD, or did EvD say this about Carl Sagan? ie:Does the text above describe Carl Sagan, or EvD? Cheers Peter T. Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5807 alt.alien.visitors:12663 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ferengi. Date: 18 Jan 1993 01:16:26 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1jd0daINN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <73702@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <73702@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com says: > >Dear Ferengi Lovers and Haters: It might be good to go back and find >out exactly what Data said about the Feringi. I think he said that they >were similar to the Yankee Traders and embody most of the negative >attributes of the human race, or something to that effect. >John Winston. It was Commander Riker , not Data. Cheers Peter T. Xref: icaen sci.physics:35811 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2771 alt.conspiracy:21938 sci.skeptic:37064 alt.paranormal:6315 alt.alien.visitors:12664 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!cats.ucsc.edu!haynes From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: POP! FIZZZ.... PSI WARS! Date: 18 Jan 1993 02:51:09 GMT Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1jd5utINNdlu@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> References: <1jaqnfINN52t@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu In article <1jaqnfINN52t@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes: > >A poster here cites progessor Gordon Mumma(sp?) as stating the >government attempted to enlist his aid in developing electronic >weaponry? My question, where is professor Mumma now? Could he be >interviewed for this newsgroup? Finger mumma@cats.ucsc.edu to get his email address. -- haynes@cats.ucsc.edu haynes@cats.bitnet "Ya can talk all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was!" "No it aint! But ya gotta know the territory!" Meredith Willson: "The Music Man" Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2772 sci.skeptic:37065 alt.paranormal:6316 alt.conspiracy:21946 alt.alien.visitors:12665 Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!pacbell.com!well!sarfatti From: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) Subject: Subspace communication for Star Fleet Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 02:34:03 GMT Lines: 9 *Recall it is the "off-diagonal" unitarity of the time-evolution of orthogonal in Hilbert space beyond spacetime that supports the Einstein barrier in spacetime preventing faster-than-light quantum connection communication in standard quantum mechanics - even though the measuring process and the arrow of time are "non-unitary". The "subspace communicator" of Star Fleet tunnels through the unitarity barrier allowing communications with no delay over arbitrary spacetime intervals between sender nd receiver. Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2773 sci.skeptic:37068 alt.paranormal:6317 alt.alien.visitors:12666 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!utopia!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Future Physics Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 93 12:16:01 PST References: <1993Jan15.095111.905@netcom.com> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 18 rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) writes: > You post reminded me that that in a future life I should travel back > in time and give myself a hand. What me worry? I'm my own > guardian angel. > Well now you say that, why don't you just disproof Sarfatti's conjectures instead of attempting to be funny. Greetings -Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Stycx BBS +31 3404 59551 The responsibility for chance...lies within us. We must begin with ourselves, teaching ourselves not to close our minds prematurely to the novel, the suprising, the seemingly radical. -Alvin Toeffler Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!gateway From: Jim.Atwell@f851.n800.z3.fidonet.org (Jim Atwell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Aussie! UFOs Message-ID: <727371862.AA04393@csource.oz.au> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 20:01:00 Sender: gateway@csource.oz.au Lines: 23 To all those kind and interested enough to relpy to my original post. Thanks for your encouragement. I was supprised at the quantity of sane people we still have reading this group. I will be posting some Aussie UFO reports here in the near future. Firsy up will be 1992 in a nut-shell, then reports to date this year (with a little more detail), then reports as they come to hand. Thanks again. Regards, Jim Atwell | UFO Research (SA) Inc. | PO Box 281 Fidonet | Blair Athol SA 5084 3:800/851 | Australia ___ * CRR QWK 1.40 * * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851) Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2774 sci.skeptic:37069 alt.paranormal:6318 alt.conspiracy:21958 alt.alien.visitors:12668 alt.religion.kibology:5810 Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!enterpoop.mit.edu!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Subspace communication for Star Fleet Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.tech,alt.alien.visitors Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 06:47:56 GMT Lines: 25 [to random newsgroups] In sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes: >*Recall it is the "off-diagonal" unitarity of the time-evolution of >orthogonal in Hilbert space beyond spacetime that supports the Einstein >barrier in spacetime preventing faster-than-light quantum connection >communication in standard quantum mechanics - even though the measuring >process and the arrow of time are "non-unitary". The "subspace >communicator" of Star Fleet tunnels through the unitarity barrier allowing >communications with no delay over arbitrary spacetime intervals between >sender nd receiver. You know, I used to fault "Star Trek: The Next Generation" for all those scenes where Geordi spouts implausible technobabble for several minutes straight, which can always be summarized as "Captain, I'm going to push this button to magically make everyone happy, so they've given me this long speech to distract you from the huge holes in the plot." Then I learned to just lean back, kick up my heels, and have a good chuckle. Mr. Sarfatti obviously is still in the stage where he takes Star Trek seriously. I did, too, when I was a screaming nerd in junior high school. Clue: IT'S JUST A TV SHOW. -- K. Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5816 alt.alien.visitors:12669 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!xenitec!tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca!semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca!cherborth From: cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Chris Herborth) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: Organization: InterZONE Design Subject: Re: Ferengi. References: <1993Jan4.172206.15433@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <73500@cup.portal.com> <73702@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep 5 1992 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 16:50:46 EST Lines: 12 In <73702@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Ferengi Lovers and Haters: It might be good to go back and find > out exactly what Data said about the Feringi. I think he said that they > were similar to the Yankee Traders and embody most of the negative > attributes of the human race, or something to that effect. Did baseball season start again? Sheesh... -- -------------------========================================------------------- Chris Herborth cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!kingyopp From: kingyopp@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (marcel scholte) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: vALIDATION Message-ID: <8NeJXB1w165w@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 00:58:30 GMT Sender: bbs@draco.bison.mb.ca (BBS User) Organization: The Draco Unix System [BBS] Lines: 10 Æ ÿÿûwHATS GOING AROUND HERE i HAVE MY ECHO OFF AND THE DAM THING IS ECHOING CHARACTERS BACK TO ME!òžOH WELL. MABIE YOU CAN FIX THIS. ABOUT VALIDATION. IS THAT IN THE ORDER?«Ûøëyü#² --- kingyopp@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (marcel scholte) The Draco Unix System [BBS] Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13574 alt.alien.visitors:12671 sci.skeptic:37070 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!machine!timesink!mikebo From: mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us (Michael Borowiec) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan18.060908.17382@timesink.chi.il.us> Organization: HAM Radio Station N9EUZ, Naperville, IL References: <73645@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan16.064501.9800@timesink.chi.il.us> <1jcv2sINN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 06:09:08 GMT Lines: 30 In article <1jcv2sINN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) writes: >In article <1993Jan16.064501.9800@timesink.chi.il.us>, mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us (Michael Borowiec) says: >> >> >>In Message-ID: <73645@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston writes: >>> Last week I had the opportunity to watch the new T.V. series called Star >>> Trek: Deep Space Nine. I found it to be very good and I think it will be a >>> hit but I love everything about Star Trek. >>> The show is about different people and aliens aboard a space station. The >>> commander is Avery Brooks. They do a lot of taking about "wormholes" They >>> even have a Ferengi on the show. >>> John Winston. >> >>Get a clue John... this show has been so hyped up that everyone in the >>known (and unknown) universe tuned in weeks ago... besides, how does one >>"take" about a wormhole. You can't take them anywhere. If you tried to >>touch one, your body would immediately be SUCKed into the inter- >>dimensional vortex to re-emerge either thousands of parsecs away or at >>the Men's Room at your local McDonalds. >>- Mike > >Question: Is this just an episode from "the next generation" or perhaps a seperate telemovie? > >Secondly, I think JW may have made a spelling mistake, put an "l" into "taking" and it makes much more sense. >{ie "talking"} > Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! Doesn't ANYONE recognize satire when they see it! OK, how does one "take" a wormhole? (-8 Better...? - Mike Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13575 alt.alien.visitors:12672 sci.skeptic:37072 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 13:02:16 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 58 In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >I second this. Star Trek constantly interweaves drama and suspense with >social, philosophical and even spiritual issues, making it perhaps the most >intellectually stimulating set of shows on the tube today. Which is a bit like saying that "Gertrude, here, is the furriest goldfish in my aquarium". Granted, Star Trek may be intellectually stimulating compared to, say, Monday Night Football, or intellectually stimulating if you have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece of lawn furniture. But that's as far as it goes. I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. > Granted, the original is 60s TV and can't be judged by 90s standards. Please restate: are you saying that 90's standards are better or worse than 60's standards? > And some of the episodes are rather bland (that can be said about every > series). Not to mention every show. >I'm curious what will happen with Deep Space Nine, but it looks good at the >start. But they have more than one Ferengi on the show, a whole slew of >them (I think thats the proper term for a group of Ferengis, a slew...or is >it spelled slough?), incluing a trouble making child who, from what Newsweek >reports (or was it TV Guide) will become friends with the Captian's >impressionable son. This social/personal stuff will irritate those who >think sci-fi should be all phasers and torpedos, but that's the key to Star >Trek's success. The key to Star Trek's success is its ability to successfully merchandise its themes and ideas by convincing viewers that it offers genuine insight, wit, and meaningful commentary on current topics. Flattery, it seems, will get you *everywhere* with the TV generation: tell them that they're intelligent and that they demonstrate this by watching your "intellectually stimulating" TV show and they'll tune in in droves. The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th and 20th century literature, including important works of science fiction! ---peter Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2777 sci.skeptic:37074 alt.paranormal:6319 alt.conspiracy:21978 alt.alien.visitors:12673 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!usenet From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Nobody of Importance) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Subspace communication for Star Fleet Date: 18 Jan 1993 14:05:46 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX Lines: 36 Message-ID: <1jedfqINNl1e@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dumbo.cc.utexas.edu In article sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes: ] ]*Recall it is the "off-diagonal" unitarity of the time-evolution of ]orthogonal in Hilbert space beyond spacetime that supports the Einstein ]barrier in spacetime preventing faster-than-light quantum connection ]communication in standard quantum mechanics - even though the measuring ]process and the arrow of time are "non-unitary". The "subspace ]communicator" of Star Fleet tunnels through the unitarity barrier allowing ]communications with no delay over arbitrary spacetime intervals between ]sender nd receiver. There is a pretty good technobabble description of subspace communications in the ST:TNG Technical Manual. Since it's also considered 'canon' with the show you can use it as an explanation. Hit 'n' now to avoid an obnoxious sig thingie. Subject: Patrick Chester |Words to live by: Age: NOYB |"Military action is important to the Address: A place |nation--it is the ground of death and Email:wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |life, the path of survival and destruction Political Views: Somewhere in orbit |so it is important to examine it."-Sun Tzu Blackmarks: Politically Incorrect |Famous Last Words: (hobbies) Anime Otaku/Trekker |--If you cut me down, I will only become Technocentric |more powerful... Netrekker (claypigeon) |--Shhh!! There it is again.... Whole bunch of -isms |--Use the bazooka to open the door... Won't remove Sun Tzu quote to |--I cut the red wire... make the Greens happy ;) |--I have a *very* bad feeling about this -- <***** INSERT LAWSUIT DEFLECTION TEXT*****> I speak (type actually) for myself only. Even if I did decide to speak for UT, no one would listen. Flame away, I don't bleedin' care... Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: the Einstein conspiracy (TM)?? Date: 18 Jan 1993 08:24:32 -0600 Organization: University of Confused Thought Lines: 12 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <1jeej0INNake@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <1igi33INNmsr@ub.d.umn.edu> <1993Jan17.002819.14155@netcom.com> Reply-To: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu Previously ergo@netcom.com (Isaac Rabinovitch) wrote: [Einstein conspiracy theory debate deleted] >You poor ignorant fool. You are obviously unaware of Murphy's Law of >Conspiracy: if there can be a conspiracy, there is a conspiracy! The corallary to that law is: If there is a conspiracy, some idiot will believe in it. -- Scott Erickson serickso@ub.d.umn.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13578 alt.alien.visitors:12675 sci.skeptic:37083 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!netnews.srv.cs.cmu.edu!gerry From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. In-Reply-To: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com's message of 18 Jan 93 13:02:16 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@cs.cmu.edu (Usenet News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: onion.frc.ri.cmu.edu Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 17:31:05 GMT Lines: 28 Peter, Get a life. You are so full of shit, your eyes are brown! I watch St:TNG and ST:DS9. Why? Because its entertaining! There is no scientific validity to the show, but we know that. They do occasionally try to get some "moralistic" point across, but so what. It's fun! People who say that they dont watch tv at all are idiots. Sure, a vast majority of the programming is garbage, but the same applies to most fields of endeavour. Are you seriously going to tell us that all books are equally well written? Why read then? How about movies, sports teams, etc. People like Peter need to learn how to live. -- Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu) | Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, Field Robotics Center, | an aliment without which it instantly ex- Carnegie Mellon University | pires. But it could not be a less folly to Pittsburgh, PA, 15213 | abolish liberty, which is essential to pol- (412) 268-3856 | itical life, because it nourishes faction | than it would be to wish the annihilation The opinions expressed are mine | of air, which is essential to animal life, and do not reflect the official | because it imparts to fire its destructive position of CMU, FRC, RedZone, | agency. James Madison or any other organization. | Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13579 alt.alien.visitors:12676 sci.skeptic:37085 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!rtech!amdahl!charon.amdahl.com!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Weather Report. Message-ID: <1993Jan18.180739.25612@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73776@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 18:07:39 GMT Lines: 29 In article <73776@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Weather Watchers: The weather reports here in sunny Northern >Caif. for the last week has been, floods, blizzards, earthquakes, >funnel clouds (any other place they call them tornadoes) and more A funnel cloud is what they call the tornado before it touches ground. Once they touch ground, they are called tornados in N Ca as well. I have seen a small funnel cloud, it did not descend very far from the cloud, and eventually dissapated. I was rather hoping to see my first tornado up close. Then again, I though hurricane weather was great. You can (only) stand at a 45 degree angle into the wind, and the raindrops stung. >to come. It's got to where we have National Reports on T.V. with >all sorts of forcasts. > As they say in Hawaii something about be >happy. This one mystifies and amazes me. Do you mean that something is about to happen? Or that somebody is about to be happy? >John Winston. Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!seq!brownt From: brownt@seq.uncwil.edu (brown todd francis) Subject: Request #2: PLEASE REPOST MESSAGE ON FREE ENERGY Message-ID: <1993Jan18.190411.22266@seq.uncwil.edu> Keywords: free energy Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:04:11 GMT Lines: 2 Please repost lenghty post on FREE ENERGY. Thank you. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!easix!tron.gun.de!locatech From: locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Organization: TRON Public Mailbox, Neuss, Germany Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 13:18:00 +0100 Lines: 19 \JOHN_-_\WINSTON%CUP.PORTAL.COM@USENET schrieb am 15.01.93 um 10:05: \P> Dear Folks: It's good to hear that Kibo is back. I'm glad you got the \P> tape and it's OK if you want to dub the tape and pass the copies out \P> to other people. Betty is doing the same things. That comment by \P> Press2 was the best flame of the year. I really had a big laugh over it. \P> Keep it up. \P> John Winston. Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. Please give me some Information on him... so long... Joerg -- * Origin : PGP 2.0 public key available upon request. // THE_DOT V2.05b DEMO // Xref: icaen rec.arts.startrek.tech:7489 alt.alien.visitors:12679 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!hopper!jeg7e From: jeg7e@hopper.ACS.Virginia.EDU (Jon Gefaell) Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Subspace communication for Star Fleet Message-ID: <1993Jan18.183132.13524@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 18 Jan 93 18:31:32 GMT References: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: UVA. FREE Public Access UNIX! Lines: 10 In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >[to random newsgroups] > >Mr. Sarfatti obviously is still in the stage where he takes Star Trek >seriously. I did, too, when I was a screaming nerd in junior high >school. Clue: IT'S JUST A TV SHOW. Likewise, IT'S JUST USENET! :) Beam me up.... Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13580 alt.alien.visitors:12680 sci.skeptic:37089 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!unixhub!roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU!sschaff From: sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Sender: news@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:47:56 GMT Lines: 15 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: |> I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because |> the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, |> masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) |> when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. I beg to differ. "The Simpsons" sometimes rises to a distinctly middle-brow level. Any series that can devote a good fraction of an episode to poking fun at Ayn Rand deserves all the support it can get. -- Steve Schaffner sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu The opinions expressed may be mine, and may not be those of SLAC, Stanford University, or the DOE. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13581 alt.alien.visitors:12681 sci.skeptic:37090 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!psci11.polisci.umn.edu!serb From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: psci11.polisci.umn.edu Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:43:24 GMT Lines: 97 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >>I second this. Star Trek constantly interweaves drama and suspense with >>social, philosophical and even spiritual issues, making it perhaps the most >>intellectually stimulating set of shows on the tube today. > Which is a bit like saying that "Gertrude, here, is the furriest > goldfish in my aquarium". Granted, Star Trek may be intellectually > stimulating compared to, say, Monday Night Football, or intellectually > stimulating if you have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece > of lawn furniture. But that's as far as it goes. > I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because > the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, > masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) > when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. I still disagree. In the last couple of years ST:NG has dealt with medical ethics, gender issues, parenting, the futility of war, justice (in many different ways), cultural relativism and multiculturalism, the relation of technology to science, and to life, and I could go on and on. As a social scientist with an interest in physics and science, I can accept some non- scientific aspects in order to deal with problems of our society in a differnt context. The idealism of ST:NG (we can achieve something better) is also a needed addition to our cynical (and as your posting shows sometimes hypercritical :> ) culture. It's also NOT low brow. I recognize attempts to deal with different philosophical positions and issues in those episodes. Granted, this is done subtely and the average viewer may not recognize them all the time, but it does have to appeal to a mass market to stay on the air. It's an art to do that while saying something, and given the number of educated people who enjoy it, you are probably somewhat presumptuous in your comments. OK, more than somewhat. >> Granted, the original is 60s TV and can't be judged by 90s standards. > Please restate: are you saying that 90's standards are better or > worse than 60's standards? Much worse. The role of women, minorities and the ability to deal with social issues was very difficult in the sixties. In fact, many controversial ideas of Gene Roddenberry (dealing with racism and sexism) for the original show were nixed by studio execs. I'm sure this still happens with the new shows, but the opportunities have expanded greatly. >> And some of the episodes are rather bland (that can be said about every >> series). > > Not to mention every show. Only if you don't think about them and just want to sit there and be entertained. Then it will be bland. > The key to Star Trek's success is its ability to successfully > merchandise its themes and ideas by convincing viewers that > it offers genuine insight, wit, and meaningful commentary on > current topics. Flattery, it seems, will get you *everywhere* > with the TV generation: tell them that they're intelligent and > that they demonstrate this by watching your "intellectually > stimulating" TV show and they'll tune in in droves. And unsubstantiated criticism probably works in this culture too. You're just labeling it, you're not explaining why you say these things. I think that perhaps you don't watch it, and you're simply reacting to a stereotype. Or perhaps you lack the ability to see that your idea of intellect may be different from someone elses. I am perfectly willing to accept that very intelligent people don't like Star Trek or TV. People have different tastes and ways of enjoying things. But if you say that real intellect requires having your tastes and your view on things (and all who don't are simply being misled by flattery) you're demonstrating extreme intolerance. Since tolerance is a theme in ST:NG, that probably helps explain why you don't like the show. > The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and > isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these > themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such > diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the > Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th > and 20th century literature, including important works of science > fiction! Perhaps the average viewer. But I've read many diverse subjects, and while classical Greek literature and the bible and SHakespeare are good, fiction doesn't stop being good just because it becomes modern. Shakespeare was criticized in his day for appealing to the masses and lacking intellect as well. Also, many modern issues aren't dealt with in those classics. Furthermore, TV is also a form of art. Just like many plays are rather bad and die out, so do many TV shows. Some live on, and for TV, Star Trek is one because it deals with philosophical issues. Your above paragraph smacks again of intellectual arrogance and lack of tolerance. Furthermore, I could give some very critical remarks about especially the Bible and Greek classical literature, but that would be another subject. >---peter - Scott Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13583 alt.alien.visitors:12682 sci.skeptic:37091 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!hela.iti.org!cs.widener.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <105378@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 18 Jan 93 17:17:20 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because > the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, > masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) > when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. > [other TV flaming deleted for sake of bandwidth] While I basically agree that the technical insight of STrek is practically null, I would not say it's total bullshit. Look, we have a ENTERTAINING media here, and if you try and put nothing but very profound or subtle thinking into it, nobody will listen. Still, some producers think they can make something a little more than mindless soaps. SOME STrek shows were very good, IMHO. As for the Simpsons, they are definitly funny, and make a very good (and sometimes quite subtle - watch closely and you'll see) social satire. In fact, this raises the question: how to put more "intelligent" thinking into TV ? It seems possible, as proved by BBC, for example. JM. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13584 alt.alien.visitors:12683 sci.skeptic:37092 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 20:28:51 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 87 In article gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: >Peter, > >Get a life. You are so full of shit, your eyes are brown! This is the best insult you could come up with? >I watch St:TNG and ST:DS9. Why? Because its entertaining! There is >no scientific validity to the show, but we know that. We didn't ask why YOU watch it, did we? Your emotional outburst of a posting only serves to reinforce my claims about the reading skills/habits of TV watchers . . . I WAS RESPONDING TO A POST IN WHICH THE OTHER POSTER DESCRIBED STAR TREK AS "INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING"! >People who say that they dont watch tv at all are idiots. Sure, a >vast majority of the programming is garbage, but the same applies to >most fields of endeavour. Are you seriously going to tell us that all >books are equally well written? Why read then? Fortunately, in the case of books I can use reviews and choice of authors and subject matter to get a high rate of "hits" when I'm seeking quality. In all my years of mindless channel surfing (yes, I was a TV addict) I hardly *ever* saw anything of real quality. I'm not saying it's not out there; but it's so RARE that it required wasting INCREDIBLE amounts of time, wading through amazing amounts of poop to find it. I may not like *everything* that our civilization deems "great literature" but I wouldn't go wrong too often if I just stuck with that. And I can do the equivalent of "channel surfing" in a bookstore - reading snatches of dialogue or descriptive prose until I find something good or intriguing. In a decent (say Barnes & Noble) size bookstore in a half-hour of doing that I can find several good books. In an EVENING of channel surfing on TV I usually couldn't find ONE program that wasn't for complete idiots. It's HARD to do good TV. A decent author can usually get someone to publish him, even if it's a small art publisher. But getting a TV show on requires buy-in at many levels of a huge corporations, and then a cast of actors, direction, cinematography, sound, scripting, set design, etc. There are all kinds of technical restrictions in putting decent pictures on a tiny, low-res, 4:3 NTSC image. And there are any number of restrictions based on time, censorship rules, adverstiser's ideas of who their markets are, pressure groups that the network doesn't want to offend, keeping continuity with earleier or later episodes or not killing off "regular" characters, or the desire to appeal to a mass market. ANY ONE OF THESE can mess up a show, and usually does. It's so INCREDIBLY constrained that it's a wonder any TV show in history is any good. But if *by some miracle* a good program survives all that, there's the constant interruptions of advertisements every 12 minutes, at least on the commercial stations. > How about movies, I don't go to movies very often; I went to one last year with my wife. Sometimes I rent videos to watch if I have a lot of bills to pay or balance my checkbook, or do other boring stuff, so there's something to occupy my mind. Usually stand-up comedy. And one nice thing about renting is that there's no advertising. > sports teams, etc. I play volleyball, I xc-ski, I hike, swim, run, etc. Why should I waste my time watching *other* people having more fun than I'm having, instead of going out and having fun myself? >People like Peter need to learn how to live. Excuse me? You call passively watching OTHER people doing things "living"? Star Trek isn't "living". Why don't you go out and explore "strange new worlds" in real life? You don't need a starship -- the *real* world is as fascinating, strange, and new as anything they can dream up on TV. ---peter Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Cc: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:09:00 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Lines: 18 In article <1993Jan14.191800.8564@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, Christopher Schmidt writes > ROSWELL TESTIMONY . . . . . ... . >(Incredibly, the Army is sticking to its weather balloon >story, even though nobody believes it anymore.) How does the army reconcile the secrecy surrounding the salvaging operation and the subsequent threats made to civilians with the explanation that it was just a weather balloon ? -Sean. asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk | warlock@spuddy.uucp Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan19.001603.7533@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 19 Jan 93 00:16:03 GMT References: Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 61 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com In article <1993Jan14.191800.8564@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, Christopher Schmidt writes > ROSWELL TESTIMONY . . . . . ... . >(Incredibly, the Army is sticking to its weather balloon >story, even though nobody believes it anymore.) >>How does the army reconcile the secrecy surrounding the salvaging operation >>and the subsequent threats made to civilians with the explanation that it was >>just a weather balloon ? >>-Sean. >>asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk | warlock@spuddy.uucp Sean, Easy......it's called stonewalling. There is a body of evidence, but nobody is willing to challenge the government in a lawsuit. If enough people came forward with a class action suit, mabye something would happen. As it stands now, the government pretty much ignores(outwardly) people with such claims. What is needed is a very large amount of money & or a weak link involved up to his/her eyeballs in the conspiracy, willing to come forward for whatever reason, to catch these weasels in the act. Then again, mabye we could get John_-_Winston to warm up the astral train once again & do the world a big favor. For the good of all mankind.......name a few names, listen in on some conversations, mabye infiltrate the pentagon, Area 51, S4, etc,etc,etc...........How about it John...............................>>>> >>>>>infinity..... Rod (I watch STTG & STDS9, so what of it) Beckwith ping -f -s40000000000 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Date: 18 Jan 93 09:30:54 GMT References: Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: elbe.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Peter Nelson (nelson_p@apollo.hp.com) wrote: > >In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. > >Humphries) wrote: > >> > >> 1) Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, I have frequently come > >> accross cattle mutilations. > They demand > no greater proof, no physical evidence. > ---peter True, I didn't do too well in English (partially due to the fact that my school was having loads of cuts). I myself don't think that cattle mutilations are a UFO phenomenon, but are something man-made. As for proof, look in the appendix of Tim Good's Alien Liaisons for photostats of documents detailing reports of cattle mutilations, or the photos in the photo section. > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: Date: 18 Jan 93 10:22:23 GMT References: Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 33 Nntp-Posting-Host: wea.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] N.M. Humphries (u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk) wrote: > Peter Nelson (nelson_p@apollo.hp.com) wrote: > > >In article , u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. > > >Humphries) wrote: > > >> > > >> 1) Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, I have frequently come > > >> accross cattle mutilations. > > They demand > > no greater proof, no physical evidence. > > ---peter > True, I didn't do too well in English (partially due to the fact that my school > was having loads of cuts). I myself don't think that cattle mutilations are a > UFO phenomenon, but are something man-made. As for proof, look in the appendix > of Tim Good's Alien Liaisons for photostats of documents detailing reports of > cattle mutilations, or the photos in the photo section. > > Perhaps I didn't put what I said above too well. I have an open mind about the reasons for the cattle mutilations, but there is as much evidence for UFO involvement as there is for vampire activity. Proof for the evidence of cattle mutilation can be found in "Alien Liaisons". --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!kfisher3 From: kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) Subject: The "New Fizziks" Message-ID: Summary: wierd stuff Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 01:32:50 GMT Lines: 25 I was recently fumbling through our "extensive" (yah, right) library here at the university, and encountered a strange book by Bob Tobin, featuring ideas by Fred Wolf and our friend Jack Sarfatti. It is called "Space-Time and beyond", and it looks (and reads) much like a kiddie book. In it, a cornucopia of wierd "facts" and "theories" are presented, all about this "new physics" we've been hearing about here recently. THis book attempts to explain everything from telepathy to healing and levitation, all through "explanations" in physics. Actually, the explanations are about one page long each, and hardly convincing in the least, as they just present a potpourri of quotes pulled out of context from various important physicists like Einstein, astronomers like James Jeans and others. I wouldn't recommend anyone get this book unless they are into the New Age, 'cause it reads like one of those flakey manuals of that movement. However, take it as you will, these ideas ARE interesting, if amusing... -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin Fisher ><> | "Thank you. You can't believe everything you kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca | see and hear, can you?" - Hendrix, 'EXP' ________________________________________________________________________________ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13585 alt.alien.visitors:12689 sci.skeptic:37113 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Date: 19 Jan 1993 01:57:28 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 19 Message-ID: <1jfn69INNboj@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <73645@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan16.064501.9800@timesink.chi.il.us> <1jcv2sINN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1993Jan18.060908.17382@timesink.chi.il.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1993Jan18.060908.17382@timesink.chi.il.us>, mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us (Michael Borowiec) says: >>Question: Is this just an episode from "the next generation" or perhaps a seperate telemovie? >> >>Secondly, I think JW may have made a spelling mistake, put an "l" into "taking" and it makes much more sense. >>{ie "talking"} >> >Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! Doesn't ANYONE recognize satire when they see it! >OK, how does one "take" a wormhole? (-8 Better...? >- Mike Benefit of doubt ol boy, I came to two conclusions after reading your reply to JW, 1. Satire: response=ha ha ha he he he 2. Serious: response=follow up article Relax man, you're too stressed out. Anyway, how about my question ? Cheers Peter T. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13586 alt.alien.visitors:12690 sci.skeptic:37114 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!machine!timesink!mikebo From: mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us (Michael Borowiec) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan18.195146.19954@timesink.chi.il.us> Organization: HAM Radio Station N9EUZ, Naperville, IL References: <73645@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:51:46 GMT Lines: 83 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: > >>I second this. Star Trek constantly interweaves drama and suspense with >>social, philosophical and even spiritual issues, making it perhaps the most >>intellectually stimulating set of shows on the tube today. > > Which is a bit like saying that "Gertrude, here, is the furriest > goldfish in my aquarium". Granted, Star Trek may be intellectually > stimulating compared to, say, Monday Night Football, or intellectually > stimulating if you have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece > of lawn furniture. But that's as far as it goes. > I disagree... your comments make me wonder how many episodes you've actually watched. Some are indeed lame... but most are a rewarding viewing experience. > I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because > the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, > masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) > when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. > This is what I thought... you condemn the series, and television altogether, but you don't watch it. Hmmmm... >> Granted, the original is 60s TV and can't be judged by 90s standards. > > Please restate: are you saying that 90's standards are better or > worse than 60's standards? > He probably meant in terms of technical standards such as special effects. But let's let him defend his own statements. > >> And some of the episodes are rather bland (that can be said about every >> series). > > Not to mention every show. > This is an opinion... like music, television shows have their champions and detractors. I think most classical music is crap, yet I'm sure many people find it a rewarding listening experience. > The key to Star Trek's success is its ability to successfully > merchandise its themes and ideas by convincing viewers that > it offers genuine insight, wit, and meaningful commentary on > current topics. Flattery, it seems, will get you *everywhere* > with the TV generation: tell them that they're intelligent and > that they demonstrate this by watching your "intellectually > stimulating" TV show and they'll tune in in droves. > I don't recall reading or hearing any such "flattery". Matter of fact I initially hated the show. I couldn't believe the audacity of naming the series "Star Trek" at all. I felt that they should have come up with a new name altogether. Having watched the show for the past year now, I've changed my opinion. TNG is a continuation of Roddenberry's creation, much the same as the Harperhall series was a continuation of Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders series. > The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and > isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these > themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such > diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the > Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th > and 20th century literature, including important works of science > fiction! > This is a pompous attitude and makes you look like a snob... On what statistics do you base your ridiculous notions? The people I know who watch the series are voracious readers, as am I... Just because we chose to explore these themes through an upbeat, modern medium (television) doesn't mean they are invalid or less meaningful. Frankly, I find reading classical Greek, the Bible or anything middle english to be excruciating. This has the effect of making the medium more important than the message. One should also acknowlege that there is a great deal more "space" to thoroughly explore themes in a book compared to a 40 minute television episode. Comparing one to the other isn't quite fair. - Mike Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!pivo From: pivo@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (pivo) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: the universe Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 01:04:19 GMT Sender: bbs@draco.bison.mb.ca (BBS User) Organization: The Draco Unix System [BBS] Lines: 40 to the sysop, i am a new user! really nice to cybo-meet you. i don't know if this is one of those annoying sex infested bbs's or not if so, puritan paul is here to stomp out all sinful behaviour, if you're just a bunch of really cool computer types interested in good clean bbs'ing then all the best to you and i hope to see you in heaven. --- pivo@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (pivo) The Draco Unix System [BBS] Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12692 alt.religion.kibology:5838 rec.humor:73457 alt.sex:89616 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,rec.humor,alt.sex Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman IN BED? Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.humor,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 05:56:51 GMT Lines: 19 In article <614.79204@tron.gun.de> locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) writes: >\JOHN_-_\WINSTON%CUP.PORTAL.COM@USENET schrieb am 15.01.93 um 10:05: > >\P> Dear Folks: It's good to hear that Kibo is back. I'm glad you got the >\P> tape and it's OK if you want to dub the tape and pass the copies out >\P> to other people. Betty is doing the same things. That comment by >\P> Press2 was the best flame of the year. I really had a big laugh over it. >\P> Keep it up. >\P> John Winston. > >Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. >Please give me some Information on him... Me too! Also, can anyone send me the Green Golfball Joke? -- K. Xref: icaen rec.humor:73458 alt.sex:89619 alt.alien.visitors:12693 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!rpi!usc!wupost!gumby!yale!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!ai-lab!life.ai.mit.edu!friedman From: friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Noah Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.humor,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman IN BED? Followup-To: rec.humor,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors Date: 19 Jan 93 01:27:04 Organization: Free Software Foundation, 675 Mass Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139 Lines: 4 Message-ID: References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: kibo@world.std.com's message of Tue, 19 Jan 1993 05:56:51 GMT In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >Also, can anyone send me the Green Golfball Joke? Me too! Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5841 alt.alien.visitors:12694 Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: <1993Jan19.071024.19726@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Jan14.135712.11539@gozer.mv.com> <1993Jan15.175351.21658@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 07:10:24 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1993Jan15.175351.21658@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes: > >with about 50 trillion star trek froups out there, why the FUCK do >we have to still talk about it here. ITS JUST A TV SHOW. > >back to kibo: exactly which planet did he come from? This may not be relevant, but Kibo has been voted the Spokesperson for the Earth, and gave a long winstonian acceptance speach. As a result of the speach, that usenet authorities have promised to kill the accounts of anybody who tells kibO the green golfball joke. Use extreme caution. Rich payner@netcom.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: Date: 19 Jan 93 10:16:27 GMT References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: Can't tell: it's a secret Lines: 14 Joerg Loehn writes: > > Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. > Please give me some Information on him... I can't believe there's still somebody who doesn't know who is Kibo. Only somebody just arrived from outer space wouldn't know that. Maybe Kibo can find a few seconds in his busy schedule and wear his Spokesman for Earth hat? -- Claudio Calvelli (formerly "The Voting Booth") - clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!maths.tcd.ie!dove From: dove@maths.tcd.ie (colum clissmann) Subject: Alien Visitors! Message-ID: <1993Jan19.104409.2714@maths.tcd.ie> Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 10:44:09 GMT Lines: 12 For any fans of Ford Prefect, he has graced our planet with his company again but for only 14 hours this time instead of his previous 14 years. There is simple reason for this , our mostly harmless planet is yet again blown up by the attractive poetry loving VOGONS with Ford,Arthur,trillian,tricia(trillian in a different probability universe) all present. :wq xxxxxx Ar kj Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!hippo!shannon!concave.cs.wits.ac.za!wayne From: wayne@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Wayne Smith) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan19.110625.15855@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za> Sender: news@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za Organization: Wits Univ. Computer Science Dept. References: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 11:06:25 GMT Lines: 4 Concerning this case: with all the apparent debris lying around, and all the people who were supposed to have been at or near the site, why isn't it that someone kept some of the strange material as a keepsake? And if someone did keep some of it what would happen if they went public with it?? Cheers, Wayne Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12698 alt.religion.kibology:5844 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!europa.asd.contel.com!hick.asd.contel.com From: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick) Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: <9301190909.AA12202@hick.asd.contel.com> Sender: news@europa.asd.contel.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: shick.eng.gtefsd.com Reply-To: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick) Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b31 References: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 09:09:12 GMT Lines: 15 In article , sjm1@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Iceland Boy!) writes: > Interesting note: According to one of Paul Tsongas's campaign > leaflets, the word used for "white person" in Ethiopia used to be > Ferengi (long before ST:TNG). Sort of accurate, considering what > imperialism did for the peoples of Africa. (oh, p.s. the word now { > according to Tsongas, of course} is actually Tsongi!) Ferengi is (?Urdu?) for foreigner, and is used all over India to describe foreign materials brought in by the Europeans. Xref: icaen rec.humor:73466 alt.sex:89647 alt.alien.visitors:12699 alt.religion.kibology:5845 Newsgroups: rec.humor,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!wcstom From: wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman IN BED? Message-ID: <1993Jan19.145052.15719@cunews.carleton.ca> Followup-To: rec.humor,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Sender: tom hamill Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 14:50:52 GMT Lines: 25 In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >In article <614.79204@tron.gun.de> locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) writes: >>\JOHN_-_\WINSTON%CUP.PORTAL.COM@USENET schrieb am 15.01.93 um 10:05: >> >>\P> Dear Folks: It's good to hear that Kibo is back. I'm glad you got the >> >>Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. >>Please give me some Information on him... > >Me too! > Check out the newsgroup 'alt.religion.kibology'. Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask. ---tom l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l l CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH l l How could you have ever lived your life without it? l l Join Now, Apply Within. Spread the word. l l____________________________ ---me, trying to save the world, l l wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca l from itself. l ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Date: 19 Jan 1993 08:57:31 -0600 Organization: University of Confused Thought Lines: 27 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <1jh4srINNqc5@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <73645@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu Previously nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) wrote: > > The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and > isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these > themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such > diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the > Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th > and 20th century literature, including important works of science > fiction! > >---peter Ahh, the wonderful sound of acedemic arrogance. O, how I wish everybody could be as intellectually advanced as Peter, then nobody would bother watching that drivel on tv. After all, only an ignorant person would fail to see that there is much better ways of being entertained. Can not people see that the cultured class has found the proper intellectual material for us to consume? Why, Peter was nice enough to even list what the proper reading material is! Come along all you ignorant people, do what the intelligentsia has told you to do. -- Scott Erickson serickso@ub.d.umn.edu "I've always admired those people with so much time and energy that they can spend time attacking their friends, rather than their enemies." Karl Hess Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Date: 19 Jan 1993 08:41:42 -0600 Organization: University of Confused Thought Lines: 20 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <1jh3v6INNm0f@ub.d.umn.edu> References: Reply-To: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu Previously gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) wrote: >Peter, >Get a life. You are so full of shit, your eyes are brown! >People who say that they dont watch tv at all are idiots. Sure, a >People like Peter need to learn how to live. >Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu) Gee, Gerry, you sure sound defensive. Did Peter touch a sore spot? Maybe the truth hurts. Oh yes, could explain how people like Peter are to live. Your post was not very clear on the proper way of living. -- Scott Erickson serickso@ub.d.umn.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13588 alt.alien.visitors:12702 sci.skeptic:37136 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 16:02:43 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 89 In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >> I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because >> the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, >> masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) >> when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. > >I still disagree. In the last couple of years ST:NG has dealt with medical >ethics, gender issues, parenting, the futility of war, justice (in many >different ways), cultural relativism and multiculturalism, the relation of >technology to science, and to life, and I could go on and on. LOTS of things have "dealt with" these issues! Other TV programs, magazines, books, discussion groups, social and political movements, religions, popular music, stage productions, gallery art, etc. Why is this a recommendation of Star Trek. My point is that if I feel like addressing these issues I can find better sources than a preachy, self-righteous, simplistic TV show like Star Trek. The fact that STNG discusses these things doesn't mean they do so particularly well. > It's also NOT low brow. I recognize attempts to deal with different > philosophical positions and issues in those episodes. That doesn't make it not low-brow. > Granted, this is done subtely "Sublety" is not a word I would ever use to describe STNG. They telegraph their endings and philosophical viewpoints miles off. > but it does have to appeal to a mass market to >stay on the air. Exactly the problem. This doesn't deny my points; it just makes excuses for them. > It's an art to do that while saying something, and given >the number of educated people who enjoy it, you are probably somewhat >presumptuous in your comments. OK, more than somewhat. So what? "Education" in the US is a commodity. Many people graduate from college and seldom open a book, have an original thought, or perform a creative act again in their lives. I've had discussions with "educated" people on science and geography and other basic topics that should have been taught in school and have been appalled. Two weeks ago I returned from Tahiti and was *amazed* at the number of college-educated people who hadn't a clue where in the world it was (even what ocean, or what hemisphere). Another reason I stopped watching TV was the INCREDIBLY stupid and wrong information passed off as "facts" that I used to hear daily on network TV news. But presumably the anchors and editors are "educated" people. So I don't attach much significance to what "educated" people do. All I'm saying is that if you want insightful commentary on issues there is better to be found on non-TV sources. If you want enter- tainment, i.e., action, adventure, drama, pathos, suspense, comedy, witty dialogue, etc, you can do better than TV for those things as well. >>> Granted, the original is 60s TV and can't be judged by 90s standards. > >> Please restate: are you saying that 90's standards are better or >> worse than 60's standards? > >Much worse. The role of women, minorities and the ability to deal with >social issues was very difficult in the sixties. In other words 60's TV wasn't as politically correct. >And unsubstantiated criticism probably works in this culture too. You're >just labeling it, you're not explaining why you say these things. I think >that perhaps you don't watch it, I don't watch ANY TV now. But I used to watch it up 'til about a year and a half ago. ---peter Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13592 alt.alien.visitors:12703 sci.skeptic:37138 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 16:31:45 GMT References: <1993Jan18.195146.19954@timesink.chi.il.us> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 86 In article <1993Jan18.195146.19954@timesink.chi.il.us> mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us (Michael Borowiec) writes: >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >>In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >> >>>I second this. Star Trek constantly interweaves drama and suspense with >>>social, philosophical and even spiritual issues, making it perhaps the most >>>intellectually stimulating set of shows on the tube today. >> >> Which is a bit like saying that "Gertrude, here, is the furriest >> goldfish in my aquarium". Granted, Star Trek may be intellectually >> stimulating compared to, say, Monday Night Football, or intellectually >> stimulating if you have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece >> of lawn furniture. But that's as far as it goes. >> I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because >> the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, >> masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) >> when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. >> >This is what I thought... you condemn the series, and television >altogether, but you don't watch it. Hmmmm... I watched all the STNG episodes for the first two years and about half after that until about 18 months ago. >> The key to Star Trek's success is its ability to successfully >> merchandise its themes and ideas by convincing viewers that >> it offers genuine insight, wit, and meaningful commentary on >> current topics. Flattery, it seems, will get you *everywhere* >> with the TV generation: tell them that they're intelligent and >> that they demonstrate this by watching your "intellectually >> stimulating" TV show and they'll tune in in droves. >> >I don't recall reading or hearing any such "flattery". Matter of fact The "flattery" consists of making broad, obvious philosophical points about themes like "war", racism", etc, in sufficiently indirect (meaning hardly indirect at all) ways that the viewers are able to congratulate themselves on "getting it". It makes the duller viewrs feel smart because they got the point. Un- fortunatelt it makes the rest of us feel like we're being talked, or preached, down-to. >> The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and >> isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these >> themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such >> diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the >> Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th >> and 20th century literature, including important works of science >> fiction! >> >This is a pompous attitude and makes you look like a snob... I *am* a snob. > Just because >we chose to explore these themes through an upbeat, modern medium >(television) doesn't mean they are invalid or less meaningful. Except that they aren't *exploring* these themes any more than someone who goes to Club Med in St. Lucia is "exploring" St. Lucia. Star Trek talks about racism -- it doesn't "explore" it. To do that, read something by Richard Wright or James Baldwin. Your comments illustrate my point: people THINK that they're exploring great philosophical issues by watching TV shows. > Frankly, I find reading classical Greek, the Bible or anything middle > english to be excruciating. > One should also acknowlege that there is a great deal >more "space" to thoroughly explore themes in a book compared to a 40 >minute television episode. Comparing one to the other isn't quite fair. Of course. But you can't have your cake and it it too. All this does is explain WHY TV can't offer real depth of insight. ---peter Xref: icaen rec.humor:73481 alt.alien.visitors:12704 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: rec.humor,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman IN BED? Message-ID: <105599@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 19 Jan 93 17:40:05 GMT References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Followup-To: rec.humor Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 37 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article , kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: > In article <614.79204@tron.gun.de> locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) writes: > > > >Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. > >Please give me some Information on him... > > Me too! > > Also, can anyone send me the Green Golfball Joke? > > -- K. All Right, here is the Joke: A Martian Goes and play golf on a nearby orange (that's what greens are called there). As he approaches hole 19 (There are 19.5 holes in martian golfs), his ball (I mean his _golf_ ball, you JW !) tells him: "Beware of the Kaeerwerk, buddy ." To what he replies (and that's the funny part): ^H^G&%#@@@@ ]]H eNDAboRt^H%^H 614.7920C137ILIKe6r .L5E@wor.coWinsTonm4@tron.gun.de Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13594 alt.alien.visitors:12705 sci.skeptic:37142 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!europa.asd.contel.com!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!psci22.polisci.umn.edu!serb From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: psci22.polisci.umn.edu Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota References: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 17:44:07 GMT Lines: 112 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >>In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >>I still disagree. In the last couple of years ST:NG has dealt with medical >>ethics, gender issues, parenting, the futility of war, justice (in many >>different ways), cultural relativism and multiculturalism, the relation of >>technology to science, and to life, and I could go on and on. > > LOTS of things have "dealt with" these issues! Other TV programs, > magazines, books, discussion groups, social and political movements, > religions, popular music, stage productions, gallery art, etc. > Why is this a recommendation of Star Trek. My point is that if > I feel like addressing these issues I can find better sources > than a preachy, self-righteous, simplistic TV show like Star Trek. > The fact that STNG discusses these things doesn't mean they do so > particularly well. The thing I still disagree with you is that you are attacking ST:NG's way of dealing with these things as "preachy, self-righteous, simplistic" which seems more a rather "low-brow" (to use your term) method of argumentation by insult. That might work for politicians, but it really doesn't carry much intellectual weight. Usually ST:NG tries to: -- show different sides of issues and leave interpretation open -- promote tolerance of different perspectives -- use drama and fantasy to bring these issues to life, something that TV can do better than many other sources Some of the shows really blow me away with the power of their message, as did the first Deep Space Nine episode which dealt with a powerful emotional theme, the nature of time, and a bit tension and drama. Perhaps that isn't to your taste -- some people are liberal, some are conservative, some like fantasy, others like hard cold facts, etc. There are many different people with many different ways of experiencing the world out there. I am convinced that my tastes are different from yours, but I don't think that you have any logical grounds for proclaiming yours better -- unless its mere prejudice. >> but it does have to appeal to a mass market to >>stay on the air. > Exactly the problem. This doesn't deny my points; it just makes > excuses for them. Well, gee, lighten up a bit. It sounds like you think "the masses are asses" and that appealing to them is per se beneath what you consider good communication. My speciality is German politics, and that sort of attitude is reminiscient of how the East German state treated it's people before they finally revolted. Only the intellectual elite understood the world, it was claimed. Without tolerance of diversity, there is no liberty. > So what? "Education" in the US is a commodity. Many people graduate > from college and seldom open a book, have an original thought, or > perform a creative act again in their lives. I've had discussions > with "educated" people on science and geography and other basic > topics that should have been taught in school and have been appalled. > Two weeks ago I returned from Tahiti and was *amazed* at the number > of college-educated people who hadn't a clue where in the world > it was (even what ocean, or what hemisphere). Another reason I > stopped watching TV was the INCREDIBLY stupid and wrong information > passed off as "facts" that I used to hear daily on network TV news. > But presumably the anchors and editors are "educated" people. So > I don't attach much significance to what "educated" people do. I agree with a lot of what you say; I've studied in Italy and did dissertation work in Germany, and I have experienced similar feelings about American education, the news system, etc. But there are also many people in this country who are both educated and insightful, and I think that ST:NG represents entertainment that many of those enjoy. The Simpsons I would also put in this category, because it has many subthemes and considerable social criticism of our society (including of the things you complain about above) that probably goes over the head of a lot of people watching. ST:NG and the Simpsons are favorites of more Profs and doctoral candidates than any other shows I know of. Does this say they are great shows? No. But look, there is something there that appeals to people, and it's not just inane late 20th century marketing. Even if you can't see it, I would wish that you would trust that fact that some very smart and educated people do see it. And I'm talking about people who are just as well-read as you, if not more. > All I'm saying is that if you want insightful commentary on issues > there is better to be found on non-TV sources. If you want enter- > tainment, i.e., action, adventure, drama, pathos, suspense, comedy, > witty dialogue, etc, you can do better than TV for those things as > well. Define better. Again, somethings are dealt with in a certain way in drama that can't be done through cold argumentation. That happens when you go away from a well performed play with a feeling that the message was powerful. Or when you see a film and discuss it with friends for hours -- how it was performed, what was meant, etc. After ST:DS9's premiere a group of us talked for a long time about the nature of time, relativity, and psychology. The issues were too complex to go into here, but I guarantee you that it wasn't a superficial conversation. AGAIN, you might find these topics boring or dumb, but others don't. And who are you to judge? I rather doubt that you are better read or more insightful than my friends and I. I don't mean to sound arrogant with that statement, arrogance begets arrogance, and you sound pretty snobby. > In other words 60's TV wasn't as politically correct. In other words, 60's TV represented a lot of bigotry and intolerance in society that TV was not allowed to confront. Now TV is confronting it. The label politically correct is silly, and again you seem to want to attack things via insult rather than logic. You may not disagree with the political content of what's on TV, but that has little to do with its intellectual value. Thanks for the provacative reply to my last post! - Scott, U. of Minnesota Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!laidbak!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) Subject: Re^2: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <1993Jan19.144431.16788@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: tellabh Organization: Carl Pellonpaa Fan Club - South Chapter References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 14:44:31 GMT Lines: 7 In article <614.79204@tron.gun.de> locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) writes: > >Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. >Please give me some Information on him... Many are they who ARE called, but FEW are they that knowf Kibo. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circl Message-ID: Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada References: <2487.1785.uupcb@almac.co.uk> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 19:01:37 GMT Lines: 62 In <2487.1785.uupcb@almac.co.uk> andy.liddiard@almac.co.uk (Andy Liddiard) writes: >with some interesting observations. Apparently "genuine" circles >formed in the presence of orange or white ball-shaped lights, and it >is said an 80' diameter UFO was seen, from which orange balls >emanated. There is a chap who was there who is a decent and reliable >cove by name of Marshall Dudley; he published some statistics on >circle formation after these observations (taken over 4 weeks). >These he subsequently posted on the ILink network. Can you repost these here? We've been looking for some hard data on the British circle scene. >Unanswered qeustions: >1) Why do these phenomena only appear in a few counties of South >West England? Do they appear anywhere else? Yes, they appear around the world. There were 92 circles in North America in 1992 (we've just started working on the 1992 report). >2) Why only in wheatfields? They're not only in wheatfields, of course. They also have been found in virtyally any other crop you want to name: corn, barley, grass, alfalfa, etc. >3) How is it that there are no tracks or footprints leading to the >circles, and is there any connection with cattle mutilations which >also have no tracks or disturbances in their vicinity? Big quantum leap to connect these, though some people link them. Footprints have been found at many sites, by the way. >4) What is the significance of the timings of genuine circle >formation? Probably none. >5) What is the significance of the non-random patterns, eg squares, >circles, concentric rings, dumb-bells, mandelbrots etc? It's felt by many people that the complex formations are hoaxes. Even vortex-theory supporters have pulled back and think only the simple singles are "genuine". >6) What is the nature of the orange or white ball-lights seen moving >around forming circles? Unknown. Only a comparatively few cases have these, and they're not restricted to the "genuine ones", I might add. >7) Why is there no "official" (government) comment on these >phenomena? They're not interested in them. Yes, yes, I know what Wingfield et al. are saying, but I don't think the idea has much real support. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada From: andre@krypta.in-berlin.de (Andre Eichner) Sender: uucp@krypta.in-berlin.de Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE!news.netmbx.de!unlisys!harvey!krypta!uucp Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Message to the "Greys" Message-ID: <727350074.AA01420@krypta.in-berlin.de> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1993 12:00:00 +0200 Lines: 28 Hello Paul! Wednesday January 13 1993, Paul Milsom writes to All: PM> MESSAGE TO "THE GREYS" (OR OTHER ETs WILLING TO COMMUNICATE) PM> I am assuming that you have full access to our communications networks and PM> that you even keep an eye on this newsgroup. :-))) PM> Would you be prepared to communicate with us through this medium? I think, it's better if you try it telepathically. I think, that the greys don't communicate or read in this area... too many stuff.... In europe, we have a special network and a area for personal kontacts without noise or twit messages... (german language...) PM> It would also be of advantage if you could reply in some way that can't be PM> faked by terrestrials, but I don't know all the possibilities. I like to have a smaltalk with our alien friends, too! :-) cheers Andre * Origin:ParaNet -==- the light of the planet (2:2403/10) * Origin: -==- The UFO Information In Berlin (2:2403/10) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13596 alt.alien.visitors:12709 sci.skeptic:37149 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gossip.pyramid.com!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 19 Jan 93 19:52:09 GMT References: Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 22 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Okay folks, Although this has been more interesting than most issues that have been discussed here lately in a.a.v, IT IS TIME ONCE AGAIN TO GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT. STTG & STDS9 have their own newsgroup called rec.arts.startrek.current----GO THERE!!!! NUFF SAID;-| Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13597 alt.alien.visitors:12710 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Don Allen Message-ID: <8873.1164@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 15 Jan 93 18:41:55 GMT References: <73324@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp> <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA Lines: 38 In article <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> mdl@oscar.bellcore.com (Michael Lynch) writes: >In article <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: > > [text deleted] >|> >|> Sheesh..why do I bother reading this newsgroup? >|> > > >Don't stop!! You and a few others are the only reason I still subscribe >to this group. Your posts are sane and informative, and always interesting. >I appreciate the time and trouble you must go to to post some of the >lengthy articles I've seen here lately. > >I use xrn to read the news, and the poster's name is shown next to the >article title in the previewer. I weed out most of the garbage here by >simply homing in on your name and a few others. > > >Mike Lynch >mdl@oscar.bellcore.com I agree......DON ALLEN...PLEASE DO NOT STOP POSTING TO THIS NEWSGROUP. It has been months since eyou and I spoke one on one.......I sincerely hope you contact me. Your database is by far the most extensive and complete database on UFOs and ETs the world over. If you poeple think I am bs'ing here...try 400 Megabytes of information!!!! Please keep on posting Don...and to hell with the flamers!!!! ;^) Sincerely..your Bud! -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: <8874.14255@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 15 Jan 93 18:47:36 GMT References: Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Lines: 58 In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >I've been reading this newsgroup for a while now and would like to introduce >some form of debate for readers to pick up on (JW excluded). > >1) Having read a number of books on the UFO phenomenon, I have frequently come >accross cattle mutilations. This is when cattle have parts of their bodies cut >out very precisely and all their blood drained out of them. When scientists >examined these mutilated bodies, not a single trace of blood was found either in >the body or on the ground around the body. What I want to know is it possible to >recreate this effect on earth? > Of Course! The gvt has had surgical laser technology for a good number of years. It is ONLY in the past 5 years or so that it has been allowed to filter down to the civillian level. >2) Crop circles. All are hoaxes. Speaking as a hoaxer myself, I've found that >the "experts" cannot tell a natural circle from a manmade one, so any research >would be pointless. Ahhhh...i see here. You are a quitter! You obviously have read nothing produced by Colin Andrews who is a world reknown researcher in this phenomena. Because you never heard of him does not invalidate the man's credentials! > >3) Alien races. There are alien races, but how people on earth got their names >is a mystery to me. "Greys" are another matter since some respected UFOlogists >claim to have seen them (Tim Good, Bob Oeschler to name but two). I mean, the >Centaurians from Alpha Centauri, I ask you! (For those that don't know, AC is a >star, not a planet). So...you think that the name "Earthlings" sounds sophisticated? NASA designates all planets in any system by their star + orbital position.ergo...Reticulum3 = third planet from Zeta reticulum...or SOL3 = third planet from our sun designated as SOL. I suppose we can also be called Solarians! Dont let the terminlogy get in the way of understanding the research. Words are an arbitrary point of reference to provide clarity for the reader..that's all. Len > >4) JW isn't mad, just a disinformer. Maybe yes...maybe no.... > >Thankyou. > > >The Cursor. -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston Message-ID: <8883.27620@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 19 Jan 93 00:18:48 GMT References: <8805.16236@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA Lines: 50 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > >>>BUT!!! I fully defend John's First Amendment Right to speak his >>>piece as he pleases. > > The First Amendment is not an issue here. There is nothing > about the First Amendment that that requires that anyone > provide a *forum* for someone's opinions. Neither Usenet > nor anyone else is obligated to allow John to post his > views. He's free to publish his own newspaper and the > government cannot censor him. he's free to get up on his > soapbox in the city park, (etc). That's the extent of > it. > > >---peter Peter...this is poppycock!!!!! As long as John or any poster maintains their postings within the realm of reasonable civility...most companies couldn't even care less never mind police the damned net! Usenet is not run by a business...it is not owned by anyone. It is raw anarchy. And as long as John pleases his employer with quality work that meest all deadlines why should his employer give a damn? Answer is...his employer DOESN'T give a damn. And rightfully so.......I dont particularly like seeing any of the groups become a forum for ego massgae either but so be it Peter....YOU are the one being played for fool here.......no offense meant by me....don't you know how to use the kill function????? If not..can you access a man page on the news reader you use? There are ways of ensuring that specific posters or subjects NEVER show up on your screen....why dont you do that instead of sitting here pissing and moaning like a spoiled child? Len DISCLAIMER: SO I'm not diplomatic..at least I cut to the quick and get it over with! -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13599 alt.alien.visitors:12713 sci.skeptic:37154 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csisun!jriley From: jriley@csisun.uucp (John Riley) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Organization: CompuSci, Inc References: <1993Jan18.060908.17382@timesink.chi.il.us> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 19:40:27 GMT Lines: 2 More goo, please.... Oliver Twisted Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NICAP?? Does it still exist? Message-ID: Date: 19 Jan 93 20:54:50 GMT References: Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 9 cee1@ra.msstate.edu (Charles Evans) writes: Does this group still exist? ANyone have an address? ... nope, alas. Both it and APRO bit the dust quite a few years ago. As I recall, their files are kept by CUFOS. (That and MUFON are the two "big" UFO groups in the US these days.) Charles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13604 alt.alien.visitors:12715 sci.skeptic:37156 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!netnews.srv.cs.cmu.edu!gerry From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Date: 19 Jan 93 17:24:26 GMT Article-I.D.: onion.GERRY.93Jan19122426 References: Sender: news@cs.cmu.edu (Usenet News System) Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU Lines: 38 In-Reply-To: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com's message of Mon, 18 Jan 1993 20:28:51 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: onion.frc.ri.cmu.edu In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >People like Peter need to learn how to live. You call passively watching OTHER people doing things "living"? You call _______ "living" - watching people blow air through tuned brass orifices - reading words printed on paper - walking in the woods - etc You should get the point. Life is to enjoy. There are many ways of doing this, some prefer sedentary (sp?) activities, others prefer more active life styles. Most prefer a mix of the two. However, to catagorically write off a mode of entertainment, such as tv, is down right stupid. No human endeavor is perfect, they all have good and bad. Some may claim (and I am the first to do so), that certain forms have a lower ratio of good to bad, but this just requires developing a better discrimination filter. In terms of TV, my filter runs something like this: If it has a laugh track, don't waste your time. Shows I like include Silk Stalkings, Dangerous Curves and ST:TNG. I think my favorite show of all times, though, was Sledge Hammer. Since the show was a comedy with out a laugh track, not enough people understood the humor, so it quickly died. -- Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu) | In the first place it is to be remembered Field Robotics Center, | that the general government is not to be Carnegie Mellon University | charged with the whole power of making and Pittsburgh, PA, 15213 | administering laws. Its jurisdiction is (412) 268-3856 | limited to certain enumerated objects... | James Madison The opinions expressed are mine | and do not reflect the official | position of CMU, FRC, RedZone, | or any other organization. | Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13605 alt.alien.visitors:12716 sci.skeptic:37157 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!psci10.polisci.umn.edu!serb From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: psci10.polisci.umn.edu Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota References: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 22:10:56 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Okay folks, >Although this has been more interesting than most issues that have been >discussed here lately in a.a.v, IT IS TIME ONCE AGAIN TO GET BACK TO THE >SUBJECT. >STTG & STDS9 have their own newsgroup called >rec.arts.startrek.current----GO THERE!!!! >NUFF SAID;-| I disagree. The themes being dealt with in these postings relate to the newsgroups being posted to (some more than others, obviously). Diversity of subject matter is a part of this whole thing, you can skip over what you do not want to read. So I will post where I want to post, regardless of your rather rude response. So there. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 23:22:54 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 36 In article asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk writes: >>(Incredibly, the Army is sticking to its weather balloon >>story, even though nobody believes it anymore.) > >How does the army reconcile the secrecy surrounding the salvaging operation >and the subsequent threats made to civilians with the explanation that it was >just a weather balloon ? Why is the Army required to even answer such questions? Look, for those of you who just arrived on this planet, or think you did, let me explain something: THE MILITARY DOES LOTS OF THINGS IN SECRET. This has been true for years, in many countries and many branches of the service. It's called "national security". I have no problem with this and I see no reason why they should waste their time and my tax money answering questions or explaining things to every flake who comes down the road with some fuzzy, grainy pictures of something that might not be a weather balloon. If you have some evidence of anything extraterrestrial going on at Roswell or anywhere else then let's see it. Don't expect everybody to do your work for you! Talk is cheap and Occam's razor says if there is anything secret going on at a military base it's more likely to be a military secret than an alien spaceship. ---peter Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13607 alt.alien.visitors:12718 sci.skeptic:37159 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!sctc.com!beede From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan19.221724.15485@sctc.com> Organization: SCTC References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 22:17:24 GMT Lines: 19 >People who say that they dont watch tv at all are idiots. This is a new tack in this old argument. In fact, it gives me inspiration for a few more: People that can read are illiterate! Math professors can't count! People that don't eat raw rats are not gourmets! Mike -- Mike Beede Secure Computing beede@sctc.com 1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100 ------------------ Arden Hills, MN 55112 (612) 482-7420 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13608 alt.alien.visitors:12719 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!gatech!concert!uvaarpa!vger.nsu.edu!j_manes From: j_manes@vger.nsu.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ancient Atomic Blasts. Part 2. Message-ID: <3106.2b5c30ca@vger.nsu.edu> Date: 19 Jan 93 16:48:10 EDT References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <73367@cup.portal.com> Distribution: world Lines: 20 Lord help me, I can't help myself.... In article <73367@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > When a large ziggurat in Babylonia was excavated, it gave the appearance of > having been struck by a terrible fire that had split it down to its > foundation. When will people learn that ziggurat smoking is hazardous to you health???? ------------------------------------- ^ I don't do no drugs, man. ^ Jean Manes ^ I'm hooked on phonics. ^ ^-----------------------------------^ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13609 alt.alien.visitors:12720 sci.skeptic:37163 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 00:02:27 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 94 In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >Well, gee, lighten up a bit. It sounds like you think "the masses are >asses" and that appealing to them is per se beneath what you consider good >communication. It doesn't matter what I think of the masses, it is clear that the NETWORKS think they are! The vocabulary and concepts they use in these shows are aimed at a very modest level. Unfortunately this prevents them from getting into any meaty scientific or philosophical issues, especially in 46 minutes. Moreover their pandering to the forces of political correctness and to the network censors on matters like nudity, language, and violence further limits their range. It's entirely possible that if ST:NG were to treat it's viewers like educated adults they might be surprised. Or maybe not. But we'll never know. >inane late 20th century marketing. Even if you can't see it, I would wish >that you would trust that fact that some very smart and educated people do >see it. And I'm talking about people who are just as well-read as you, if >not more. Plenty of smart and well educated people watch football games and have snowball fights. But they don't try to pass these off as philosophy discussions or physics experiments. >> All I'm saying is that if you want insightful commentary on issues >> there is better to be found on non-TV sources. If you want enter- >> tainment, i.e., action, adventure, drama, pathos, suspense, comedy, >> witty dialogue, etc, you can do better than TV for those things as >> well. > >Define better. Deeper, more complex, more thought-provoking philosophy; funnier humor, more suspenseful suspense ('cause you don't know how it's going to turn out), better production values, wittier dialogue, etc. What did you THINK I meant by "better"? No matter what quality you think a TV show offers, for either intellectual stimulation or "entertainment" I can probably find a book, movie, lecture, or some participatory activity (game, hobby, sport, discussion, etc) that offers better. >of us talked for a long time about the nature of time, relativity, and >psychology. The issues were too complex to go into here, but I guarantee >you that it wasn't a superficial conversation. Good, but this doesn't say anything good about the TV program, the credit goes to you and your friends for being interested in, and knowledgable about, these topics. >and I. I don't mean to sound arrogant with that statement, arrogance begets >arrogance, and you sound pretty snobby. I *am*. For all the occasional discussions, above, that may be stimulated by TV, the overall effect of TV, IMNSHO, is a vast "dumbing down" of America. >> In other words 60's TV wasn't as politically correct. > >In other words, 60's TV represented a lot of bigotry and intolerance in >society that TV was not allowed to confront. If this was the case, it *chose* not to. Note also that musicals like _South Pacific_ were confronting issues like bigotry in 1956. But today TV's choices are just as artificial; whereas in 1960 the only black faces TV showed were train porters or cooks, today TV goes out of it's way to ensure that every group of people: every office scene, starship crew, classroom, etc, is carefully populated with as much ethnic and gender diversity as they can manage, always making sure that women are given non-stereotyped roles for females (security officers) and blacks are given non-stereotyped roles for blacks (scientists, engineers, etc). This is not an improvement, it's just more artifice. And it provides the viewer with the false sense of satisfaction that he, or TV, is confronting these issues. I've literally heard people say things like, "I'm not racist, I watch the Bill Cosby show". ---peter Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12721 alt.religion.kibology:5854 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!telesoft!hamid From: hamid@telesoft.com (Hamid Radvar @lone) Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: <1993Jan19.231111.8566@telesoft.com> Organization: Alsys Group, San Diego, CA, USA References: <9301190909.AA12202@hick.asd.contel.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 23:11:11 GMT Lines: 11 >Ferengi is (?Urdu?) for foreigner, and is used all over India to describe >foreign materials brought in by the Europeans. In Farsi, the language spoken in Iran, 'farangi' means foreign. Of course, Farsi is also the language of Afghanistan, but I'm not sure if they also have this word. Hamid Radvar Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12722 alt.religion.kibology:5855 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 00:11:58 GMT Lines: 20 In article clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) writes: >Joerg Loehn writes: >> >> Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. >> Please give me some Information on him... > >I can't believe there's still somebody who doesn't know who is Kibo. > >Only somebody just arrived from outer space wouldn't know that. Maybe >Kibo can find a few seconds in his busy schedule and wear his Spokesman >for Earth hat? I just got a V.32 modem and boy are my arms tired from trying to type fast enough. I'll let someone else explain who or what Kibo is or was. And besides, I want to know too. BTW, does anyone have the 57600 question purity test? -- K. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Not another one! Message-ID: Date: 19 Jan 93 13:45:30 GMT Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 11 Nntp-Posting-Host: ure.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] First we had John Winston, King of the BS, he's still here and is now joined by Jack Sarfatti. Why is he writing in stuff about Star Fleet for? Either he's sending in stuff to the wrong group or has caught Winstonitus - the illness which makes people write complete and utter bullshit. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13610 alt.alien.visitors:12724 sci.skeptic:37166 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!emory!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bx711 From: bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Date: 20 Jan 1993 02:14:50 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1jicirINN7al@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > ...Granted, Star Trek may be intellectually > stimulating compared to, say, Monday Night Football, or intellectually > stimulating if you have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece > of lawn furniture. But that's as far as it goes. > > I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because > the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, > masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) > when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. So you quit watching "lowbrow" shows enjoyed by people who are not "very well-read" and who "have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece of lawn furniture", and decided to engage in more intellectually stimulating pursuits, like reading Usenet newsgroups. Big step up there, Peter. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Subject: Mr Sarfatti I presume Message-ID: <1993Jan19.171011.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Lines: 9 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 21:10:11 GMT Hello? Mr Sarfatti? I would very much like to discuss some theorectical ideas my universty resaerch club is working on. Would you please contact me on my E mail account ? Its asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Thank you Lynn Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!cs.widener.edu!dsinc!satalink!mark.stephenson From: mark.stephenson@satalink.com (Mark Stephenson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: HELLO! Message-ID: <8140.1028.uupcb@satalink.com> Date: 19 Jan 93 21:59:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434 Reply-To: mark.stephenson@satalink.com (Mark Stephenson) Lines: 7 This is to say "Hello" to the people on (1028) Alien Visitors. I have a great deal of interest in the abduction phenomenon. Specifically, I am looking for people who have read "Secret Lives" by Dave Jacobs. Further, I am looking to chat with people who want to share abduction experiences. If you are equally interested in these topics - or others related to these, please drop me a line. Best wishes, Mark Stephenson. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu Organization: Indiana University Cyclotron Facility, Bloomington, Indiana References: Distribution: world Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 04:50:25 GMT Lines: 54 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes... >In article asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk writes: > >>>(Incredibly, the Army is sticking to its weather balloon >>>story, even though nobody believes it anymore.) >> >>How does the army reconcile the secrecy surrounding the salvaging operation >>and the subsequent threats made to civilians with the explanation that it was >>just a weather balloon ? > > Why is the Army required to even answer such questions? > > Look, for those of you who just arrived on this planet, or > think you did, let me explain something: THE MILITARY > DOES LOTS OF THINGS IN SECRET. This has been true for > years, in many countries and many branches of the service. > It's called "national security". I have no problem with > this and I see no reason why they should waste their time > and my tax money answering questions or explaining things > to every flake who comes down the road with some fuzzy, > grainy pictures of something that might not be a weather > balloon. > > If you have some evidence of anything extraterrestrial > going on at Roswell or anywhere else then let's see it. > Don't expect everybody to do your work for you! Talk > is cheap and Occam's razor says if there is anything secret > going on at a military base it's more likely to be a > military secret than an alien spaceship. > > >---peter I don't think anyone would argue that the military does lots of things that are secret. But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked. A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon. B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy? BTW: This is one of the classical, unanswered questions in the Roswell case. Jim Graham -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <- Neither do they speak for me. ______________________________________________________________________ | Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu | | dolmen!jgraham@moose.cs.indiana.edu | | BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) | | (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. | |______________________________________________________________________| Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Organization: AT&T Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 05:15:39 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan20.051539.14101@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Lines: 11 In article <614.79204@tron.gun.de>, locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) writes: > \JOHN_-_\WINSTON%CUP.PORTAL.COM@USENET schrieb am 15.01.93 um 10:05: > \P> Keep it up. > \P> John Winston. > > Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. > Please give me some Information on him... > Kibo used to be a Nerd in Junior High School who thought Star Trek was real? Now he knows it's just a tv show! Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12729 alt.religion.kibology:5865 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!bgsuvax!jkiley From: jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh. References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 05:47:45 GMT Lines: 13 kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >BTW, does anyone have the 57600 question purity test? It's about two-thirds of the way down your .sig, Kibo. Right under the line that begins 'Below is a 57600 question purity test, and it doesn't even take up a quarter of this .sig'. Apology accepted, what with having to convince McDonalds to cater the inaugural ball on such short notice. > -- K. Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5866 alt.alien.visitors:12730 alt.conspiracy:22074 Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Ferengi. Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1993Jan15.175351.21658@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <1993Jan19.071024.19726@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 05:42:29 GMT Lines: 16 In article mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Matt McIrvin) writes: >payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: > >>As a result of >>the speach, that usenet authorities have promised to kill the accounts of >>anybody who tells kibO the green golfball joke. Use extreme caution. > >Kibo-- I hope it's not too late, you being inaugurated tomorrow and all-- >can I head the Men In Black? Suppressing UFO investigators is a hobby >of mine, and I love those Ray-Bans. Actually, under my Politically Perfect regime, they are the "Persons In Color". However, you may head them. -- K. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12731 alt.religion.kibology:5868 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? IN BED Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <614.79204@tron.gun.de> <1993Jan20.051539.14101@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 05:48:01 GMT Lines: 19 [alt.alien.visitors] In article <1993Jan20.051539.14101@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >In article <614.79204@tron.gun.de>, locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn) writes: >> \JOHN_-_\WINSTON%CUP.PORTAL.COM@USENET schrieb am 15.01.93 um 10:05: >> \P> Keep it up. >> \P> John Winston. >> >> Who is Kibo? I asked about him some time ago, but there's still no answer. >> Please give me some Information on him... >> >Kibo used to be a Nerd in Junior High School who thought Star >Trek was real? Now he knows it's just a tv show! No, no. I thought "Blake's 7" was real. I thought "Star Trek" was a small brown bear covered with Deviled Spam. And I still think that alt.alien.visitors is like a giant sink swirling down the drain of a much bigger giant sink while a small penguin whines, "Radio! Radio!" -- K. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!ford.ecn.purdue.edu!unglenie From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan20.070944.23587@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 07:09:44 GMT Lines: 20 graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >I don't think anyone would argue that the military does lots of things >that are secret. > >But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked. > >A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon. >B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy? Let's say they were testing MANNED balloons as a recon platform or to set an altitude record and something went wrong and the crew was killed. It would be very embarrassing public relations-wise if this go out. This sounds like a plausible reason for secrecy. Rob U -- - Rob Unglenieks REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES - - "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no - - native criminal class except Congress." [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] - - (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton. Will Engineer For Food) - Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!aun.uninett.no!news.uit.no!hsn30_27.hsn.no!jas From: jas@stud.hsn.no (JOHN-ARILD STRM) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Help find adress. Message-ID: Date: 20 Jan 93 08:01:55 GMT Sender: news@news.uit.no (USENET News System) Organization: Nordland College Lines: 3 Can someone find me the adresses to High-Schools in Kentucky. My sister goes to school at one of them and I like to talk to her. I can use Email, netnews and telnet. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan20.093942.26631@crc.ac.uk> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK References: <1993Jan19.110625.15855@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 09:39:42 GMT Lines: 21 In article <1993Jan19.110625.15855@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za>, wayne@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Wayne Smith) writes: > Concerning this case: with all the apparent debris lying around, and all the people who were supposed to have been at or near the site, why isn't it that someone kept some of the strange material as a keepsake? And if someone did keep some of it what woul> d happen if they went public with it?? > > Cheers, > Wayne I believe in a recent radio interview he did in (?)Denver, Kevin Randle (co-author of the book Crash at Roswell) stated that he had handled small pieces of wreckage which it was claimed had come from the Roswell incident. I think the interview was connected with a lecture Kevin was giving for MICAP in Denver. Perhaps Mike Corbin, a regular contributor to a.a.v and head of MICAP will be able to confirm (or otherwise) my memories. Steve -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.univie.ac.at!scsing.switch.ch!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan20.100852.10600@ntb.ch> Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (Mr. Usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 10:08:52 GMT Lines: 37 Roswell. Hello. I've just dug out my old video about the Roswell event. The argument against ETs is that it was a "weather balloon". Well, there's nothing special about a weather balloon, but, of course, none of these balloons is ever alone, they are all carrying something. Nobody sends up a bolloon by itself, and this is the interesting part of the story. What was the Roswell balloon originally carrying? In my video, the debunkers say that it was a "radar corner reflector". There's a picture of it on the video (looks genuine, very old). Of course, they presumably don't use them now. There are four or five balloons, and they're holding the "radar corner reflector". The reflector is big and longish, seems to be about 5-10 metres long, I guess, and seems to be made of very thin metal. There are "panels" of this metal which are roughly square, and the shape seems to be such that radar would reflect however the reflector was angled. (like a horisontal cross) The metal really has to be very light and strong for these balloons to hold it (and they are doing). The argument against anything "strange" seems to be that 1) The development of radar itself was a secret undertaking. 2) The shape of the reflector (and being able to use something like this at all in a test) was secret. 3) The special metal alloy used was secret. It was very thin, very light, and very strong. It was, of course, extremely important that samples of the metal didn't get into enemy hands. (Don't ask me what it was!) If it weren't for all the witnesses, this would actually be quite a strong case. (Don't flame me, I'm just answering Jim's question!) Cheers, Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:37182 alt.alien.visitors:12736 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: Erich von Daeniken has a new TV show in Germany Message-ID: <1993Jan20.112331.9283@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1993Jan16.203356.29269@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1jd003INN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 11:23:31 GMT Lines: 30 In article <1jd003INN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au>, petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) writes: >In article <1993Jan16.203356.29269@rhrk.uni-kl.de>, kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) says: > >>3) they'll come back. EvD says it would be not serious (right word?) to >> speculate about when this could be. > >(right word?), I do not know ! It depends on what you are trying to say. >Try putting in brackets a few other words you think might be similar. If I knew any, I'd have used them instead... I mean "serious" as in "serious reasearcher". EvD is worrying about his reputation, he doesn't want to speculate. Yes, I'm smiling... >>Astronomer Carl Sagan, who was misquoted in one of the first EvD books: >>"The most friendly thing I can say about him is that he ignores archaeological >>science. Every time he sees a thing he doesn't understand he attributes it to >>extraterrestrial beings, and since he does understand almost nothing, he sees >>the evidence for extraterrestrial beings everywhere on this planet." >>(translated from English to German and back) > >Did Carl Sagan say this about EvD, or did EvD say this about Carl Sagan? >ie:Does the text above describe Carl Sagan, or EvD? Sagan said that about EvD. Sorry for not being clear. -- thomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany Philosophy is the art of drawing conclusions from definitions that have been chosen so that one can draw the conclusions one would like to get. It immediately follows that philosophy is silly. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ParaNet UFO Continuum Radio Show Message-ID: <142015.2B5CFD30@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 20 Jan 93 06:16:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 14:54:56 GMT References: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 21 In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >In article <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >>Although this has been more interesting than most issues that have been >>discussed here lately in a.a.v, IT IS TIME ONCE AGAIN TO GET BACK TO THE >>SUBJECT. > >>STTG & STDS9 have their own newsgroup called >>rec.arts.startrek.current----GO THERE!!!! I agree. Discussions about Star Trek or the value of TV have little relationship to alt.alien.visitors or sci.skeptic. So how come when I post a comment on TV I get a mailbag of response, but when I post comments on cattle-mutilations, virus mutations, or Duesberg's wacko HIV-doesn't-cause-AIDS theory, which woulkd seem to be more relevant, I get hardly any responses?! ---peter Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13613 alt.alien.visitors:12739 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Cause of it. Message-ID: <73947@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 21:28:48 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 50 Subject: Cause of Nuclear Type Blasts. In the past we have talked about places where it appears that there have been blasts which destroyed certain areas. I will not put down a possible cause of some of those blasts. This is a space person talking..... The Satonians, a race of space people evolved on a negative plane of existence, arrived upon your planet and usurped the controls of government and science. Their infiltration had been stealthy and passed unxnoticed. They called themselves Atlans. War between Atlantis and Lemurian came about after intoleratble conditions. We of the Confederation, who had visited your planet and entered into trade with these two races, observed with growing alarm the frightening conditions. Powerless, as we were to intervene because of the Galactic Pax regulations concerning our intervention in any planet's affairs; we, nontheless, petitioned the Saturn Tribunal, our law guardian for this sector of space, that we might be of service to the people of earth. As the Tribunal's emissaries witnessed the unleashing of horrific powers of destruction wielded by the Atlans against the Lemurians, a consent for evacuation of the forces of "Light" and truth from earth was ordered, since the earth's peoples had not initiated this strife. At once, the Seven Cities of Shan, each capable of caring for 10,000 people, were moored outside your solar system. Their transport craft landed upon you surface. Those people of the Atlanteans and Lemurians, who held the principles of "Light" and Love, were removed by our craft to Venus and thence to other areas of Confederation controlled space. The Satonians, furious by this action of ours, ordered the immediate destruction of both continents. Then, after turning the forces of the dreaded hydrogen vril rays from their nuclear blasts upon the earth's greatest civilizations, left in their craft and returned to their own galaxtic system beyond the constellation of Orion. The remains of earth's warring factions, left in the wake of the destruction which sank both continents, wandered to the land area you now call South America and established the ancient civilizations you call the Inca; meaning in our solar tongue "the lonely ones." Perhaps, my friends, you who have vision can see the drama of the past attempting to take place again in your present time. We, however, shall not let this take place. The time is drawing near when once again we, your brothers, shall greet you. A reunion many of us have waited for. Source of Material; Star Wards, by Richard Miller. This is me JW speaking now. I'm about ready for them to make themselves know, aren't you? "Litght" answs ,(x{xxg xxB x`xxqxsxux ,< 0Roman 10cpi dreded hydrogenx vril rays froxm their xnuclear lasts uponx the earth' greatest civilizaionxsx, left ixn the Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13614 alt.alien.visitors:12740 alt.religion.kibology:5877 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: I'm back. Message-ID: <73949@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 21:35:47 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Everbody: I just got back on the Net. It's sort of like the sign they had out in front of the psychic's convention that said, "Cancelled due to unforseen difficulties. I'll catch up with you people later. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13616 alt.alien.visitors:12741 sci.skeptic:37189 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ppontis.oit.iupui.edu!IPAP400 From: IPAP400@indyvax.iupui.edu (Pat Pontis) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. References: Sender: nobody@ctr.columbia.edu Organization: Integrated Technologies IUPUI Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 15:04:25 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Posted-From: ppontis.oit.iupui.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu In article gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: >From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) >Dangerous Curves and ST:TNG. I think my favorite show of all times, >though, was Sledge Hammer. Since the show was a comedy with out a >laugh track, not enough people understood the humor, so it quickly died. > Your right. I normally don't care for most of what is on TV, but Sledge had something. Perhaps it was his unconditional love of his gun. Didn't notice the lack of music on Sledge, but the new program with Linda Hunt, Space Rangers (I think), can loose the annoying background music as soon as possible. It may be my TV. Anyone else having this problem?? Pat Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13617 alt.alien.visitors:12742 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Rama 3. Message-ID: <73950@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 21:40:05 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 81 1>+%''''' (Subject: Rama. Part 3. This is a contiuation of the information about David coming in contact with a person form another planet down in South American. Rama predicted that David would be put in prison and he was. So here we go again; ....."Where do you come from?" I asked. "We're from a galaxy not too far from here," he said. He opened a scroll and I could see an oval map with many kinds of dots on it. He pointed at a group of stars, which he indentified as the constellation of Taro, Star Alcyone, the Pleiades. He located our own sun, then he showed me his home planet on the map, which appeared to be nothing more than a bunch of dots to me. He told me they had bases on Mars and Venus. "What about here on Earth?" I asked. "Not our bases, but UFO bases that all of us are cooperatively keeping here on Earth. It's our mission as peaceful intelligences to maintain the balance of the universe. With our terrestial bases, we can keep an eye on you. "In a few minutes, wer're going to see one of the bases here in South America, but first you must tell Rama where you want your car." I turned to Rama who was observing my reactions, and told her I was supposed to go to a city called Trujillo and another called Chiclayo, both located on the northern coast of Peru, 500 miles north of Lima. Somehow they hooked the VW up to the UFO. I could see it on the screen. The thought hit me, what would the car rental company think if they knew that one of their cars made the 800 mile trip to Chiclayo in about nine minutes. When we were ready for take off, Rama exchanged some information with the crew leader, then I was placed between them. "This machine is operated through reversible electromagnetism. "she explained. "See those columns going to that rotor that looks like transparent plastic?" "Yes," I said, nodding. "Well, those are reactors. When the mercury in that rotor gets going at full speed, we can reverse the magnetic and electrical enregy. That way we can control matter and also overcome the forces of gravity." When we took off, I felt a great force pulling my face muscles back. Even my arms and shoulders were pushed flat against the chair. Rama told me not to worry because that was due only to the great speed we were experiencing. We hovered for a while over an old road that led to the Panamerican Highway, near a little town not far from the city of Chiclayo. I didn't get out of the aircraft. The crew unloaded the VW, and Rama said we would leave it there for an hour or two. Later she and I would come back in a vimana, which was a smaller craft enough for two or three people. We ascended again, but at a lesser speed, flying over the Andes Mountains, once more at an extreme altitude. I could see some commercial jetliners way below us as tiny specks of light, their surfaces and expanded wings reflecting the sun. As we decended gradually, I saw in the distance a great expanse of water, Rama said it was the Titicaca Lake and that we would be entering it. My eyes opened wide as I saw the lake approaching. I was expecting some kind of crash or a marked change as we penetrated the surface tension of the water, but it was a smooth entry, nothing resembling a crash. We traveled underwater, the UFO navigating like a sophisticated submarine, until we came to a UFO base under the lake, which was like a whole city. The crew leader said this was the base that Rama had told me about when I first met her. Suddexnly we were in the air again. The only sensation I felt during this traxnsition was a slight change in density. As we flew through the clouds, I saw ice covered mountains in the distance. I recognized them as the icy peaks found about 25 miles from Huancayo and saw the Mantaro Valley with its river slicig through the center of it. We landed close to the ice peaks, where Rama's vemana was waiting for us. I thanked the crew leader for the tour. He said we would see each other again in a few days. Rama and I flew to Chiclayo then, in a vimana that had been left hidden behind some sand hills. When we returned to where the car had been left earlier, I was still in a daze. It was hard to believe I had flown in two UFOs. It had been the experience of my life. End Part 3 This is me JW speaking now. Have you had you UFO ride today? John Winston. . He located our own sun, then he showed me his home planet on the map, which appeared to be nothing more than a buncw x?xgxKxUx'xx x'x Cx[xMx4 x%x|x'x1x>x<>|xx xgxKxUx 'xx x'xCx[xMx4 x%x|x'x1x>x< 0Roman 10cpiAmerica, but first you must tell Rama where you want your car." I turned to Rama who was observing my reac Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13618 alt.alien.visitors:12743 sci.skeptic:37190 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Here I am again. Message-ID: <73951@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 21:50:20 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: My computer konked out for a few days but I'll catch up with you people later. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!master.cs.rose-hulman.edu!master.cs.rose-hulman.edu!news From: stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Date: 20 Jan 1993 15:35:50 GMT Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> References: Reply-To: stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) NNTP-Posting-Host: o233-14.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu Didn't we hear a while back about the guys who supposedly created all these things as a joke and then video taped how they did it? Are crop circles still actually believed to be made by aliens (I thought the guys had enough proof otherwise)? Just asking..... -- Kevin T. Stiner |"..because happiness is not stinerkt@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu |an ideal of reason but of AMIGA 4000 Serial No. 000403 |imagination." NeXT mail encouraged!! | --IMMANUEL KANT Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1993Jan20.070944.23587@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: 20 Jan 93 15:23:53 GMT Lines: 77 unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes: >graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >>But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked. >> >>A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon. >>B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy? >Let's say they were testing MANNED balloons as a recon platform or to set >an altitude record and something went wrong and the crew was killed. It >would be very embarrassing public relations-wise if this go out. This sounds >like a plausible reason for secrecy. NO. Too many similar incidents have occurred and been made public in far shorter periods of time. The early crashes in the F117A program have been made public, including the associated deaths of their pilots. This took only about 10 years, perhaps a hair more, to become public knowledge. The US floated "weather balloons" over the USSR to gain recon information. Most of them were shot down. This has been public knowledge for years. The #2 XB70 crashed as the result of a stupid GE-sponsored publicity stunt. While that was NOT a black program, it sure as hell was an embarrassment to the USAF et al. That was out the same day it happened. Even the CIA's early Blackbirds, the A12, is public knowledge and after "only" about 25 years. Likewise with the SR71. The balloon thing really just does NOT hold water. Regardless of just WHAT was being covered up, the type of balloon shown and other "facts" do not fit what actually happened. Doesn't mattter if it had ANYTHING to do with aliens! Somebody was covering SOMETHING up. The evidence and testimony *strongly* suggests that material in crates was packed out and shipped elsewhere, most likely to Wright-Pat. Even if you want to play it safe and say NO little bodies, just hardware, the flight logs and the people exist(ed). Stuff WAS crated away. And yet, this all started in July of 1947! We're talking 40+ years of probable cover-up of SOMETHING. Even WW2 secrets like ULTRA and ENIGMA et al have been outed, and these were some of the most super heavy-duty secrets of that time. If what happened at Roswell is so important that it is STILL being covered up, then it MUST make other secrets of its era (mid-forties) absolutely PALE by comparison. So many other formerly secret things have come out where Roswell has NOT, that we must think that there is something to it. Like I said, even if it has NOTHING to do with flying saucers, aliens, or anything else extraterrestrial, it must have been mighty damn important for USAF and the DOD to do the things they did and to STILL keep this turkey under wraps. If you want to make cases, just start thinking about what kind of things would be kept secret for THAT long and then start eliminating the categories that have already been publically outed and you find you aren't left with much. Possibilities - airplane with some nuclear device in which there was some sort of "accident"? Maybe although certain other conditions don't fit that scenario too well. Too many highranking people poking around the scene unshielded from potential radiation leaks - by 1947 the effects of said radiation were pretty well known. The world had two samples to look at...... Secret aircraft tests? Maybe, but why do it over someones ranch or as near to populated areas when you had Muroc (now Edwards AFB) in California, a much more isolated site in those days? Must have been mighty important..... Duane Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13619 alt.alien.visitors:12746 sci.skeptic:37191 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 15:57:36 GMT References: <73645@cup.portal.com> <1jicirINN7al@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 69 In article <1jicirINN7al@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook) writes: > >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > >> ...Granted, Star Trek may be intellectually >> stimulating compared to, say, Monday Night Football, or intellectually >> stimulating if you have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece >> of lawn furniture. But that's as far as it goes. >> >> I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because >> the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, >> masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) >> when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. > >So you quit watching "lowbrow" shows enjoyed by people who are not "very >well-read" and who "have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece of >lawn furniture", and decided to engage in more intellectually stimulating >pursuits, like reading Usenet newsgroups. Big step up there, Peter. I didn't want to shock my system by making too big a leap. But there is one key difference between TV and Usenet, even if the intellectual level isn't very different (a debatable prop- osition). Usenet is interactive. In addition to its other shortcomings TV is very passive. Even reading a book requires more input from the user because the author can only hint at what things look like or sound like -- the reader has to fill in the details. Sometimes my wife and I like to play a little game where we take some scene from a book that we've both read and describe in detail features about a character or a setting that the author DIDN'T describe, and see how similar our descriptions are. The TV networks make insultingly low assumptions about their viewers. Recently I was reading an article in Scientific American. I don't even remember what it was about, but I remember thinking, "Isn't it nice that the authors can use these terms and these (mathematical) expressions and not have to take time out to *EXPLAIN* them?" Scientific American is for LAY readers -- the authors of the articles have already published their research in peer-reviewed journals and now they're just writing for the rest of us who are not chemists or physicists or biologists, but just want to keep up in general sort of way with those things. Scientific American assumes a general undergraduate college -science level of understanding, that's all. There are probably *millions* of people in the US who can handle it. TV has nothing like this. The closest program is probably PBS's NOVA, and that's probably no better than high-school science. NOVA is constantly interrupting itself to explain the meaning of some term or concept that I think a well-educated person should already understand. This "dumbing down" has serious implications for sci.skeptic and similar newsgroups. Some of us here have been appalled by the gullibility and lack of basic understanding of science displayed by many posters here. Since Americans are voracious TV-watchers, maybe "smarter" TV could help correct it. (he said optimistically) ---peter Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!buffalo From: buffalo@wam.umd.edu (Duncan D. Sterling) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan20.155436.12377@wam.umd.edu> Date: 20 Jan 93 15:54:36 GMT References: <1993Jan20.100852.10600@ntb.ch> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Lines: 25 Nntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu The problem with all this conjecture is very simple. It was in fact the base public affairs officer (the official mouthpiece of the base commander) who first told reporters in Roswell about the "captured saucer".] It wasn't until 2 days later that he contradicted himself, and came up with the weather balloon story. To further complicate matters, Documents obtained through FOIA requests have made specific refererence to the "captured craft". On top of all this, if it really had been a weather balloon, and the inci- dent had really been classified because of radar involvment, it would have also been declassified a long time ago (by regulation documents are classified for a finite period of time, then declassified after review, or very rarely, reclassified. Generally Top Secret is held up to 25 years before review, Secret for up to 10 years, and confidential up to 2 years.) Let's face it--something very unusuall happened at Rosswell, and we may not find out what it was for a long time, unless some intrepid researcher, or party to the original incident blows its cover. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Duncan Sterling buffalo@wam.umd.edu GT750L, KH500A8, CA175K3 University of Maryland "Yeeehaaa!" - Slim Pickens in "Dr. Strangelove" College Park, Md. "2 strokes are quicker than 4" - anonymous Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!buffalo From: buffalo@wam.umd.edu (Duncan D. Sterling) Subject: Re: The "New Fizziks" Message-ID: <1993Jan20.161702.13705@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 16:17:02 GMT Lines: 38 In article kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) writes: > > I was recently fumbling through our "extensive" (yah, right) library >here at the university, and encountered a strange book by Bob Tobin, >featuring ideas by Fred Wolf and our friend Jack Sarfatti. > It is called "Space-Time and beyond", and it looks (and reads) much >like a kiddie book. In it, a cornucopia of wierd "facts" and "theories" are >presented, all about this "new physics" we've been hearing about here >recently. THis book attempts to explain everything from telepathy to >healing and levitation, all through "explanations" in physics. Actually, >the explanations are about one page long each, and hardly convincing in the >least, as they just present a potpourri of quotes pulled out of context from >various important physicists like Einstein, astronomers like James Jeans and >others. > > I wouldn't recommend anyone get this book unless they are into the >New Age, 'cause it reads like one of those flakey manuals of that movement. > However, take it as you will, these ideas ARE interesting, if >amusing... > Yes, it may appear simplistic, and a bit child-like, but let's look at it within the right context: the book is not aimed at scientists, but at absolutely-know-nothing lay people, who may not even grasp the most basic knowledge of math and physics theory. If we want to see the cause of science advance (particularly front line theoretical physics research), the public (read that "taxpayers") must believe there's "something in it for them". This sort of book is, whether we like it or not, one of the best ways to raise the conciousnesses of the "great unwashed", and ultimately serves us all. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Duncan Sterling buffalo@wam.umd.edu GT750L, KH500A8, CA175K3 University of Maryland "Yeeehaaa!" - Slim Pickens in "Dr. Strangelove" College Park, Md. "2 strokes are quicker than 4" - anonymous Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13620 alt.alien.visitors:12749 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!psgrain!m2xenix!agora!robart From: robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Don Allen Message-ID: Date: 20 Jan 93 13:58:50 GMT References: <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp> <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> Organization: a gora Lines: 6 In article <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes: > >Ask Don about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. _Then_ praise him. Indeed. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13623 alt.alien.visitors:12750 sci.skeptic:37196 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Keywords: In article <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: Message-ID: <1993Jan20.192306.5609@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 20 Jan 93 19:23:06 GMT References: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com >Okay folks, >Although this has been more interesting than most issues that have been >discussed here lately in a.a.v, IT IS TIME ONCE AGAIN TO GET BACK TO THE >SUBJECT. >STTG & STDS9 have their own newsgroup called >rec.arts.startrek.current----GO THERE!!!! >NUFF SAID;-| Scott Erb: >>I disagree. The themes being dealt with in these postings relate to the >>newsgroups being posted to (some more than others, obviously). Diversity of >>subject matter is a part of this whole thing, you can skip over what you do >>not want to read. So I will post where I want to post, regardless of your >>rather rude response. So there. Mr. Erb, The discussion about STDS9 that has occured here in a.a.v has nothing to do with frigging UFOS, Aliens, or anything else that would be deemed appropiate for this forum, furthermore, there are people whom believe that we shouldn't have to wade through all this CRAP to discuss what this newsgroup was intended for. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan20.193526.8581@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 20 Jan 93 19:35:26 GMT References: Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 38 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Peter Nelson: >>If you have some evidence of anything extraterrestrial >> going on at Roswell or anywhere else then let's see it. >> Don't expect everybody to do your work for you! Talk >> is cheap and Occam's razor says if there is anything secret >> going on at a military base it's more likely to be a >> military secret than an alien spaceship. Peter, Regardless of what occured at Roswell, it disturbs me with all the evidence pointing towards something very unusual occuring that hot July night back in 47' that you can just sheepishly be fed a load of crud & like it. There is a plethora of evidence supporting that something did happen that night, & it appeared not to be of this world. If my hard earned tax dollars are being spent to cover this thing up, I for one want to know about it. If you condone this form of activity, then you deserve exactly what they feed you. The National Security veil is the most abused peace of legislation that there is involving UFOs & anything else they want to hide. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan20.194117.8955@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 20 Jan 93 19:41:17 GMT References: <1993Jan20.070944.23587@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 35 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >I don't think anyone would argue that the military does lots of things >that are secret. > >But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked. > >A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon. >B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy? >>Let's say they were testing MANNED balloons as a recon platform or to set >>an altitude record and something went wrong and the crew was killed. It >>would be very embarrassing public relations-wise if this go out. This sounds >>like a plausible reason for secrecy. >>Rob U FOR 45 Years.........Oh come on now!!!!!! Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13625 alt.alien.visitors:12753 sci.skeptic:37198 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!psci22.polisci.umn.edu!serb From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Keywords: In article <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: psci22.polisci.umn.edu Organization: University of Minnesota References: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan20.192306.5609@odin.corp.sgi.coOrganization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 19:53:14 GMT Lines: 39 In article <1993Jan20.192306.5609@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Mr. Erb, >The discussion about STDS9 that has occured here in a.a.v has nothing to do >with frigging UFOS, Aliens, or anything else that would be deemed >appropiate for this forum, furthermore, there are people whom believe that >we shouldn't have to wade through all this CRAP to discuss what this >newsgroup was intended for. Although I really don't have much more to say about DS9 or ST:NG on this subject (I think I got my point across in two posts, and I understand Peter' s points), I do want to respond to the above comment because it is, I believe, based on flawed logic. First, Star Trek DOES deal with UFOs and aliens, in that it is an example of how popular culture in the U.S. understands them. This may not be a direct link, but it is A link. Second, it deals with sci.skeptic, for similar reasons. Statements on the net sometimes start conversations that veer from the subject. That's OK. In fact, that's normal. That's how the exchange of ideas operates, and one shouldn't try to straight jacket all communication into a particular person' s definition of what is appropriate. Once a newsgroup is created, it is part of a forum that allows its users to define its purpose. That's democracy, good or bad. You, of course, are always free to express your distaste at how particular conversations are going, and to try to convince others to hold to particular themes. But if people disagree with you, tough luck. It might actually be more effective if you took a more civil approach. Instead of "crap" "NUFF SAID" and such rather childish displays of machoism on the usernet, you could explain what your idea was of the newsgroup, why you think the discussion is inappropriate, and ask politely for people to consider holding the conversation elsewhere or through personal email. Such civility may be contrary to your personality, but you might find that people would be more likely to understand your view and you may convince them to act accordingly. When you sound like a little Hitler trying to say "this is the subject damn it and you better follow my ideas on what we discuss" you come off as petty and there isn't much incentive to do what you want. Regards, Scott Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13626 alt.alien.visitors:12754 sci.skeptic:37200 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!ncar!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Keywords: In article <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: Message-ID: <1993Jan20.195448.17572@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 20 Jan 93 19:54:48 GMT References: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan20.192306.5609@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson Lines: 18 > >Mr. Erb, > >The discussion about STDS9 that has occured here in a.a.v has nothing to do >with frigging UFOS, Aliens, or anything else that would be deemed >appropiate for this forum, furthermore, there are people whom believe that >we shouldn't have to wade through all this CRAP to discuss what this >newsgroup was intended for. > In other words: "Take your crap elsewhere so we can put more of OUR crap on." That's what alt.alien.visitors is, right? -- *************************************************************************** "I was pleased to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know."----- Mark Twain, _Life on the Mississippi_ Jason "corleyj@gas.uug.arizona.edu" Corley Was Here But Isn't Anymore Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 20:26:42 GMT References: <1993Jan12.192557.442@netcom.com> <8883.27620@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 68 In article <8883.27620@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) writes: >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >> >>>>BUT!!! I fully defend John's First Amendment Right to speak his >>>>piece as he pleases. >> >> The First Amendment is not an issue here. There is nothing >> about the First Amendment that that requires that anyone >> provide a *forum* for someone's opinions. Neither Usenet >> nor anyone else is obligated to allow John to post his >> views. He's free to publish his own newspaper and the >> government cannot censor him. he's free to get up on his >> soapbox in the city park, (etc). That's the extent of >> it. >Peter...this is poppycock!!!!! As long as John or any poster >maintains their postings within the realm of reasonable >civility...most companies couldn't even care less never mind >police the damned net! What does this have to do with what I said?! What I said is the the First Amendment doesn't obligate anyone (in- cluding Usenet or any institution on Usenet) to provide Winston with a forum. >It is raw anarchy. And as long as John pleases his employer >with quality work that meest all deadlines why should his >employer give a damn? Answer is...his employer DOESN'T give a >damn. Again, this has nothing to do with what I posted. So if you're going to call my comments "poppycock" the least you could do is justify that description. > ....don't you know how to use >the kill function????? Yes, in fact Winston IS in my kill file. The problem is that that doesn't stop me from having to read RESPONSES to his idiotic drivel, including the drivel itself in ">"'s. >There are ways of ensuring that specific posters or subjects >NEVER show up on your screen It's too much effort to have to update the SUBJECT:'s in my kill file every time he introduces a new one, which he does sometimes several times a day. ....why dont you do that instead >of sitting here pissing and moaning like a spoiled child? They have remedial reading classes for adults, you know. Show us one place where I've pissed and moaned on the subject of Winston. My only comment on him up until this posting was on the First Amendment issue, above. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 20:33:02 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 45 In article graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes... >> >> Look, for those of you who just arrived on this planet, or >> think you did, let me explain something: THE MILITARY >> DOES LOTS OF THINGS IN SECRET. This has been true for >> years, in many countries and many branches of the service. >> It's called "national security". I have no problem with >> this and I see no reason why they should waste their time >> and my tax money answering questions or explaining things >> to every flake who comes down the road with some fuzzy, >> grainy pictures of something that might not be a weather >> balloon. > >I don't think anyone would argue that the military does lots of things >that are secret. > >But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked. > >A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon. >B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy? Because maybe it WASN'T just a weather balloon! Sheesh! Maybe "it's just a weather balloon" is military PR talk for "Nose out because we're working on secret stuff here and we're not going to tell you anything else." >BTW: This is one of the classical, unanswered questions in the Roswell >case. No, it's one of the classical, stupid questions in the Roswell case. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 20:48:54 GMT References: <1993Jan20.193526.8581@odin.corp.sgi.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 72 In article <1993Jan20.193526.8581@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >Peter Nelson: > >>>If you have some evidence of anything extraterrestrial >>> going on at Roswell or anywhere else then let's see it. >>> Don't expect everybody to do your work for you! Talk >>> is cheap and Occam's razor says if there is anything secret >>> going on at a military base it's more likely to be a >>> military secret than an alien spaceship. > > >Peter, > >Regardless of what occured at Roswell, it disturbs me with all the evidence >pointing towards something very unusual occuring that hot July night back >in 47' that you can just sheepishly be fed a load of crud & like it. It's not a question of "liking it", it's just that this is how the military likes to work: in secret. >There is a plethora of evidence supporting that something did happen that >night, & it appeared not to be of this world. Says you. I've never seen a shred of anything I would class as "evidence" that there was anything "not of this world" there. The problem is that UFO enthusiasts have a much looser definition of "evidence" than I do. Personal testimonials and poor-quality fuzzy, or otherwise questionable photographs are the best we've been offered in nearly 50 years of UFO hunting. No physical evidence, no photographic or video evidence of an alleged alien spaceship interacting with other people or items in the scene (so as to corroborate the pictures), etc. Very weak stuff. > If my hard earned tax dollars >are being spent to cover this thing up, I for one want to know about it. If >you condone this form of activity, then you deserve exactly what they feed >you. It's not a question of "condoning" it. My opinions about the use and abuse of "national security" are orthogonal to the topic. The bottom line remains that you have no good evidence of anything extraterrestrial going on at Roswell or elsewhere. >The National Security veil is the most abused peace of legislation that >there is involving UFOs & anything else they want to hide. True. But that's the way of the world. According to the current issue of the Economist, the British still have military secrets from WW I ! The bottom line remains: if you're going to claim that something of extraterrstrial origin is/was at Roswell or anywhere else on Earth it's up to you to come up with the evidence. Really big secrets have a way of getting out and NOTHING IN HUMAN HISTORY would be bigger than aliens at an Air Force or Army base. They couldn't keep it a secret when US forces entered Cambodia or bombed a hospital in Hanoi, or plenty of other things that they hoped to keep secret. The ball is really in your court. ---peter Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!aw2s+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <8fLPJ4q00Uh_M5emVc@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 15:25:40 -0500 From: Andrew Todd Weinstein Subject: Eyewitness Video Lines: 31 Did anyone see the Eyewitness Video show that had a special on crop circles? I thought it was incredibly biased the way they just showed how a bunch of losers went out in the crop fields and made circles using night vision in the middle of the night. It was so biased that they just finished the story by saying how that wrapped up the mystery of the crop circles and it is forever labeled a hoax without looking at more evidence such as a comparison of the circles the hoaxers made with other circles people have seen after seeing large glowing lights above the fields the night they they were made. And they also didn't show the actual result of the crop circle scientifically, they did not show that the ones the hoaxers made probably broke the stems while the other crop circles found had no stems broken (which requires a TREMENDOUS force downwards) and some were genetically altered, which I doubt the hoaxers would attempt to do. Also, there were articles from hoaxers that made some crop circles and they claimed themselves that they did not produce all of the crop circles which again, Eyewitness Video did not tell us. I don't think that TV show ever examined one of their videos before the way they did in that show with the crop circles, and they did a really bad job in attempting to do so because it was so one-sided and biased. I called their 800 number and told them what I thought about that show and how biased it was and they said they were flooded with phone calls from many other people making the same comment. What do you think about that Eyewitness Video show that had the crop circles? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13627 alt.alien.visitors:12759 sci.skeptic:37203 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Don't worry be happy. Message-ID: <73986@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 06:38:35 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: Boy, you people have really put on a lot of postings since I've been gone. I'm still not caught up. All I have to say is, don't worry be happy. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13628 alt.alien.visitors:12760 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <73987@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 06:41:14 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: I still have not time to say anything now. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13629 alt.alien.visitors:12761 alt.religion.kibology:5883 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <73988@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 06:42:36 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: All is well in California. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) Subject: Re^2: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: <1993Jan20.183120.2577@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: tellabh Organization: Carl Pellonpaa Fan Club - South Chapter References: <8874.14255@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 18:31:20 GMT Lines: 25 Len Bucuvalas writes: >... >So...you think that the name "Earthlings" sounds sophisticated? NASA >designates all planets in any system by their star + orbital >position.ergo...Reticulum3 = third planet from Zeta reticulum...or >SOL3 = third planet from our sun designated as SOL. > I have to call you on this one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I saw in the literature (astronomical, not ufological) is that the existence of extrasolar planets is still very much in doubt. There are a few stars which appear to have massive subluminous companions and Beta Pictoris has a nice dust disk that could have or be coalescing into planets, but there's nothing proven. What NASA publication referred to such a naming scheme? >I suppose we can also be called Solarians! Dont let the terminlogy get >in the way of understanding the research. Words are an arbitrary point >of reference to provide clarity for the reader..that's all. No argument. J. Johnson jcj@tellabs.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13631 alt.alien.visitors:12763 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!news.dell.com!texsun!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!purplehaze!geoffm From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1jk8j0INN55m@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> Date: 20 Jan 93 19:18:56 GMT References: <73645@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca. Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com I caught the last ten minutes or so of the first episode. What I want to know is, what's wrong with the uppity broad's nose??? Geoff -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Geoff Miller + + + + + + + + Sun Microsystems geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM + + + + + + + + Menlo Park, California -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13632 alt.alien.visitors:12764 sci.skeptic:37208 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Here I am again. Message-ID: <15571.2b5daaf2@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 20 Jan 93 19:41:38 EST References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73951@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 10 In article <73951@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Folks: My computer konked out for a few days but I'll catch up with > you people later. > John Winston. Phew. John, you had me worried there for awhile... -G Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: Date: 20 Jan 93 11:35:29 GMT References: <1993Jan19.110625.15855@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za> Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: wea.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Wayne Smith (wayne@concave.cs.wits.ac.za) wrote: > Concerning this case: with all the apparent debris lying around, and all the people who were supposed to have been at or near the site, why isn't it that someone kept some of the strange material as a keepsake? And if someone did keep some of it what would happen if they went public with it?? > Cheers, > Wayne --Judging by past cases, a government agency representative would make a visit to them to ask them to hand the material over. If they refuse, the government gets someone to break in and search the house and take it once found. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13633 alt.alien.visitors:12766 sci.skeptic:37210 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bx711 From: bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Date: 21 Jan 1993 01:10:58 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1jkt72INNsno@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> Reply-To: bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > > I agree. Discussions about Star Trek or the value of TV > have little relationship to alt.alien.visitors or sci.skeptic. I don't know much about the a.a.v. crowd, but I think this discussion is perfectly relevant to sci.skeptic. You're making claims about the literacy and intellectual capacity of STTNG fans, and suggesting that people who enjoy television are inferior to you. These are unsupported assertions that are just _begging_ for a skeptical response. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Date: 20 Jan 1993 19:09:48 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 38 Message-ID: <1jkt4sINNgk0@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes: >Didn't we hear a while back about the guys who supposedly created all >these things as a joke and then video taped how they did it? Are crop >circles still actually believed to be made by aliens (I thought the guys >had enough proof otherwise)? It certainly explains some of them, but definitely not all. For intance, the method they used (using a 2x4 board with a rope connected to each end) breaks the crops. In some of the crop circles, none of the crops are harmed and contunue to grow. I also saw something on a TV interview with one of the "Circle Experts" (an easy title to gain since very little is known about them - nevertheless...) said that in the circles that were deemed "authentic", genetic damage is done to the seed embreos (sp?) indside the circle area, while the crops outside the circle were unharmed. They showed pictures of healthy crops and ones supposedly from the circle under a microscope. On the same show, they also showed a complex circle which VERY CLOSELY resembled a mandelbrot picture. As far as the speculations for their cause, it's as wide ranged as oit ever was. I remeber hearing a report saying the speculated causes ranged from UFO's to votexes of air, to hedgehogs running in a circle (and of course, hoaxes). I particularly enjoyed the "headghog" anwer :-). >Just asking..... > >-- >Kevin T. Stiner |"..because happiness is not >stinerkt@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu |an ideal of reason but of >AMIGA 4000 Serial No. 000403 |imagination." >NeXT mail encouraged!! | --IMMANUEL KANT Thanks Robert Fentiman UseNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu At: University of Minnesota, Duluth Amiga 2000! Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell.seas.ucla.edu!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mr Sceptic Message-ID: <9180@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 20 Jan 93 23:42:54 GMT References: <1993Jan12.185150@cogs.sussex.ac.uk> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: Setec Astronomy Lines: 22 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > Last fall some religious group started plastering this area > with posters telling us that the Second Coming would occur in > October. Guess what? The posters are all still up but nothing > happened. Well, to quote the Jacson Browne lyric: "Don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet." > Some people will believe anything. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've lost my copy of the "Logical Fallacies" list, but I think this is a Number Four, "Hasty Generalization". -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13635 alt.alien.visitors:12769 sci.skeptic:37215 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!sahara.lanl.gov!jlg From: jlg@sahara.lanl.gov (J. Giles) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan20.225619.23518@newshost.lanl.gov> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 22:56:19 GMT Lines: 64 In article , serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: |> In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: |> |> >In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: |> [...] |> > I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because |> > the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, |> > masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) |> > when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. |> |> I still disagree. In the last couple of years ST:NG has dealt with medical |> ethics, gender issues, parenting, the futility of war, justice (in many |> different ways), cultural relativism and multiculturalism, the relation of |> technology to science, and to life, and I could go on and on. [...] I watch ST:TNG all the time and consider it a relatively interesting show. But - to claim that it has "dealt with" any of these issues in anything more than a superficial way is rather an exaggeration. Let's take the show on gender identity you mentioned as an example. 1) The show soft-peddled the issue by inventing a race of neuter humanoids and having the character of interest secretly identify herself as female. In short: they picked a race that the audience would consider strange and had the "abnormal" behavior be what the audience would consider normal. To really deal with the issue of gender identity problems they would have to have a *human* who wishes a sex change. 2) The show (in the Love Boat tradition of several parallel plots) devoted only a fraction of the episode to the question. Hardly time to really deal with such a complicated issue. 3) The character is question had none of the pathos of a person who *really* has gender identity problems. There was no hint of depression, suicidal tendencies, false joviality (to cover the first two), and probably huge numbers of other symptoms which I don't know because I've never personally studied the disorder. In short, the show trivialized the issue. 4) The show resorted to a techno-babble solution of an overnight "cure" for the character. Talk about trivializing an issue. If there really were an overnight *cure* for gender identity problems, there would soon be no such problems. This last point is a particular flaw of the Star Trek series (TNG or any of the rest). They always manage to come up with a complete solution with no residual effects in the last 10 minutes of the show. It's often this techno-babble type of solution, but not always. Sometimes it's another kind of babble. For example, when there's a brewing war and Jean-Luc finds a simple and completely acceptable compromise at the last minute which leaves both sides of the potential war completely amicable. Is this really sophistication in drama? Or is it just sophistry? Real social problems just don't go away - and seldom do technical problems for that matter (new technological techniques require considerable break-in time). To say that a show is relatively interesting (compared to other TV fare) and even to say that it's relatively intelligent (compared to other TV fare) is not really saying much. Stat Trek is *entertaining*. It needn't be intellectually sophisticated for that. -- J. Giles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13636 alt.alien.visitors:12770 sci.skeptic:37217 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!sahara.lanl.gov!jlg From: jlg@sahara.lanl.gov (J. Giles) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan20.231528.25880@newshost.lanl.gov> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory References: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 23:15:28 GMT Lines: 14 In article , serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: |> [...] |> Some of the shows really blow me away with the power of their message, as |> did the first Deep Space Nine episode which dealt with a powerful emotional |> theme, the nature of time, and a bit tension and drama. [...] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That was one of the most comical sequences I've ever encountered. These alians conduct a discussion with the human character in an ordered sequence of topics, inferences, etc. and yet claim to be ignorant of the nature of time. If they can conduct an ordered interview, they know of time. -- J. Giles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston Message-ID: <1993Jan21.021304.15641@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <8883.27620@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 02:13:04 GMT Lines: 24 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > > It's too much effort to have to update the SUBJECT:'s > in my kill file every time he introduces a new one, > which he does sometimes several times a day. > > >....why dont you do that instead >>of sitting here pissing and moaning like a spoiled child? > > They have remedial reading classes for adults, you know. > Show us one place where I've pissed and moaned on the > subject of Winston. My only comment on him up until > this posting was on the First Amendment issue, above. > > >---peter > nelson_p@apollo.hp.com - added to the 'ol kill file; TOO MUCH WHINING! JEFF- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!fsgaw1 From: fsgaw1@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Re: Once StarTr D9/now Regulating Bullshit Message-ID: <1993Jan20.141111.1@acad3.alaska.edu> Lines: 15 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 22:11:11 GMT Who cares what people write here......if it begins as something intended for this news group....fine. But if people want to bullshit further on whether this and that is intellectual or not who cares. People are going to do and say what they think (including me) even if it has nothing to do with the orginal posted topic. Beam yourself North Korea...where they stay stick to the set rules of society. Talk about our leader. Hang our leader on the wall and Sing stupid songs aout our leader. And if u deviate any from the norm of these tasks lets blow the horn.... Bite the Big one ron. Even if people are saying nothing but bullshit...let the conversation go to its end. Most will get bored anyway, and what right do u possess to regulate it. ____ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan20.193438.17199@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 20 Jan 93 19:34:38 GMT Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson Lines: 31 In article <1993Jan20.070944.23587@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes: >graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >>I don't think anyone would argue that the military does lots of things >>that are secret. >> >>But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked. >> >>A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon. >>B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy? > >Let's say they were testing MANNED balloons as a recon platform or to set >an altitude record and something went wrong and the crew was killed. It >would be very embarrassing public relations-wise if this go out. This sounds >like a plausible reason for secrecy. > Or maybe it was one of those 23 billion dollar weather balloons and they didn't want people to know they wasted so much money on a balloon that didn't even work. That seems more likely. Or, maybe they're just being perverse. "What? A bunch of loonies waving grainy photographs? Screw 'em. Ahhh, nope! Sorry, it's a secret! (Hee hee..look at them run..hee hee hee.)" I'd sure be tempted to do it. -- *************************************************************************** "I was pleased to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know."----- Mark Twain, _Life on the Mississippi_ Jason "corleyj@gas.uug.arizona.edu" Corley Was Here But Isn't Anymore Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13638 alt.alien.visitors:12774 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!dbased.nuo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!willee.enet.dec.com!fretts From: fretts@willee.enet.dec.com (Carole Fretts) Subject: Re: Don Allen Message-ID: <1993Jan20.220712.1482@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp> <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 22:03:52 GMT Lines: 14 In article , robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) writes... >In article <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >> >>Ask Don about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. _Then_ praise him. > > >Indeed. Ok, I will. Don Allen, do you have "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"? If so, I would appreciate receiving a copy. Thanks! Carole Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13639 alt.alien.visitors:12775 alt.religion.kibology:5891 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: I'm back. Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <73949@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:34:47 GMT Lines: 14 In article <73949@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Everbody: I just got back on the Net. It's sort of like the sign >they had out in front of the psychic's convention that said, "Cancelled >due to unforseen difficulties. I'll catch up with you people later. >John Winston. Oh no, he forgot to close the quote marks! That means that everything I'm typing here is actually part of what the sign said! Waah! I feel my copyright to this text slipping away! -- K." P.S. Hi, sillm. From: brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 16:19:04 GMT Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <15840003@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Organization: HP Mfg. Test Div., Loveland, CO Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!hplvec!brian Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors References: <73645@cup.portal.com> Lines: 34 Peter Nelson writes: I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th and 20th century literature, including important works of science fiction! Peter, I very much take exception to this. I thought you were better informed. I, as an engineer, know many engineers who love Star Trek for the moral, ethical, political and human rights issues it consistently raises with a thin veneer of sci-fi, and I'll bet if you surveyed the engineers at the Chelmsford plant, you'd find an awful lot of other Trekkers. Star Trek derives many of its themes from Shakespeare, and many of the actors are Shakespearean. I am not sure there IS such a thing as an average Star trek viewer. As has been told many times, it runs the gamut from children to NASA rocket scientists. I consider myself to be very well read, and I don't mean sci-fi. Television is an eye on our society, and Star Trek represents humankinds best hopes and dreams for a future we can be proud of. If that's what you call lowbrow, so be it. Thanks for your opinions, but you're WRONG! By the way, what's this doing in alt.alien.visitors? There is a rec.arts.startrek. group for discussions like this! Brian Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13640 alt.alien.visitors:12777 sci.skeptic:37220 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!hp4at!mcsun!sun4nl!philapd!apdnm!apdnmi!tcpsrv.syssup.tds.philips.nl!marks From: marks@idca.tds.philips.nl (Mark Stretch) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Weather Report. Message-ID: Date: 20 Jan 93 16:00:26 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73776@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@idca.tds.philips.nl Lines: 14 In <73776@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Weather Watchers: The weather reports here in sunny Northern >Caif. for the last week has been, floods, blizzards, earthquakes, >funnel clouds (any other place they call them tornadoes) and more >to come. It's got to where we have National Reports on T.V. with >all sorts of forcasts. As they say in Hawaii something about be >happy. >John Winston. It can't be that bad, cause there's nothing on european TV about it. WAIT, what am I doing sending a serious reply to John_-_Von Daniken. ctrl-c, ctrl-c, Abort, exterminate, ctrl-alt-explode. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13641 alt.alien.visitors:12778 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Don Allen Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 03:10:03 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan21.031003.2167@bilver.uucp> References: <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp> <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> Lines: 52 In article <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >According to mdl@oscar.bellcore.com (Michael Lynch): >>According to dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen): >>> Sheesh..why do I bother reading this newsgroup? >> >>Don't stop!! You and a few others are the only reason I still subscribe >>to this group. Your posts are sane and informative, and always interesting. > >Ask Don about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. _Then_ praise him. >-- >Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> > "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me > want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagels to my face / > and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me" Yo Dickhead! :-) You looking for a fight? Well stick your head up and your ass and fight for AIR you insignificant little dweeb. HAR HAR HA,I kill me.... Psstt..come up close here.. . . . *#$ Why don't you post your address so I can you a dollar to buy a clue.? I already settled this in email so WHY are you deliberately provoking a negative response and casting apersions about _my_ character when you know less than dog shit about me or what things *I* go through? You don't know jack shit about me bub, and considering the way you've consistently mis-characterized me tells me that you aren't even worth the value of fly excreta as a person. I want nothing to do with you or "your kind"..in other words, go peddle it somewheres else and keep your smart assed remarks to yourself for if you don't I will surely add your name encoded in a most derogatory way conceivable in every *text* I disseminate , which I might add is a considerable amount. Your choice. "Your move, creep" -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13644 alt.alien.visitors:12779 sci.skeptic:37226 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!pitt.edu!gvls1!jabber!distant!edw From: edw@distant.uucp (Ed Watkeys) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <01050133.o78qbm@distant.uucp> Date: 21 Jan 93 05:48:12 GMT Reply-To: edw@distant.uucp Organization: Distant Software Lines: 95 X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v2 In article (talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic), serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: > In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > > >In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: > > >>I second this. Star Trek constantly interweaves drama and suspense with > >>social, philosophical and even spiritual issues, making it perhaps the most > >>intellectually stimulating set of shows on the tube today. > > > Which is a bit like saying that "Gertrude, here, is the furriest > > goldfish in my aquarium". Granted, Star Trek may be intellectually > > stimulating compared to, say, Monday Night Football, or intellectually > > stimulating if you have the intellect of a potted plant of a piece > > of lawn furniture. But that's as far as it goes. > > > I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because > > the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, > > masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) > > when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. > > I still disagree. In the last couple of years ST:NG has dealt with medical > ethics, gender issues, parenting, the futility of war, justice (in many > different ways), cultural relativism and multiculturalism, the relation of > technology to science, and to life, and I could go on and on. As a social > scientist with an interest in physics and science, I can accept some non- > scientific aspects in order to deal with problems of our society in a > differnt context. The idealism of ST:NG (we can achieve something better) > is also a needed addition to our cynical (and as your posting shows > sometimes hypercritical :> ) culture. It's also NOT low brow. I recognize > attempts to deal with different philosophical positions and issues in those > episodes. Granted, this is done subtely and the average viewer may not > recognize them all the time, but it does have to appeal to a mass market to > stay on the air. It's an art to do that while saying something, and given > the number of educated people who enjoy it, you are probably somewhat > presumptuous in your comments. OK, more than somewhat. > > >> Granted, the original is 60s TV and can't be judged by 90s standards. > > > Please restate: are you saying that 90's standards are better or > > worse than 60's standards? > > Much worse. The role of women, minorities and the ability to deal with > social issues was very difficult in the sixties. In fact, many > controversial ideas of Gene Roddenberry (dealing with racism and sexism) for > the original show were nixed by studio execs. I'm sure this still happens > with the new shows, but the opportunities have expanded greatly. > > >> And some of the episodes are rather bland (that can be said about every > >> series). > > > > Not to mention every show. > > Only if you don't think about them and just want to sit there and be > entertained. Then it will be bland. > > > The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and > > isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these > > themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such > > diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the > > Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th > > and 20th century literature, including important works of science > > fiction! > > Perhaps the average viewer. But I've read many diverse subjects, and while > classical Greek literature and the bible and SHakespeare are good, fiction > doesn't stop being good just because it becomes modern. Shakespeare was > criticized in his day for appealing to the masses and lacking intellect as > well. Also, many modern issues aren't dealt with in those classics. > Furthermore, TV is also a form of art. Just like many plays are rather bad > and die out, so do many TV shows. Some live on, and for TV, Star Trek is > one because it deals with philosophical issues. Your above paragraph smacks > again of intellectual arrogance and lack of tolerance. Furthermore, I could > give some very critical remarks about especially the Bible and Greek > classical literature, but that would be another subject. > > >---peter > > - Scott > If Peter didn't mention the Bible, I would have thought that he was a victim of Ayn Rand. The Simpsons comment is what got me really wondering. I personally think that the Simpsons is one of the best shows on television. Things such as mob behavior and the hypocrisy of most of society's inhabitants are constant sources of material in the show. The show could easily be called "Young Friedrich Nietzsche in Late Twentieth Century Suburbia." There is so much depth and texture to the show you truly get out of it what you put in in terms of the effort you exert in watching it. Also, it's actually funny, and it doesn't have a laugh track, which makes it unique in the television industry. Ed -- Edwin H. Watkeys III edw@distant.uucp Distant Software dsinc!jabber!distant!edw +1 215 387 7971 edw%distant@bts.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Message-ID: <1993Jan21.133239.7097@crc.ac.uk> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK References: <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:32:39 GMT Lines: 50 In article <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes: > Didn't we hear a while back about the guys who supposedly created all > these things as a joke and then video taped how they did it? Are crop > circles still actually believed to be made by aliens (I thought the guys > had enough proof otherwise)? > The two guys you are referring to are Dave Bower and Doug Chorley. Although originally they seem to have claimed to make all the circles on cross examination they seem to have actually made maybe not quite 200. There are 3000-4000 reports from the UK alone, without any in other countries. It should be made clear that all of the circles researchers I have spoken to have always accepted that at least some of the circles were hoaxes. They have frequently disagreed about what proportion were hoaxes, and from what is now coming out, would seem to have underestimated the problem. When I spoke to researcher Paul Fuller last Saturday he told me that more groups of hoaxers had come forward and some of them were being very helpful in identifying which formations they had made. In some cases they identified circles which researchers had suspected as being hoaxes. In others they identified formations which researchers had not suspected as being hoaxes. The researchers are going to have to rethink what they think are genuine or otherwise. The circles researchers still think there is a small proportion which are a genuine phenomenon, although as usual they disagree on what proportion and what the phenomenon is. The explanations seem to break down into three groups : 1. All circles are hoaxes 2. Many (most) circles are hoaxes, but a few are caused by natrural phenomena 3. Many (most) circles are hoaxes, but a few are caused by mysterious forces or intelligences. I believe this is what you mean by caused by aliens. To give the researchers their due, I am not sure any of them have called this aliens, just mysterious intelligences. Other people have taken this to mean aliens. (By researchers, I mean people that go and do field research, not people like me who read about it in books) For what it is worth, in order of probability I think 2, then 1, then (maybe) 3. Unless there is some other option we have not considered. Steve -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!louie!brl.mil!mm From: mm@brl.mil (Mike Markowski) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan21.150347.8162@udel.edu> Sender: usenet@udel.edu (USENET News Service) Nntp-Posting-Host: wind.brl.mil Reply-To: mm@brl.mil Organization: US Army Research Laboratory References: <1993Jan20.193526.8581@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:03:47 GMT Lines: 23 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: |> Really big secrets have a way of getting out and NOTHING IN HUMAN HISTORY |> would be bigger than aliens at an Air Force or Army base. I agree. To study an extraterrestrial vehicle or crew would require a large and diverse group of scientists and engineers. It's very unlikely that these would all be military sympathizers to the extent that they would seal this off from the world. Someone would tell his wife or best friend or let it slip on his death bed, etc. After so many decades the most likely reason an et vehicle could remain secret is if something so big or so bad were discovered that it left no doubt in anyone's mind that it should remain secret. But in that case, we should observe some major shift in governmental goals and policies, and we haven't. Consider NASA's continuing quest for a reasonable budget. Secrets surrounding aircraft at night make us curious, but more shouldn't be read into it than the known facts can support. -- Mike Markowski mm@brl.mil Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moderated Newsgroup Message-ID: <74068@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 06:49:28 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <92361.172320U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Thinkers: Well I hear that the Great Kibo refers to me as being human. Thanks very much. That is the nicest thing anyone has called me in months. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!icd.ab.com!usenet From: oldham@icd.ab.com (Daniel R. Oldham) Subject: Cleveland Message-ID: <1993Jan21.143632.14939@icd.ab.com> Sender: usenet@icd.ab.com (Usenet News Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: heron.icd.ab.com Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc. Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:36:32 GMT Lines: 3 Everything is fine here in Cleveland. dano: Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13645 alt.alien.visitors:12784 sci.skeptic:37227 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: UFO Genius. Message-ID: <74027@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 20:18:12 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 44 Subject: UFO Genius. I have just come up with a cure for some of you people that have the audacity to question my veracity. We're going to do to you what the space people did to a janitor. Here's what they did;...A stupid janitor was turned into a brainy mathematics genius after he waa given brain surgery by UFO aliens! Maintenance man Anatoly Popov, 27, was reportedly abducted by space aliens while returning home from work at a large food-processing plant in Odessa, Russia. Authorities became alarmed after Popov failed to come home to his wife, Irina, and their 10-month-old son. He was officially listed as a missing person five days later when no traces of him were found. Police initially suspected foul play, although they could find no motive for anyone wanting to harm the janitor, who had a sixth-grade education. The shocking truth about what really happened was revealed 13 days later when Anatoly was returned to Earth by the UFO aliens. He was beamed back to the factory gates of his workplace at precisely 6 a.m. to start work. Stunned co-workers report that Anatoly's uniform appeared especially clean and he had a "special glow" on his face. But the biggest shock of all came when he started talking and suddenly sounded like Albeert Einstein instead of a simple clean-up man. "Anatoly was like a whole new person," says factory foremen Boris Spednesky. "He spoke very eloquently like a college professor. I asked him where he'd been and he said he had visited the outer reaches of the universe with beings far more advanced than humans. "He said they abducted him from outside the factory and took him to a beautiful planet where he was treated very well. Alien doctors examined him and performed some super-advanced treatments on his brain." Anatoly's new genius IQ was demonstrated within minutes after his return when the plant's generators failed, endangering millions of dollares of frozen food. "It was an emergency that could have been devastating to the company." says foreman Spednesky. "But Anatoly told me he could fix the problem, and he started sputtering off some complicated mathematical equations. "I couldn't understand the mathematics, of course, but within 45 minutes he got the plant back to normal operation." Anatoly has since been examined by doctors at the Russian Institute of Health who have confirmed that he is now a genius. After taking brain scans and EKG tests, experts concluded that his mind was altered by the UFO aliens. "In effect, he had a brain transplant and is now the only human being to have the brain of a far more intelligent species," says Dr. Rudolf Teslan. Source of Information: 26-Sun-December 22, 21992. JW speaking. What do you think of that? John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13646 alt.alien.visitors:12785 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Smoking Message-ID: <74028@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 20:29:28 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1j2cntINN2g5@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1jctrvINN5ii@zikzak.apana.org.au> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I agree with Jean that too much smoking of Ziggurates is bad for you. John Winston. From: simpson@teecs.UUCP (Libby Simpson) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 21:40:30 GMT Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker Message-ID: <79720002@teecs.UUCP> Organization: Litton Systems, Toronto ONT Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!geac!censor!teecs!simpson Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors References: Lines: 10 My sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!!! this "brain" has an imagination that would best be served by writing fiction and selling it to low budget movie monguls. He wastes valuable network resources with all the crap that dreams up every night. Everytime I see a posting from this dude, I avoid reading it, because its always sounds like some weird stuff he made up in a dream.[3~ Its not just me feeling this way, its also my other friends feel the same way too. John Winston, with all the crap you write you give the REAL honest to goodness UFO researchers a bad name! Libby Simpson Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13647 alt.alien.visitors:12787 alt.religion.kibology:5893 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: The Integratron. Message-ID: <74033@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 21:00:21 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 21 Subject: The Integratron. Although life on Venus is not in the physical as we know it and we probubly couldn't see the people who are there with our physical eyes there are people who live there. They are in the fourth dimension. One of the things that they have there that we might like is called the Integratron. It is a device that a person can go into when they are a certain age and it will subject you body to maganetic fields that will regress you in age. The people of Veuus age like we do but stay looking like we do at 24 years old till they get about 75 year old and they then age a little more. At that time they can go into the Integratron and be regressed back so they look and feel like they are about 24 again. They are allowed after 75 more years to do the same thing over. After that length of time they must get special persmission to go in any more. They then make their transition and incarnate to a family of their choice. The space people showed George VanTassel at Giant Rock Airport in California how to build one of these things. He tried but never got it to work. A friend of mine by the last name of Canning has now bought the place which is near Landers, Calif. and he takes people on tours of the place. Would you want to have the ability to be regressed? John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6 From: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cleveland Date: 21 Jan 1993 18:34:59 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 5 Message-ID: <1jmqcjINN5td@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu Everything is _not_ all right in Cleveland! For one thing, we've got brown snow! (Well, today's heat wave melted that, but we still have brown air.) -- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!rtech!amdahl!amdcad!amdint.amd.com!mozart!billp From: billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) Subject: Roswell Message-ID: Sender: usenet@amd.com Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:13:35 GMT Lines: 52 I like Roswell. It is close to the mountains, beautiful. The "facts" as I know them are : 1) Something crashed outside of Roswell. Witnesses thought it was a plane or something. 2) Next day, Brazel carted stuff and filled up a shed. Called the sheriff. Debris is spread out over a big area. 3) Sheriff and Brazel call Air Force. Local Air Intellegence Officer comes out. Base commander then releases a press notice : "We have a flying saucer." 4) General Twining flies down, takes over. Local base commander takes a "leave" immediately. 5) A B-29 is filled up with crates of stuff, flies off to another base. 6) Twining and ATIC guy cook up balloon story. Allow reporters in the next day to look at balloon remains. 7) Brazel is help incognito for three days, won't talk, says that "They scared the shit out of me!" 8) Air Force still refuses to talk about now. Not even mentioned in Blue Book as a balloon. What can be gleaned from this? 1) Something crashed. The Air Force doesn't want us all to know. 2) The Air Force STILL doesn't want us to know. (Almost 50 years later). 3) Many people have come forward to claim having seen "alien" stuff. 4) Goldwater, etc have been denied access to UFO files. It seems that several explanations are possible : 1) A secret aircraft crashed. I think this is unlikely. It has been too long just for a secret plane. 2) An experiment involving people has gone wrong. Similar to the Philadelphia thing. It has recently come to light that the military tested soldiers in the gas chamber for toxicity to unknown gasses. They still won't recognize soldiers who are now having health problems. No records have been kept. 3) A radioactive device had a problem. Military won't acknowledge it since it shows how irresponsible they are. (Typical) 4) An alien craft crashed. 5) Some other unknown thing happened. The easy explanation: Military thing, top secret, like the gassing. The base commander explanation : UFO out of control, crashed. My left-field idea: Aliens FAKED the crash to alert stupid nuclear military that someone is watching. How 'bout it? -- Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13648 alt.alien.visitors:12790 sci.skeptic:37229 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!doug.cae.wisc.edu!umn.edu!psci11.polisci.umn.edu!serb From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: psci11.polisci.umn.edu Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <73645@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan20.225619.23518@newshost.lanl.gov> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:04:54 GMT Lines: 44 In article <1993Jan20.225619.23518@newshost.lanl.gov> jlg@sahara.lanl.gov (J. Giles) writes: (Much deleted) >To say that a show is relatively interesting (compared to other TV >fare) and even to say that it's relatively intelligent (compared to >other TV fare) is not really saying much. Stat Trek is *entertaining*. >It needn't be intellectually sophisticated for that. >-- >J. Giles In some ways your comments (see old posting if you want to look at them) help prove my point. TV cannot (except some PBS episodes -- by the way, I recommend The DAy the Universe Changed, a PBS series on science by James Burke) cover these topics with depth. But TV can open people's minds to talk about them. In the gender show, one could say that the use of another race (see, the topic aliens comes up here!) is a device to get people watching to question their views on such issues as homosexuality or sexism. The nature of the "solution" in this case also left the question open. Obviously, these shows don't offer teach-ins on the issue. They START discussion (as your post and this debate helps prove), and for people who don't have the inclination to think about these things, they might by use of drama start opening minds. As regards your other post about time. You too gibly throw off the idea of thinking about time dimensionally, and the fact that our linear experience of it may simply be a psychological convention. The message there was that linear experience of time in terms of actions may hide the fact that our existence may transcend linear time. The fact that the aliens had to be shown to conduct the interview in an ordered process is an obvious necessity due to the fact that we live in a dimension where we experience time linearly. There is no way humanly possible to show that sort of thing without adhering to the conventions of our state of existence. If ideas about the dimensionality and perhaps unity of time want to be discussed by more than just a few, drama will have to use those conventions to try to get people to start thinking beyond what they normally experience. Open minded people can do that, and drama can be an emotional aid to logic and reason in opening those avenues of thought. For those doubting the validity of this post to those topics: for sci.skeptic, talk about time and dimensionality is definitely appropriate to the subject matter. For the other cross posts: talk.religion.newage: thinking of time in this manner opens up a place for spirit in a manner not thought of before. For alt. alien.visitors: such a title is so eclectic that almost anything is postable. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13649 alt.alien.visitors:12791 sci.skeptic:37230 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!gatech!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!athena!jball From: jball@athena.cs.uga.edu (Bouncing Ball) Subject: Re: UFO Genius. Message-ID: Organization: University of Georgia, Athens References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74027@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:33:22 GMT Lines: 12 John_-_Winston wrote: >Subject: UFO Genius. [Stuff deleted] >Source of Information: 26-Sun-December 22, 21992. >JW speaking. What do you think of that? >John Winston. John, could you be a little more specific about your source of information? This sounds interesting, but you didn't leave much of a clue as to where people could look this stuff up for themselves. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13650 alt.alien.visitors:12792 sci.skeptic:37231 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!cochiti.lanl.gov!jlg From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan21.183130.13057@newshost.lanl.gov> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory References: <73645@cup.portal.com> <1jicirINN7al@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:31:30 GMT Lines: 16 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: |> [...] |> TV has nothing like this. The closest program is probably |> PBS's NOVA, and that's probably no better than high-school |> science. NOVA is constantly interrupting itself to explain |> the meaning of some term or concept that I think a well-educated |> person should already understand. I some future age, I'd like to see *one* astronomy documentary which can discuss the results of spectroscopy without going into a long description of the electromagnetic spectrum, rainbows, prisms, and such because the producers of the documentary assume that the viewers don't know what spectroscopy is. -- J. Giles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13651 alt.alien.visitors:12793 sci.skeptic:37232 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!cochiti.lanl.gov!jlg From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) Subject: Appropriate news groups (was: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.) Message-ID: <1993Jan21.185226.15928@newshost.lanl.gov> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory References: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan20.192306.5609@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan20.195448.17572@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:52:26 GMT Lines: 20 All this talk about inappropriate articles is misdirected. The internet newsgroups are not classrooms or colloquia. They more resemble department common rooms at a large university. Most of the people there are undergraduates or graduate students - and even a few professors - whose interest is in the subject matter of the department. The conversations there will probably not always be about the department's subject - but about matters of common interest to people who study within that department. The major problem is not inappropriate subjects (which will die out if they really aren't of common interest). The real problem is cross-posting. It's rather like connecting several common rooms together with a PA system - sure, it helps dissiminate ideas more quickly, but it also decreases the usefulness of having separate common rooms to begin with. I think it hurts more than it helps. It makes all newsgroups resemble a visit to the Student Union cafeteria. -- J. Giles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!dbased.nuo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: <1993Jan21.160601.27665@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 21 Jan 93 18:56:42 GMT References: <8874.14255@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 19 In article <8874.14255@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM>, lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) writes... >So...you think that the name "Earthlings" sounds sophisticated? NASA >designates all planets in any system by their star + orbital >position.ergo...Reticulum3 = third planet from Zeta reticulum...or >SOL3 = third planet from our sun designated as SOL. Sez who? Last I heard, NASA designates this here planet as "Earth", and our star as "the Sun". There's a couple of techno-weenies on the net who are on one-man crusades to get us to call the Moon "Luna" and like silliness, but that's about it. Reticulum is a constellation. By your star + orbital position thing, a hypothetical 3rd planet from Zeta Reticuli would be Zeta Reticuli 3. Yes, hypothetical, and yes ReticulI. There's no known planets outside our Solar System, and you have to use the genitive case of Reticulum. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!clam.rutgers.edu!loeckel From: loeckel@clam.rutgers.edu (chris Loeckel) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: 4D/life/Venus/etc Keywords: venus Message-ID: Date: 21 Jan 93 21:15:16 GMT Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 39 According to some posters, there is life on Venus in the "4th dimension." I think we are getting some terms confused here. The fourth dimension (irrespective of what Einstein said) is not "time," but the fourth PHYSICAL dimension (see Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_), and theoretically, there could exist an infinite number of physical dimensions, although there is no evidence to support any physical dimension beyond the third (I don't know how we WOULD prove extra dimensions, though, as we exist in only three). I cannot imagine what the fourth dimension would be like -- I cannot "think in 4 dimensions" -- because I have no experience with the fourth dimension, or I am not genius enough to do it, or both. What I think these posters mean to say is that there is life on Venus in the "implicate order" (reference to physicist David Bohm) or "ether," or whatever you want to call it. This "ether" is NOT a realm of physical matter and is most emphatically not to be confused with the physical dimensions. The only problem I have (and no small one, at that) with saying that there is life on Venus in the ether is that "in" the ether, "time" and "space" do not exist. These concepts have no meaning. Therefore, if there are beings "in" the ether (and, yes, there are consciousnesses in the ether), how can they possibly be at a particular place or in a particular time in the physical universe? So, posters, please elighten me. Are these beings "on" Venus in the same way that you or I may (or may not) be "on" the Earth when we are out of body -- that is, soaring above the treetops, etc.? That's the only explanation I can think of right now. I can't remember who made the original reference to the 4th dimension, but I think it may have been John Winston. (Sorry, JW, if it wasn't you!) Would JLS, EL, JW, SRK, CCS, or any other "Old Soul" (you know who you are) please share his or her thoughts on this matter with the readers of this most important news group? Thanks in advance, W'geeyih, Chris Loeckel a.k.a. Nirvana a.k.a. Captain Picard a.k.a. Commander Sisko loeckel@clam.rutgers.edu Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6 From: smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:46:32 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 27 Message-ID: <1jn5jpINNdvh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu While you may be correct in saying that there are no known planets associated with stars other than the sun, this is true only in that we have no absolute proof that such planets exist. This is misleading. Absolute proof in the form of a space probe or direct observation of another solar system is quite impossible given the limitations of modern technology. There is considerable indirect proof of which you may not be aware. Epsilon Eridani exhibits a "wobble" in its path through the celestial sphere which can be easily explained only by the presence of one or more "companions" with a total mass about six times that of Jupiter. Barnard's star (one of the closest to us) is thought to have two com- panions of 0.9 and 0.6 Jupiter masses. There is also a good deal of other (indirect) evidence in the form of spectrographic studies, which may be found in many introductory text- books (at least in summary form). I would direct you to these for further information. One might raise the objection that these companions are too large to be called planets. If they are nonluminous and orbiting a star, I don't know what else you'd call them. In any case, their existence could not possibly hurt the chances of smaller planets being present. I hope this is useful. -- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13654 alt.alien.visitors:12797 sci.skeptic:37235 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!emory!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!firnvx.firn.edu!waddell From: waddell@firnvx.firn.edu Subject: Re: Appropriate news groups (was: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.) Message-ID: <1993Jan21.165118.1@firnvx.firn.edu> Lines: 20 Sender: news@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Usenet News File Owner) Nntp-Posting-Host: firnvx.firn.edu Organization: Florida State University References: <1993Jan19.195209.5168@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan20.192306.5609@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan20.195448.17572@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1993Jan21.185226.15928@newshost.lanl.gov> Date: 21 Jan 93 16:51:18 EST In article <1993Jan21.185226.15928@newshost.lanl.gov>, jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) writes: > All this talk about inappropriate articles is misdirected... > > The major problem is not inappropriate subjects (which will die > out if they really aren't of common interest). The real problem > is cross-posting... I agree! An original poster can post to each appropriate newgroup instead of cross-posting, this will in the long run probably generate less bandwidth. If the original poster does not take this resposibility for themselves, then each follow-up poster should take out the references to the other newsgroups. That might be difficult though. You see I didn't follow my own advice. -- Have fun! =-Kathy-> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13655 alt.alien.visitors:12798 sci.skeptic:37237 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!lehigh.edu!luden From: luden@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: UFO Genius. Message-ID: Date: 21 Jan 93 21:49:28 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74027@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@Lehigh.EDU Organization: Lehigh University Computing Center Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.180.3.20 In article <74027@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: UFO Genius. > > (touching story deleted) > >JW speaking. What do you think of that? I've got high hopes I've got hiiiigh hopes High in the skyyyy Apple pie hopes... Dean Nelson den0@lehigh.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!titan!hal!jbm From: jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker Message-ID: <1993Jan21.224403.2488@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia References: <79720002@teecs.UUCP> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:44:03 GMT Lines: 37 simpson@teecs.UUCP (Libby Simpson) writes: >My sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!!! this "brain" has an imagination >that would best be served by writing fiction and selling it to >low budget movie monguls. He wastes valuable network resources >with all the crap that dreams up every night. Everytime I see >a posting from this dude, I avoid reading it, because its always ... etc. I would suggest, if you really want to see what a true, valuable network-resources-wasting fucking wanker is like, tune in to soc.culture.europe, soc.history, soc.culture.greek, and see. John Winston might be as mad as a meat axe if you please, or whatever disparaging epithets one may dream up, some of which may well be true, but he is not a *cunt* (yes, cunt, I chose the word carefully) like the poster you will find on the groups mentioned above. Moreover, some of his postings are interesting, insofar as they present data, sources not easily obtainable. That the data may be wrong, biased, fabricated, the sources deluded does not detract from its value. It is at least interesting from the anthropological and psychological angle. Did Carl Jung rave about UFOs being fucking wankers' delusions? No. He studied the phenomenon without prejudice, bearing in mind a near certainty that they were delusions. In that light, John Winston's postings are informative. And to finish on a less placid tone. You complainants, what the fuck do you contribute to this group? Whinge, whinge, whinge, bitch, bitch, bitch. Not a shred of information. Nothing. Zilch. Bugger all. So bugger off! Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!umeecs!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: John Winston human? Date: 21 Jan 1993 15:48:37 -0600 Organization: University of Confused Thought Lines: 12 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <1jn5nlINNml2@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <92361.172320U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> <74068@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson) NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu Previously John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com wrote: >Dear Thinkers: Well I hear that the Great Kibo refers to me as being >human. Thanks very much. That is the nicest thing anyone has called me >in months. >John Winston. The nerve of Kibo! To say that John Winston is human is an insult to John. I can not believe that Kibo would stoop to demeaning John like that! -- Scott Erickson serickso@ub.d.umn.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13658 alt.alien.visitors:12801 sci.skeptic:37240 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan21.194925.19733@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:47:19 GMT Lines: 5 In article , sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner) writes... Space Rangers is good too... check it out.. it's on Wednesday nights. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13661 alt.alien.visitors:12802 alt.religion.kibology:5900 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jsbus From: jsbus@netcom.com (JSB Corp) Subject: Re: The Integratron. Message-ID: <1993Jan22.000354.4795@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <74033@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:03:54 GMT Lines: 18 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: (...20 lines del.) > Would you want to have the ability to be regressed? >John Winston. It is my belief that we do have the ability to be regressed, and, sure I want it! Doing extensive pranayama (breathing exercises) like rebirthing and keeping our emotional bodies clear, and our lives fun and facinating is all it takes (in my belief system :-) ) to keep our our bodies young and healthy. I have seen people drop decades as they learn to forgive, and believe "youthing" to be possible. Tom Wallace (tomwa@jsbus.com) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13662 alt.alien.visitors:12803 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!dbased.nuo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Don Allen Message-ID: <1993Jan21.200835.20394@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:07:08 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Jan20.220712.1482@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, fretts@willee.enet.dec.com (Carole Fretts) writes... > >In article , robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) writes... >>In article <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >>> >>>Ask Don about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. _Then_ praise him. >> >> >>Indeed. > >Ok, I will. Don Allen, do you have "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"? >If so, I would appreciate receiving a copy. Me too... thanks, Mary Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: Date: 21 Jan 93 14:54:12 GMT References: <1993Jan20.100852.10600@ntb.ch> Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 29 Nntp-Posting-Host: irw.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Paul Milsom (milsom@ntb.ch) wrote: > Roswell. > > 3) The special metal alloy used was secret. It was very thin, very light, and > very strong. It was, of course, extremely important that samples of the metal > didn't get into enemy hands. (Don't ask me what it was!) > If it weren't for all the witnesses, this would actually be quite a strong > case. (Don't flame me, I'm just answering Jim's question!) > Cheers, Paul. > Paul Milsom > milsom@ntb.ch If the secret metal alloy was secret 45 years ago, it ought to be commonly known nowadays, but, to date, I haven't seen or heard of any alloy that can stand a 10000 degree flame or bend itself back into shape, as well as being able to be rolled out thinly and be very light and strong. If anyone else knows of an alloy with those properties, send in details. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker Message-ID: <74102@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:55:10 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <79720002@teecs.UUCP> Lines: 4 Dear People: I am glad to hear Mr. Libby's opinion of my efforts to put down my views and honor his right to express himself. May the force be with you and all of that sort of stuff. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12806 talk.religion.newage:13665 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: "Science Faction" with John Winston Transcript Message-ID: <74104@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 18:04:29 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <12573@jjmhome.UUCP> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I didn't asked for Betty to do this but she asked me if it would be OK and she did it. Thanks very much. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu!fmsrl7!lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:17:20 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 51 Message-ID: <1jnp00INNh9c@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <1jn5jpINNdvh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article <1jn5jpINNdvh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) writes: : :While you may be correct in saying that there are no known planets :associated with stars other than the sun, this is true only in that :we have no absolute proof that such planets exist. : :This is misleading. Absolute proof in the form of a space probe or :direct observation of another solar system is quite impossible given :the limitations of modern technology. : :There is considerable indirect proof of which you may not be aware. :Epsilon Eridani exhibits a "wobble" in its path through the celestial :sphere which can be easily explained only by the presence of one or :more "companions" with a total mass about six times that of Jupiter. :Barnard's star (one of the closest to us) is thought to have two com- :panions of 0.9 and 0.6 Jupiter masses. Sorry to break in, but if this is that announcement last year that was in the the news (of course it is because it was first time that it had ever been used as proof according to all the media sources I read - and I read a lot as this subject matter interests me), a follow-up article said they had jumped to conclusions too soon, and I think they said, after further research, that it may be a binary star instead (although this part may be wrong). While the theory of the 'wobble' is very valid, it has, as of yet, not been enough to make the conclusion that planets are orbiting other star systems. The ONLY system so far known to have planets orbiting it is ours. I believe there are other planettary systems, the chances against it are astounding. I just hope to be around (and I probably will) when they discover them. Who knows, since I'm going for degrees in the astonomical field , I might just locate one? I can only hope! :-). :There is also a good deal of other (indirect) evidence in the form of :spectrographic studies, which may be found in many introductory text- :books (at least in summary form). I would direct you to these for :further information. : :One might raise the objection that these companions are too large to be :called planets. If they are nonluminous and orbiting a star, I don't :know what else you'd call them. In any case, their existence could :not possibly hurt the chances of smaller planets being present. I :hope this is useful. :-- Thanks Robert Fentiman UseNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu At: University of Minnesota, Duluth Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan22.040302.19430@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1993Jan20.193526.8581@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan21.150347.8162@udel.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:03:02 GMT Lines: 12 .mil -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: Date: 22 Jan 93 01:26:11 GMT References: <1993Jan19.110625.15855@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 73 wayne@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Wayne Smith) writes: Concerning this case: with all the apparent debris lying around, and all the people who were supposed to have been at or near the site, why isn't it that someone kept some of the strange material as a keepsake? ... Bill Brazel seems to have been someone who did - what happened might be instructive: BB: I rode out there [the field where the wreckage was found] on the average of once a week, and I was riding through that area, I was looking. That's why I found these little pieces. I never did really go looking for anything. I did't figure it was worth it anyway. But just curiosity, and I'd see something that didn't belong there and I'd get off and stick it in my chaps pocket. I might keep it there for a week before I'd reach in there. DS: Did your father know you were collecting the pieces? BB: Oh, yeah. I showed it to him. He said, oh, yeah, that's some of that thing I found. DS: But he didn't tell you to be quiet about it? BB: What the hell good is a little old scrap? A little piece of garbage? I was in Corona in the bar and the pool hall that was kind of a meeting place for that little town. That's where everybody got together when they went to town. Everybody was asking me... they'd all seen the papers... and they were all asking me about it. I said I'd picked up a few little old bits and pieces and fragments. Well, what are they? I said, hell, I don't know. And lo and behold, here comes the military. KR: In uniform? BB: Yeah. I still am not really sure, but I'm almost positive that the officer in charge, his name was Armstrong. A real nice guy. Now he had a sergeant with him that was real nice. And I think there were two other enlisted men. THey came out to the ranch and they were talking to me and they said, we understand your father found this weather balloon and I said yeah. And they said we understand that you found some bits and pieces of it. I've got a cigar box that's got a few in there. And this, I think he was a captain as best I can remember, said, well, we would like to take it with us. I said, well. He smiled and said, your father turned the rest of it over to us. You know he's under oath not to tell anyone. I said who knows better than I do. Well, he said, we came after those bits and pieces. I kind of smiled and I said its kind of like when I was in the Navy. We want volunteers. We want you, you, and you. I said okay, you can have the stuff, I have no use for it. He said, how well have you examined it? I said well enough to know that I don't know what it is. He said we would rather that you wouldn't talk much about it. KR = Kevin Randl, DS = Don Schmitt, BB = Bill Brazel. This is extracted from "UFO Crash at Roswell", pg 130-131. These events, according to the book, occurred in the summer of 1949, two *years* after the main Roswell events. ... so it would seen that somebody in the military was thinking about souvenir-hunters as well (and pretty thoroughly, to keep at it for 2 years), and taking actions to 'correct' it. Its clear from what Mr. Brazel said that he would have been coerced into giving up what he had found if he had not handed them over. (Why send up 4 people to do such a trivial task?) Curious, yes? Charles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: Date: 22 Jan 93 02:01:07 GMT References: <1993Jan20.070944.23587@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 28 unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes: Let's say they were testing MANNED balloons as a recon platform or to set an altitude record and something went wrong and the crew was killed. It would be very embarrassing public relations-wise if this go out. This sounds like a plausible reason for secrecy. ... not really. Manned balloons (as opposed to rigid airships) were used in the years before WWII for research, as part of a joint USAAC/National Geographic project (Explorer II reached 72,395 feet in 1935, for instance). Balloon experiments continued after WWII (in 1960, for instance, Captain Joseph Kittinger *jumped* from a balloon (with a parachute) from 102,800 feet as part of the aptly-named "Man High" program). The problem, for your assertion, is that we know about all this (we also know about 'skyhook', and the CIA's balloon-reconaissance program.) (I am also fairly certain that the balloon program had casualties, but cannot be sure with the references I have to hand.) If the military were going to keep such things secret, would they not have kept other such embarrasing things secret, like the YB-49 crash in June, 1948 (that killed Frank Edwards and 4 others)? Charles Source: Historical Dictionary of the US Air Force, Charles Bright, ed., Discover Channel documentary, "The Wing will Fly". Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!fort From: fort@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Bomber) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: weather Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:16:04 GMT Sender: bbs@draco.bison.mb.ca (BBS User) Organization: The Draco Unix System [BBS] Lines: 9 Out here in the GREAT WHITE NORTH,this datre the temp ia a balmy 8 above F.. no flood, no storms,,no avalanches,no nothing but great living.. s --- fort@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Bomber) The Draco Unix System [BBS] Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13667 alt.alien.visitors:12812 alt.religion.kibology:5909 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!oracle!unrepliable!bounce Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology From: mhill@spot.us.oracle.com (Mark Hill) Subject: Re: I'm back. In-Reply-To: kibo@world.std.com's message of 21 Jan 93 06:34:47 GMT Message-ID: Sender: usenet@oracle.us.oracle.com (Oracle News Poster) Nntp-Posting-Host: spot.us.oracle.com Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood City, CA References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <73949@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:25:08 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user at Oracle Corporation. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle. Lines: 12 In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: Oh no, he forgot to close the quote marks! That means that everything I'm typing here is actually part of what the sign said! Waah! I feel my copyright to this text slipping away! -- K." P.S. Hi, sillm. Thank you. mh Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12813 alt.religion.kibology:5913 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!ssd.intel.com!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.sex.masturbation,alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:36:14 GMT Lines: 6 In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >Title says it all really. "fucking wanker" is an oxymoron. -- K. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13670 alt.alien.visitors:12814 alt.religion.kibology:5915 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: I'm back. Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <73949@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 07:28:28 GMT Lines: 10 In article mhill@spot.us.oracle.com (Mark Hill) writes: > X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user > + at Oracle Corporation. The opinions expressed are those > + of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle. > >Thank you. How do I know it's really you? -- K. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner From: Andre.Eichner@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Anti-Gravity? Message-ID: <142040.2B5FA157@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 18 Jan 93 18:07:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ Lines: 31 Hello Robert! Tuesday January 12 1993, Robert K. Rouse writes to All: RKR> From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) RKR> Has you ever heard of this effect before? Is there a patent RKR> related to this? I read about in a book about new technology (Ventla-Verlag). RKR> Recently, Mr. Searl had (1987) a brush with authorities, when RKR> he began simply generating his own power for his own house. Now he RKR> doesn't have a very large house, but the Utility Board didn't like RKR> the fact that they had lost their monopoly. Now he lives in RKR> Birmingham under an assumed name. Simple, eh? What is your source of information? I've a very old source. Did you have the adress of Mr.Searl? I'm very interested for new informations about Searl. cheers Andre * Origin:FidoNet-Berlin, the light of the planet (2:2403/10) $EEN-BY: 107/816 241/6000 270/12 2403/10 16 2405/666 @PATH: 2403/10 2405/666 -- Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!bsrrg From: bsrrg@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: 7&^ IVO&^T Message-ID: <1993Jan22.120855.3009@dct.ac.uk> Date: 22 Jan 93 12:08:55 GMT Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 3 D(&C^R(C% $XO%*P&^(O*% (O*&^% (&659765 (&^%(^%(*%^$I&$I&IR&^RFKFGKHGJF&I%^$RE CI&^R CI&^RE I&^%$ CI&%^ CI^%I^&RKTDF(&) :TY*T!Q&^%$*O&F*$^%"&^%$*^&%$YRT&^%X*^%Z*&$%^Z&$%*%^*^X%$X*^%$* Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!olivea!pagesat!netsys!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!alpha.ces.cwru.edu!oldham From: oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: 7&^ IVO&^T Message-ID: <1jp4sfINN5nm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: 22 Jan 93 15:46:23 GMT Distribution: usa Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu >Article 12804 in alt.alien.visitors: >From: bsrrg@dct.ac.uk >Subject: 7&^ IVO&^T >Date: 22 Jan 93 12:08:55 GMT >Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology >Lines: 3 > >D(&C^R(C% $XO%*P&^(O*% (O*&^% (&659765 (&^%(^%(*%^$I&$I&IR&^RFKFGKHGJF&I%^$RE >CI&^R CI&^RE I&^%$ CI&%^ CI^%I^&RKTDF(&) >:TY*T!Q&^%$*O&F*$^%"&^%$*^&%$YRT&^%X*^%Z*&$%^Z&$%*%^*^X%$X*^%$* OK, Now that we have this cleared up we should move on with the current thread. Everything is find here in Cleveland. dano: Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13671 alt.alien.visitors:12818 sci.skeptic:37258 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: UFO Genius. Message-ID: <1993Jan22.140127.21202@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 29 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74027@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:01:27 GMT In article , jball@athena.cs.uga.edu (Bouncing Ball) writes: |>[Stuff deleted] |> |>>Source of Information: 26-Sun-December 22, 21992. |>>JW speaking. What do you think of that? |>>John Winston. |> |>John, could you be a little more specific about your source of |>information? This sounds interesting, but you didn't leave much of a |>clue as to where people could look this stuff up for themselves. |> If his sources are not "The Weekly World New" then it is his own dementia. Steve Food_for_the_Greys -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1993Jan20.070944.23587@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: 22 Jan 93 16:14:54 GMT Lines: 12 mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: > If the military were going to keep such things secret, would they >not have kept other such embarrasing things secret, like the YB-49 >crash in June, 1948 (that killed Frank Edwards and 4 others)? Uhhhh, I am pretty sure you meant to say GLEN Edwards. Frank Edwards wrote books on UFO's...... Duane Xref: icaen soc.culture.celtic:13794 soc.culture.british:34000 alt.alien.visitors:12820 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!fionn.lbl.gov!mike From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again. Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:47:42 GMT Organization: N.I.C.E. Lines: 35 Message-ID: <28578@dog.ee.lbl.gov> References: <1993Jan22.163945.22085@bristol.ac.uk> Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60 Summary: They are Everywhere Paul Smee writes: >based on ancestry. The fact of the matter is that there are few, if >any people in the world who can claim to be descended from the original >inhabitants of wherever they live. >To take NI as an example -- we have the 'Irish' Irish .... >a mere few hundred years ago. However, most of these 'Irish' Irish are >Gaels -- they didn't originate in Ireland, but rather invaded Ireland >from Scotland, taking over from the Picts, about 1000-1500 years ago. Sheesh -- You'd think people who'd like to wade in here with an argument would crack a book once in a while. I mean, everybody who is anybody in this here debate knows full well that the "Gaels" are the descendents of Space Aliens, as Whitley Strieber proved. Do your homework, pal! >So, by the same arguments they use, they don't belong there either, and >ought to move back to Scotland where they belong. >I'm not sure who they took over from. (The reason you don't hear much >about them is that they were completely wiped out by the Gaels. I >suppose there may be a lesson in this, but it's not a very pleasant I'll bet those Picts were space aliens too. Considering their legendary clothing style they just couldn't have been human. >This is NOT an attempt to justify the British handling of NI. Rather, Heck, no. >even further. All you end up with is more Bosnias. Someone is going >to have to make the breakthrough of figuring out a different way of >looking at these problems. ('Whoever holds it now gets it', which is How about, "convert everyone to Islam". Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!netcomsv!netcom.com!derich From: derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink) Subject: Re: 7&^ IVO&^T Message-ID: <1993Jan22.165146.29114@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Jan22.120855.3009@dct.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:51:46 GMT Lines: 14 bsrrg@dct.ac.uk writes: >D(&C^R(C% $XO%*P&^(O*% (O*&^% (&659765 (&^%(^%(*%^$I&$I&IR&^RFKFGKHGJF&I%^$RE >CI&^R CI&^RE I&^%$ CI&%^ CI^%I^&RKTDF(&) >:TY*T!Q&^%$*O&F*$^%"&^%$*^&%$YRT&^%X*^%Z*&$%^Z&$%*%^*^X%$X*^%$* omeone trnslate this., please? -- Scott Allen Steinbrink NetCom: Derich@netcom.com America Online: Derichman Bitnet: 11sstein%gallua.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13673 alt.alien.visitors:12822 sci.skeptic:37260 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bx711 From: bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: UFO Genius. Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:52:55 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1jpc9oINNbco@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74027@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, jball@athena.cs.uga.edu (Bouncing Ball) says: >John_-_Winston wrote: >>Source of Information: 26-Sun-December 22, 21992. ^^^^^ >>JW speaking. What do you think of that? >>John Winston. > >John, could you be a little more specific about your source of >information? This sounds interesting, but you didn't leave much of a >clue as to where people could look this stuff up for themselves. It won't do you any good trying to look it up. It won't be published for another twenty thousand years! ;-) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!netsys!ukma!cs.widener.edu!dsinc!satalink!ron.brandt From: ron.brandt@satalink.com (Ron Brandt) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: HAYES ULTRA 144 FOR SALE Message-ID: <8234.1028.uupcb@satalink.com> Date: 22 Jan 93 12:06:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434 Reply-To: ron.brandt@satalink.com (Ron Brandt) Lines: 28 Hayes External Ultra Smartmodem 14400 with V.32 bis for sale. ------------------------------------------------------------- Like New in original box with all manuals. Less than a year old. Has 1.5 years left on original warranty. 38,400 bps V-Series Smartmodem features: ---------------------------------------- Does 1650+ CPS on Compressed ZIP files 14,400, 12,000 and 7,200 Bps (CCIT V.32bis) 9,600 and 4,800 Bps (CCIT V.32) 9,600 and 4,800 Bps (Express 96) 2,400 bps (CCIT V.22bis) 1,200 bps (CCIT V.22 & 212A) 75/100 bps (CCIT V.23) Full CCIT V.42 and V.42bis compliant Dial up and leased line support. X.25 Pad Support (w/ ISDN Support) MNP 2-5 Error Control and Data Compression Recently upgraded to v1.2 ROMS. (12/92) $450.00 with FREE BLUE (2nd Day Air) shipping. We accept VISA/MASTERCARD with no surcharges. For more information call: Call 215-674-9290 x1110 during business hours or leave E-Mail Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!almac!andy.liddiard From: andy.liddiard@almac.co.uk (Andy Liddiard) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Message-ID: <2613.1785.uupcb@almac.co.uk> Date: 20 Jan 93 18:30:00 GMT Reply-To: andy.liddiard@almac.co.uk (Andy Liddiard) Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371 Lines: 20 You, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writ PN/* current topics. Flattery, it seems, will get you *everywhere* PN/* with the TV generation: tell them that they're intelligent and PN/* that they demonstrate this by watching your "intellectually PN/* stimulating" TV show and they'll tune in in droves. HA! 17 million Britons tune in to Cilla Black's _Blind Date_ every week. This is telling them they're shit-thick morons - and they love it. Nah, your theory is leaking. (Hang on, this is rec.couch.potato, right? What have you done with John Winston's alt.alien.visitors? It's was here yesterday....) Andy ~ london ~ uk andy.liddiard@almac.co.uk notes01@clstr.pnl.ac.uk --- . SLMR 2.1a #112 . Organism (n): Discrimination on the basis of organs. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460 Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:50:31 CST From: Message-ID: <93022.125031U37460@uicvm.uic.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: 7&^ IVO&^T References: <1993Jan22.120855.3009@dct.ac.uk> Lines: 8 In article <1993Jan22.120855.3009@dct.ac.uk>, bsrrg@dct.ac.uk says: > >D(&C^R(C% $XO%*P&^(O*% (O*&^% (&659765 (&^%(^%(*%^$I&$I&IR&^RFKFGKHGJF&I%^$RE >CI&^R CI&^RE I&^%$ CI&%^ CI^%I^&RKTDF(&) >:TY*T!Q&^%$*O&F*$^%"&^%$*^&%$YRT&^%X*^%Z*&$%^Z&$%*%^*^X%$X*^%$* I wholeheartedely agree! Ethan Haslett P.S. ^%O@#5 ^L83M% Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: Roswell Message-ID: <1993Jan22.181025.6780@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:10:25 GMT Lines: 122 From article , by billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson): > I like Roswell. It is close to the mountains, beautiful. > > The "facts" as I know them are : > > 1) Something crashed outside of Roswell. Witnesses thought > it was a plane or something. Hmmmm. Sounds like it might have been a plane. (surprise) > 2) Next day, Brazel carted stuff and filled up a shed. Called > the sheriff. Debris is spread out over a big area. Ok. One day has passed. If this was a USAF secret prototype crash, where are the AF types? Why aren't they here yet? > 3) Sheriff and Brazel call Air Force. Local Air Intellegence > Officer comes out. Base commander then releases a press > notice : "We have a flying saucer." He cleverly remembers to put his brandy flask under the desk before issuing a statement.... (conjecture) > 4) General Twining flies down, takes over. Local base > commander takes a "leave" immediately. If the USAF had known about this, they would have had the big guns there on the spot before Brazel could lay a finger on it. > 5) A B-29 is filled up with crates of stuff, flies off to > another base. Definitely strong indicator that whatever it was, it was *important*. > 6) Twining and ATIC guy cook up balloon story. Allow reporters > in the next day to look at balloon remains. Could easily be partly true. Could easily be entirely false. Probably is not wise to read anything into this one. > 7) Brazel is help incognito for three days, won't talk, says that > "They scared the shit out of me!" Yup. If I were a base commander, and was shown the wreckage of a Soviet Spy plane or something, and thought I would be smart and cover it up by shouting UFO, my superior officer would probably chew me up and spit me out. > 8) Air Force still refuses to talk about now. Not even mentioned in > Blue Book as a balloon. Well, it may not be that the *item* in particular was a secret, but that it's presence at that location and time may have implications that would be *severely* detrimental to somebody's reputation. (i.e. Soviet spy plane breaches all US security...) > > What can be gleaned from this? > > 1) Something crashed. The Air Force doesn't want us all to know. Yes. > 2) The Air Force STILL doesn't want us to know. (Almost 50 years > later). Yes. > 3) Many people have come forward to claim having seen "alien" stuff. This is not unusual in any circumstance and cannot be interpreted as anything approaching evidence. > 4) Goldwater, etc have been denied access to UFO files. He has been denied access to lots of stuff. > > It seems that several explanations are possible : > > 1) A secret aircraft crashed. I think this is unlikely. It has > been too long just for a secret plane. There may be many reasons why they don't want the story out. Case histories for other secret planes don't establish a precedent. I think this is by far the most likely explanation. > 2) An experiment involving people has gone wrong. Similar to the > Philadelphia thing. It has recently come to light that the > military tested soldiers in the gas chamber for toxicity to > unknown gasses. They still won't recognize soldiers who are now > having health problems. No records have been kept. Also possible, as that would be something for them to cover up. > 3) A radioactive device had a problem. Military won't acknowledge > it since it shows how irresponsible they are. (Typical) Really is a varation on 2). > 4) An alien craft crashed. Nothing to indicate this, really. Just a few short-lived testimonials from people who may not really have been in any position to know, or had the intelligence to assess that. > 5) Some other unknown thing happened. > > The easy explanation: Military thing, top secret, like the gassing. > The base commander explanation : UFO out of control, crashed. > My left-field idea: Aliens FAKED the crash to alert stupid nuclear > military that someone is watching. How 'bout it? > > -- > Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! > Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Just my .02 Cheers! -Max Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12827 talk.religion.newage:13675 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Northeast Ohio CE5 Working Group Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:09:03 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 39 Message-ID: <1jpgofINNebm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu *********************************************************************** NORTHEAST OHIO CE5 WORKING GROUP *********************************************************************** Description The Northeast Ohio CE5 Working Group is an organization that experiments with attempts at Close Encounters of the 5th kind. A CE5 is an encounter with extraterrestrial spacecraft or beings that is human initiated. CE5 groups utilize techniques such as Coherent Thought Sequencing, playback of special sound recordings, and powerful beams of light to attract spacecraft to an area. This is opposed to standard UFO investigational techniques, which usually concentrate on collecting information after an event has occurred. Past CE5 Successes The Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CSETI) is a CE5 group led by Dr. Steven Greer that has been successful in attracting and videotaping spacecraft, especially when the attempts have been made in known UFO wave areas. One such success occurred in Gulf Breeze, Florida in March 1992. Thirty three participants viewed the event, in which 3 spacecraft appeared to the group and responded to signals sent with high powered lights. There have also been less publicized CE5's that have occurred in Ohio. Northeast Ohio Activities Upcoming meetings of the Northeast Ohio CE5 Working Group will focus on learning and practicing CE5 techniques, as well as reviewing the experiences of existing CE5 groups. The group will then go "out into the field" on a regular basis and utilize their training in an attempt to engage actual extraterrestrial craft. Call for Participation If you are interested in participating in this activity, and live in the Northeast Ohio area, please reply by email. Comments from people outside the area are also welcomed. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!pagesat!netsys!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a7975 From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <19904@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 22 Jan 93 21:24:24 GMT Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 13 How dare you call ST:TNG and DS9 Lowbrow! You quasi-intellectuals piss me off. The greatest contribution to society you have ever made is probably the message that I am replying too. IF *you* don't watch TV then refrain from commenting on the above topic. I also find it quite rewarding that The Simpsons contributed to your decision to nix TV. You really must have a good sense of humour, a regular Jerry Steinfeld! (or do you know who he is?) Pissed off in B.C. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!pagesat!netsys!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a7975 From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <19905@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 22 Jan 93 21:30:44 GMT Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 5 Only an idiot would dare ask Kibo a trite question like that. Just who do you think you are anyway? I mean really. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!usenet From: kaypok@next11csc.wam.umd.edu (Dr. Who) Subject: looking for people who have had some sort of close encounter experienc Message-ID: <1993Jan22.235221.1343@wam.umd.edu> Followup-To: kaypok@wam.umd.edu Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: next11csc.wam.umd.edu Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:52:21 GMT Lines: 6 I live in the greater Washington D.C. metropolitan area and I especially want to contact people in my area who have had CE experiences. Thanks, Nathan Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!olivea!pagesat!netsys!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a8202 From: Susan_Tees@mindlink.bc.ca (Susan Tees) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: the universe Message-ID: <19910@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 22 Jan 93 23:54:10 GMT Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 2 Squeaky clean. Nothing is better than bbs'ing, and I am new on deck to. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!olivea!pagesat!netsys!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a8202 From: Susan_Tees@mindlink.bc.ca (Susan Tees) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ferengi..\Yeah Message-ID: <19911@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 22 Jan 93 23:56:59 GMT Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 3 What is all this about Deep Space Nine? I am astounded that you all watched that drawn-out show. I guess I did too. But I think I was drunk, so that makes it okay... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!csisun!jriley From: jriley@csisun.uucp (John Riley) Subject: What's the fuss? Message-ID: Organization: CompuSci, Inc Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:53:40 GMT Lines: 7 Does anyone have a sense for the probability of another sentient species traveling here? My intuition is that the chances are *extremely* low. Also, havya ever wondered why so many idiots, present company excepted of course, are preoccupied with the subjek? jjr Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help find adress. Message-ID: Date: 22 Jan 93 15:28:52 GMT References: Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 11 Nntp-Posting-Host: kin.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] JOHN-ARILD STRM (jas@stud.hsn.no) wrote: > Can someone find me the adresses to High-Schools in Kentucky. My sister goes > to school at one of them and I like to talk to her. I can use Email, netnews > and telnet. --Have you tried using Gopher? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: How do I kill a file? Message-ID: Date: 22 Jan 93 15:32:54 GMT Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 11 Nntp-Posting-Host: kin.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] --I think someone has asked this already, but I'll ask anyway. Is it possible to have a kill file on a UNIX so that I don't have to read any of John Winston's, Jack Sarfatti's and Peter Nelson's bollocks? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: 4D/life/Venus/etc Message-ID: <74185@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 18:09:44 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 6 Dear People: It was me that mentioned the 4th dimension. I'll try to look around and see if I can find some information on the subject. I do remember the story about the catapillar that looked up at the beautiful butterfly and said, "Boy you'll never catch me up in one of those things. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13678 alt.alien.visitors:12837 alt.religion.kibology:5944 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <74191@cup.portal.com> Date: 23 Jan 93 02:42:43 GMT References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Dear Folks: Teacher, teacher I go declair, I believe Tom is teling us a bit of truth. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13679 alt.alien.visitors:12838 sci.skeptic:37282 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <74192@cup.portal.com> Date: 23 Jan 93 02:45:46 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 5 Dear People: Someone asked for more information about becoming a Genius by being worked on by the people in the UFOs. That's all the information that has come my way at the present time. If I get more information I'll try to pass it on to you. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13680 alt.alien.visitors:12839 sci.skeptic:37284 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Paranormal Message-ID: <74195@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:16:10 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 27 Subject: How To Become A Para Normal Investigator. Someone has asked me how to become a paranormal inverstgator. Let's first define the term. It means a person who checks out things that are out of the ordinary or weird. A good example of a person who does this is Brad Steiger and his wife Sherry Hansen Steiger. I met Brad at a UFO convention that I was documenting summer before last in Phoenix, Ariz. I had already read many of his books like Star Seed and others. He not afraid of checking out about anything including UFOs, Trolls, Fairies, Elves and things even more bazar than that. To become a good investigator you first must have an open mind and be ready to dive into any investigation with great vigor. The first bit of good advice came from a good friend of mine by the name of Sister Thedra. I asked her advice as to what I should do many year ago when I first started in all of this and she said, "John now that you getting started in this my advice would be for you NOT TO DESIRE PHENOMENA BUT ONLY DESIRE TRUTH." By this she meant to not go around looking for a lot of ghosts and spirits because they will usually just lead you around because they want someone to listen to them. Next you should attempt to learn how to contact your higher self so that you will be led in what you are doing. You then should examine you motives and ask that you will be led to do the right thing and be defeated in doing anything that will not be to your higher good. There are many things that still have never been explained and people just continue to sweep them under the rug. One of them is spontaneous human combustion. If you ever figure out what causes that one let me know. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13681 alt.alien.visitors:12840 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Messages From UFOs. Message-ID: <74201@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:57:32 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 47 Subject: Messages From UFOs. Many people, including myself, read quite a bit of information that comes from the space people. A person by the name of Dr. R, Leo Sprinkle does a lot of writing about UFOs and here are some of his thoughts.....Friendly space aliens are using people as messengers to communicate with mankind and help guide us to a happy future, excited experts say. In fact, in throughly documented cases, 12 people have been videotaped relaying messages from extraterrestrials. "We are finding humans being used to transmit messages from space aliens," declared Dr. R. Leo Sprinkle, a prominent expert in the field of UFO phenomenon. Both Dr. Sprinkle, and Jiles Hamilton, a world famous hypnotist, have encountered eerie cases of aliens whose voices emerged from people under hypnosis. Hamilton, who has videotaped 12 "messengers" in action, said his first contact was made in 1978. "I hypnotized a woman who's famous for having been abducted twice by UFOs," he said. "During the session she began to speak in a different voice. I realized it was an alien. It told me, "We will lead you to our contacts on Earth." "Two days later a 40-year-old woman came in for hypnosis to help her pass an exam. While under hypnosis, her facial expression changed and she spoke with a gruff man's voice." "The alien, called Wolco, said his people progressed far beyond us to the point where they have no emotions-but he feels they lost something as a result." Another "messenger" was a tall, middle-aged steelworker. "He was an easygoing guy, but under hypnosis his voice changed to an almost impudent tone. The alien, who identified himself as Andrew, was opinionated and sarcastic. He told me, "You earthlings are on the verge of destroying yourselves. My superiors think they can help, but I don't know." "Andrew went on to tell me that many people lost in the Bermuda Triangle were picked up by his people and taken to their Planet." Dr. Sprinkkle noted the case of an Oregon grandmother. "When she's in a trance, this fellow Hweig speaks through her," he said. Her voice changes. Hweig says that UFO activity has two purposes - one to rejuvenate the Earth and the other to assist humankind in its evolutionary development. "The overriding theme of all these cases is that the aliens are trying to get friendly messages across." Hamilton agreed, "They want us to know they're interested in our welfare. They are most concerned with our materialistic attitudes, greed, jealousy and hate. "They say our planet has a short fuse for destruction unless we do an about-face. Source of Information: Weekly World News January 19, 1993. JW It seems like the space people are trying to tell us something. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.bbn.com!olivea!sgigate!sgiblab!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Dang it: well I'm back from vacation Message-ID: <1993Jan23.040850.9250@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 23 Jan 93 04:08:50 GMT Distribution: usa Organization: AT&T Lines: 8 Dear Ones of this dimension: well i'm back, but i still can't post. how did i post this. my space friends posted it for me from a ship orbiting just over Mt shasta. btw, i spilt some milk on the floor, gosh now i have to wipe it up. be seeing you real soon. me speaking now- bye Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12842 alt.religion.kibology:5947 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!walter!att-out!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Organization: AT&T Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:25:45 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan23.042545.9535@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Followup-To: alt.ufo.fienrds References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <73988@cup.portal.com> Lines: 8 In article <73988@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Folks: All is well in California. Mary said yous guys better get out og there! if you think she's kidding, watch the whether repofts. p.s. i have friends obriting over mt shasta that are ready to evaummate everyome up if they went. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Date: 23 Jan 1993 03:58:37 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1jqfpeINN3mq@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) says: > >Didn't we hear a while back about the guys who supposedly created all >these things as a joke and then video taped how they did it? Are crop >circles still actually believed to be made by aliens (I thought the guys >had enough proof otherwise)? > >Just asking..... I posted an article here about this not long ago, so I won't go into too much detail as I hate typing. Anyway one majour difference between the unexplained circles and the hoaxed ones, is that the hoaxed circles made by those two {their names escape me at the moment} had straw which was broken at the base due to their bending. Whereas the unexplained circles had straw which was bent in a nicely curved radius {no brakes}. Cheers Peter T. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!wsu-cs!cms.cc.wayne.edu!EIVERSO From: EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu Subject: Re: 7&^ IVO&^T (&#(*&J&*#$@% ;-)! ) Message-ID: <16B5E148CF.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> Sender: usenet@cs.wayne.edu (Usenet News) Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit MI U.S.A. References: <1993Jan22.120855.3009@dct.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:22:48 GMT Lines: 25 In article <1993Jan22.120855.3009@dct.ac.uk> bsrrg@dct.ac.uk writes: > >D(&C^R(C% $XO%*P&^(O*% (O*&^% (&659765 (&^%(^%(*%^$I&$I&IR&^RFKFGKHGJF&I%^$RE [...H.@!H% #^#FD%D%S^$#...] *#@HF*( HC!)*#%&F_#%*#&V C)#*%()#@(%* ;-) ;-) ;-) >CI&^R CI&^RE I&^%$ CI&%^ CI^%I^&RKTDF(&) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ C)(NC()^#%(^#@)N#B!!!! :( >:TY*T!Q&^%$*O&F*$^%"&^%$*^&%$YRT&^%X*^%Z*&$%^Z&$%*%^*^X%$X*^%$* R0TFL!! ^T%G*GD&D&GHCH QD^S&@#$#@&YDHU$*& *&#HFEH*D DHV*(YD*HD*H!!! :-P Newbie! --Eric eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu "I(*#@&$& #$* # FN%#$^D ^#%$E Detroit, Michigan USA JHD()#*HF*F HFD&*#$^*&FD(&" Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13682 alt.alien.visitors:12845 alt.religion.kibology:5949 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: I'm back. Organization: AT&T Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:36:08 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan23.043608.9776@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Followup-To: alt.hoops.jersey References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <73949@cup.portal.com> Lines: 24 In article , kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: > In article <73949@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >Dear Everbody: I just got back on the Net. It's sort of like the sign > >they had out in front of the psychic's convention that said, "Cancelled > >due to unforseen difficulties. I'll catch up with you people later. > >John Winston. > > Oh no, he forgot to close the quote marks! That means that everything > I'm typing here is actually part of what the sign said! Waah! I feel > my copyright to this text slipping away! > Thanks alot. the law of quotes stipulates that you must end the starting quote with an ending quote without skipping a line. notice how you skipped a line and placed the end quote on your K sig. as i was reading, i got trapped in between the quotes and was forced to write this. please be careful out there. now your K should catch me 'cause i'm not going to leave a blank line- > -- K." > > P.S. Hi, sillm. > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!walter!att-out!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: Smoking Organization: AT&T Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:46:29 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan23.044629.9990@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Followup-To: alt.second.rat.smoke References: <1j2cntINN2g5@zikzak.apana.org.au> <74028@cup.portal.com> Lines: 12 In article <74028@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Folks: I agree with Jean that too much smoking of Ziggurates is > bad for you. "not only that but 2nd hand smoke too. these scientists of the government put these rats in a clear plastic box and blew smoke in there all the time. the rats died in every experiment, so they released their report to the press of the dangers of exposuref to 2nd hand smoke. i don't know what this has to do with aliens but i heard the aliens got the americans hooked on tobacco. " Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uunet!walter!att-out!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: John Winston club Organization: AT&T Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:54:24 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan23.045424.10228@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Keywords: support Lines: 9 i don't know about you guys but i look up to John even though I rib him sometimes. he has expanded my mind in some ways? what;s the difference, you say plate-ians i say setorn-ians but they all grow from the same group of vegetable-matter. btw, anyone catch the latest Telly Savalis video where he captures space alien channelers on film while they are channeling. Very interrestink, but schtupit. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: 7&^ IVO&^T Organization: AT&T Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:24:59 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan23.052459.10813@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> References: <1993Jan22.120855.3009@dct.ac.uk> <1993Jan22.165146.29114@netcom.com> Lines: 28 In article <1993Jan22.165146.29114@netcom.com>, derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink) writes: > bsrrg@dct.ac.uk writes: > > >D(&C^R(C% $XO%*P&^(O*% (O*&^% (&659765 (&^%(^%(*%^$I&$I&IR&^RFKFGKHGJF&I%^$RE > >CI&^R CI&^RE I&^%$ CI&%^ CI^%I^&RKTDF(&) > >:TY*T!Q&^%$*O&F*$^%"&^%$*^&%$YRT&^%X*^%Z*&$%^Z&$%*%^*^X%$X*^%$* > > omeone trnslate this., please? > i'll give it a crack. it's an ancient zaemphian greeting. if you bracket[>D(&C^R(C% $XO%*P&^(O*% (O*&^% (&659765 (&^%(^%(*%^$I&$I&] this means hello, but it can mean butterbread too, but that wouldn't make much sense in this context. this says [$I&IR&^RFKFGKHGJF&I%^$RECI&^R CI&^RE I&^%$ CI&%^ CI^%I^&RKTDF(&)] we are planning a visit soon, or it could mean corn grits corn grits, but the same applies in the context. here we have [:TY*T!Q&^%$*O&F*$^%"&^%$*^&%$YRT&^%X*^%Z*&$%^Z&$%*%^*^X%$X*^%$*] is gas still 20 cents per gallon, over. or an alternate meaning is gutterbum gutterbum, apply context as same. hope this helps. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!ach From: ach@unislc.uucp (Andy Hutton) Subject: Is Strieber still around? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] Message-ID: <1993Jan23.053407.22691@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:34:07 GMT Lines: 28 Has anyone heard from W. Strieber lately? The last thing I'd seen from him he apparently thumbed his nose at the whole UFO community and retired. Even though he was still claiming some high-level contacts with his 'visitors'. Cryptically, he stated he would still be willing to correspond with those who had written him previously. Maybe he finally experienced the *BIG* ab- duction! It would be nice if he would stay in touch with the rest of us. One thing we should try to keep is an open mind (and strict honesty) when dealing with a subject as complex as UFO's. The dividing line between objective reality and perception is very fuzzy in unusual situations like those reported by Strieber. Were his experiences actually UFO related? Or maybe that was merely the spin he was forced to apply to allow some rational interpretation of what happened to him. I do not subscribe to the claim that he was a bald faced liar or that he was crazy. I know many would say that money was his motivation, but why would he pick such a farfetched subject and swear he was telling the truth? He couldn't have known that COMMUNION was going to be a bestseller when he wrote it. Instead I feel that what he wrote was a desperate attempt to relate to the rest of the world something that was impossible for him to keep to himself. In any case, it would seem that given the intensity of his convictions I don't think he has dropped out as completely as he would have us believe ... FRANK B. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Watchers --- BOOK! Message-ID: <8JeXXB1w165w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 03:22:31 CST Organization: System 6626 BBS, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Lines: 5 I'm reading a book called "The Watchers - The Secret Design Behind UFO Abduction", by Raymond E. Fowler. I would like to know peoples views on this book. I'm on chapter 9, and it is EXTREMELY fascinating! Titan Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!psgrain!m2xenix!agora!robart From: robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Message-ID: Organization: a gora References: <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> <1jqfpeINN3mq@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1jsbgqINN8c1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Distribution: world Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:29:54 GMT Lines: 4 Crop circles are fake. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!alpha.ces.cwru.edu!oldham From: oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Moon surface: No ETs Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:49:16 GMT Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University Lines: 6 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <1k0ulcINN2m7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu After watching the NASA tapes on the apollo missions to the moon there is one thing that really stands out. The surface of the moon has very little erosion and the impact craters are billions of years old. The tracks left by the astronauts will be there for millions of years and yet they did not see any evidents of other tracks. This can lead to the conculsion that any ETs skipped over the moon or any landing marks have not been found. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13700 alt.alien.visitors:12901 sci.skeptic:37351 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov!redd From: redd@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Dale Redd -- MP-6 Operations) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <25JAN199307512015@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74192@cup.portal.com> Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:51:00 GMT Lines: 13 In article <74192@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >Dear People: Someone asked for more information about becoming a Genius >by being worked on by the people in the UFOs. That's all the information >that has come my way at the present time. If I get more information >I'll try to pass it on to you. >John Winston. John, I've been away since December 3rd, and you just can't imagine how happy I am that you're still posting to the net. 1993 is saved for me already! Dale Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: the universe Message-ID: <74326@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 07:48:34 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 4 Welcome To One And All: I believe you will find that this group of people covers the whole spectrum of different kinds of people So enjoy yourself. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker Message-ID: <74327@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 07:59:53 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <79720002@teecs.UUCP> Lines: 4 Dear Everybody: I am listening to all of your comments. Thanks to Andrew for his good words, and I believe Press2 may win some sort of award for his come-backs to my postings. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: 4D/life/Venus/etc Message-ID: <74328@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 08:10:56 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 10 Dear People: I still haven't come up with any information on the 4th dimension but I am impressed that you (Chris) are aware of what an old soul is. Many people meet my wife and after being around her for a while realize that she is an old soul. As far as the 4th dimension is concerned it appears that the human body consists of about 5 or more different bodies. When we get rid of our ego then we can go into the 4th dimension. Some people are already talking about going into the 5th dimension now. At least that is what the Sasquatch are trying to tell us now, but most people don't believe Sasquatch anyway. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What's the fuss? Message-ID: <74329@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 08:20:26 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1993Jan23.172749.29895@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: I'm not for sure that I understand the question properly. Maybe you can restate it in another way. Rod seems to think I should attempt to answer your question. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dang it: well I'm back from vacation Message-ID: <74331@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 08:28:13 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: usa References: <1993Jan23.040850.9250@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Lines: 3 Dear Earth People: Well I think there is now a clone of me running around and it's Mr. Press2. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!a2i!pagesat!netsys!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a7975 From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) Subject: Re: Mom and Bigfoot. Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:19:16 GMT Message-ID: <20026@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Lines: 15 John (Enquiring minds want to know) Winston if I wanted to read the Enquirer, The World, The Star or any other magazine that publishes things like Madonnas breasts found on Mars I would go grocery shopping like everyone else and stand in a long lineup and hope the little old ladies in front of me were paying by cheque! -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ "Who is it Dear? Oh it's a quaint little man from the village...something about the reaping." Don't fear the Reaper, fear your government. Question Authority before Authority questions you! Have a nice day! krusty@outb.wimsey.bc.ca ******************************************************* Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13702 alt.alien.visitors:12908 alt.religion.kibology:5991 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <74332@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 09:43:20 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 75 1>+F !Subject: UFO Fix. Are you not feeling well? Do you have the jake-leg, hammer toes or piles? Well then all you have to do is go and jump on a flying saucer and they will fix you up good. Now let me tell you a story about a guy that really got fixed up by the space people......An injured hunter thought he was stuck when he stumbled into a rocky ravine, but his life was saved by UFO doctores who whisked him up into their space ship - and performed hip replacement surgery on him! Tough-talking Texan Randy Meyers says the best part of his bizarre encounter is the free surgery. "I've had a bad hip my whole life, but now I can walk, run and even dance without any pain at all," says the 47-year-old loner. "I probubly would have died out there in the woods if that UFO hadn't come along when it did. Yes I was scared." "But those guys took good care of me. I never felt a thing even when they were opening up my skin and polking around inside me." Randy's accident occurred near Alpine, Texas. the fall left him crippled for several hours until the UFO showed up and beameed him inside. Randy says his rescuers all looked exactly alike. Each had a big round head and not a single stand of hair. Their smooth flesh had a bluish tint to it. And they each stood about an even five feet tall. Randy says his bigheaded hosts sprayed him with a misty substance that left him feeling totally numb. He then watched with a mixture of curiousity and fear as they used a laser-like light to slit open his upper right leg. "They were talking in this funny kind of voice - sort of an electronic sounding, high-pitched squeal," says Randy. "They had me propped up so I could see them removing my thigh bone." "I was afraid they were going to lop off my leg and leave me that way, but then one of the creatures came up with a shiny metal replacement in his hands. "They slipped it right inside me, then waved a few devices over my hip and the whole thing healed up perfectly. It was the most amazing thing I've ever seen." The alien surgeons then lifted Randy up onto his feet and forced him to walk. The worried woodsman took a tenative step and was stunned when he felt no pain. In fact, he was surprised to find that all the cuts and bruises he suffered in the fall had miraculously healed. "I don't know how they did it, but those guys fixed me up properly and then deposited me back down on the ground - right next to my car," says Randy. "I'd been trudging through the woods looking of that car for over half a day before I fell. "I never told the aliens where it was. They just seemed to know. Come to think of it. I didn't say a word the whole time I was in that UFO. "Yet, the aliens seemed to know what I was thinking. And I pretty much understood them even though they didn't speak English." X-rays clearly show there is a metallic hip replacement inside Randy. But there is no surgical scar to show how it got there! Doctors want to perform further tests on Randy and maybe even open him up to inspect the hip handiwork. But Randy wants no part of earth-bound medicine ever again. "Those aliens are light years ahead of us in technique," he says. "I feel better than I ever have and I'm not about to let doctors here work on me and screw things up. I'm glad they found me as I'm sure I would've died without their help." Source of Information: January 5, 1993-SUN-page 23. JW. So there you have it folks. Would a Texan lie? John Winston. hen he stumbled into a rocky ravine, but his life was saveFwF BAmTWKP ^N/O3 ,.T T G | 1@BDFHN/O 3 ,.T 0Roman 10cpi UFO hadn't come along when it did. Yes I was scared." "But those guys took good care of me. I never felt Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: My researches with UFOs and Diamagnetism Message-ID: <1993Jan25.171559.25456@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 25 Jan 93 20:15:15 GMT References: <1993Jan23.083941.185574@zeus.calpoly.edu> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 13 In article <1993Jan23.083941.185574@zeus.calpoly.edu>, atemps@zax.acs.calpoly.edu (A Richard Temps) writes... >OK now... the book that really gave me a big clue as to how they might work >is an old 1970 book entitled 'Diamagnetism and UFOs', by some professor >Burt. In short he proposed a new theory to account for the behaviour of >electrons and protons with regards to diamagnetism................... > - Richard Temps > atemps@zax.calpoly.edu Given that all the above handwaving actually works, how did they get here? There's no mass out in space to be repulsed by the alleged force. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: Government coverups Message-ID: <1993Jan25.173337.25830@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1jspk2INN12p@zikzak.apana.org.au> Date: 25 JAN 93 12:27:09 Lines: 50 In article <1jspk2INN12p@zikzak.apana.org.au>, zik@zikzak.apana.org.au (Michael Saleeba) writes... >billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: >> 1) Something crashed. The Air Force doesn't want us all to know. >> 2) The Air Force STILL doesn't want us to know. (Almost 50 years >> later). > >You see this sort of thing again and again, particularly in >alt.alien.visitors - wild claims that the government or some part of >it is trying to cover up information about UFOs. Now there's something >about all this that doesn't ring true for me at all. WHY? I mean, >what's the point? What do they stand to gain by covering it all up? It >must cost them a lot of effort, so they'd have to have a pretty darn >good reason to do it. -Begin included text- From an article about Barry Goldwater, published in The New Yorker magazine, April 25, 1988. Goldwater is quoted: I used to receive a hundred calls a year from people who wanted me to get into the Green Room at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, because that's where the Air Force stored all the material on UFOs. I once asked General Curtis LeMay if I could get into that room, and he just gave me holy hell. He said, "Not only can't you get into it but don't you ever mention it to me again." Now, with millions of planets that we know are up there, it's hard for me to believe that ours is the only goddamn one that has things that can think walking around on it. So when people tell me they've seen UFOs, I don't say they haven't. In fifteen thousand hours of flying, I've never seen one, but I've talked to pilots who have. I talked to an airline crew that swore up and down that an object came along side of them one night, and before they could do anything it vanished. We lost a military pilot who went up to intercept strange lights and never came back. His airplane disappeared, too. I won't argue for or against. Goldwater was both chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a general in the Air Force Reserve. -End included text- It might be interesting for someone to publicly claim they've been to Roswell recently, and found a piece of the wreckage. Just to see if the military is still interested. As far as "why are they covering up what they know?", who knows? They have their reasons I'm sure, but our speculation is worthless. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!pacbell.com!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!amdcad!amdint.amd.com!mozart!billp From: billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: probes Message-ID: Date: 25 Jan 93 16:22:48 GMT Sender: usenet@amd.com Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Lines: 22 The biggest argument used against UFO's and aliens is that we are so far from any other planets. We cannot even see other planets for sure. Of course, we think that all main sequence stars should have planets. But no proof. What if we lived closer to the center of our galaxy? There would be many stars within a light-year or so. With our current technology, I'll bet we could see proof of other planets all around. What is the first thing we do when investigating other bodies? (Planets I mean :) We send a probe. If we lived amidst many other planets, we might even detect atmospheres. Any oxygen planet would be of special interest. Perhaps the vast majority of UFO sightings are due to unmanned probes sent out long ago. Any probe finding an oxygen planet (therefore life as we know it) would send back data. Eventually someone might come see, probably a stuffy old anthropologist or something. That explains why we haven't seen them yet. They're shy. -- Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13703 alt.alien.visitors:12912 sci.skeptic:37355 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:09:49 GMT References: <01050133.o78qbm@distant.uucp> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 41 In article <01050133.o78qbm@distant.uucp> edw@distant.uucp writes: > >In article (talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic), serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >> >> > isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these >> > themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such >> > diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the >> > Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th >> > and 20th century literature, including important works of science >> > fiction! >> >If Peter didn't mention the Bible, I would have thought that he was a victim >of Ayn Rand. The Simpsons comment is what got me really wondering. I personally >think that the Simpsons is one of the best shows on television. Things such >as mob behavior and the hypocrisy of most of society's inhabitants are constant >sources of material in the show. Yes I agree they (and ST:NG) are *inspired* by important themes -- nobody could deny that. My complaint is that they don't do anything with these ideas that isn't obvious, simple, and comprehensible to a mass audience who doesn't want to spend any time thinking about "hard" subjects. > The show could easily be called "Young Friedrich Nietzsche in Late > Twentieth Century Suburbia." I would say it's a comic-book or Weekly-Reader treatment of these topics. To me there's no complexity or depth to their treatment of these things; everything is laid out in graphic simplicity. >There is so much depth and texture to the show you truly get out of it > what you put in in terms of the effort you exert in watching it. I think what's happening is that you're getting out of it MORE than what the writers originally put in. The "meaning" of the content is coming from inside your, kind of like a video Rorshach (sp?) test. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!morale From: morale@jec306.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: jec306.its.rpi.edu References: <19904@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:11:32 GMT Lines: 20 Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) writes: >How dare you call ST:TNG and DS9 Lowbrow! >You quasi-intellectuals piss me off. >The greatest contribution to society you have ever made is probably the >message that I am replying too. IF *you* don't watch TV then refrain from >commenting on the above topic. >I also find it quite rewarding that The Simpsons contributed to your decision >to nix TV. You really must have a good sense of humour, a regular Jerry >Steinfeld! (or do you know who he is?) >Pissed off in B.C. You tell him!!! Cheering from N.Y. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!ccsua.ctstateu.edu!parys From: parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Message-ID: <1993Jan25.141633.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> Lines: 33 Sender: news@cs.yale.edu (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: ccsua.ctstateu.edu Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT References: <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> <1jqfpeINN3mq@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1jsbgqINN8c1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:16:33 GMT In article <1jsbgqINN8c1@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, drwho@edwards.WPI.EDU (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) writes: > In article <1jqfpeINN3mq@zikzak.apana.org.au> petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) writes: >>I posted an article here about this not long ago, so I won't go into >>too much detail as I hate typing. Anyway one majour difference >>between the unexplained circles and the hoaxed ones, is that the >>hoaxed circles made by those two {their names escape me at the moment >>had straw which was broken at the base due to their bending. Whereas >>the unexplained circles had straw which was bent in a nicely curved >>radius {no brakes}. > >>Cheers >>Peter T. > > A crop circle researcher (I can't remember his name-- he has posted a > few reports of his investigations to this newsgroup) mentioned that, > by simply walikng around in a circle, he and a colleague were able to > reproduce a typical simple crop formation. The trampled stalks were > *not* broken, just bent. So apparently, some plants break when > trampled, and some just bend. So would everybody *please* stop > insisting that unbroken stalks are unnatural? We have enough trouble > sorting through the facts as it is without these distracting little > falsehoods about details. > > --E.V.L. (drwho@wpi.wpi.edu) # "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you see > a.k.a.: The Eternal Newbie, # before you a killer, and of the worst kind. > The Amazing Tubeman!, # Madonna." > Murphy's Law Incarnate # --Commercial for the movie "Body of Evidence" > Any similarities between what I say and what I mean are purely coincidental. Never mind kibo....who is Winston? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13704 alt.alien.visitors:12915 alt.religion.kibology:5994 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!phoenix.oulu.fi!mpajula From: mpajula@phoenix.oulu.fi (Marketta Pajula) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <1993Jan25.190529.25539@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Organization: University of Oulu, Finland X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: <74332@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:05:29 GMT Lines: 6 When I was in Peru, I heard same kind of stories. F.e. humanoids took a boy in their ufo and fixed his broken arm in few minits. O.Pajula. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13705 alt.alien.visitors:12916 sci.skeptic:37363 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!umn.edu!psci10.polisci.umn.edu!serb From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Date: 25 Jan 93 20:11:25 GMT Article-I.D.: polisci.serb.358 References: <01050133.o78qbm@distant.uucp> Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: psci10.polisci.umn.edu In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > I think what's happening is that you're getting out of it MORE > than what the writers originally put in. The "meaning" of the > content is coming from inside your, kind of like a video Rorshach > (sp?) test. But isn't there value in that? Doesn't the writing have to be somewhat inspired in order to motivate the kinds of discussions and ideas people have when they see these shows? I'm a big theater fan, and I find that "simplistic" plays seem sometimes to be the most interesting because they rely on the intelligence/thoughtfulness of the spectator to make them complete. I don't think anyone says that drama can REPLACE scientific and philosophical analyses, but it can sometimes take abstract views and put them in a daily life situation. I agree it's up to us to react and participate intelligently; many ST:NG and Simpsons viewers probably don't do that. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!news From: LB.KSD@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University References: Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:50:54 GMT Lines: 50 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >In article <01050133.o78qbm@distant.uucp> edw@distant.uucp writes: >> >>In article (talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic), serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >>> >>> > isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these >>> > themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such >>> > diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the >>> > Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th >>> > and 20th century literature, including important works of science >>> > fiction! >>> >>If Peter didn't mention the Bible, I would have thought that he was a victim >>of Ayn Rand. The Simpsons comment is what got me really wondering. I personally >>think that the Simpsons is one of the best shows on television. Things such >>as mob behavior and the hypocrisy of most of society's inhabitants are constant >>sources of material in the show. > > Yes I agree they (and ST:NG) are *inspired* by important themes -- > nobody could deny that. My complaint is that they don't do anything > with these ideas that isn't obvious, simple, and comprehensible to > a mass audience who doesn't want to spend any time thinking about > "hard" subjects. > >> The show could easily be called "Young Friedrich Nietzsche in Late >> Twentieth Century Suburbia." > > I would say it's a comic-book or Weekly-Reader treatment of these > topics. To me there's no complexity or depth to their treatment > of these things; everything is laid out in graphic simplicity. > >>There is so much depth and texture to the show you truly get out of it >> what you put in in terms of the effort you exert in watching it. > > I think what's happening is that you're getting out of it MORE > than what the writers originally put in. The "meaning" of the > content is coming from inside your, kind of like a video Rorshach > (sp?) test. > > >---peter > I think you might be passing judgement on a show you have watched very little. If you don't like it, don't watch it. --- Kerry Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13706 alt.alien.visitors:12918 sci.skeptic:37364 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!cochiti.lanl.gov!jlg From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) Subject: Re: Paranormal Message-ID: <1993Jan25.194610.15732@newshost.lanl.gov> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74195@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:46:10 GMT Lines: 27 In article <74195@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> [...] |> There are many things that still have never been explained and people just |> continue to sweep them under the rug. [...] To conclude that there is not adequate evidence upon which to base any conclusions is *not* the same as to "sweep them under the rug." For most paranormal subjects, there is not even enough evidence to conclude that there really *IS* a phenomenon - much less is there sufficient evidence for analysis of properties and/or causes of the phenomenon. Note: *evidence* is defined as information which can be acquired by any *independent* investigator without reliance on faulty (and possibly biased) "witnesses" whose claims are purely anecdotal. |> [...] One of them is spontaneous human |> combustion. If you ever figure out what causes that one let me know. Find me even *one* case in which it can be determined independently that 1) someone has really burned and 2) there were no mundane causes of combustion present - then, and only then, will you even *have* a phenomenon to study. You can't study something whose very existence you can't even verify. -- J. Giles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13707 alt.alien.visitors:12919 sci.skeptic:37366 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!cochiti.lanl.gov!jlg From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) Subject: Re: Appropriate news groups (was: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.) Message-ID: <1993Jan25.200153.17793@newshost.lanl.gov> Followup-To: arlt.flame Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory References: <1993Jan21.185226.15928@newshost.lanl.gov> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:01:53 GMT Lines: 24 In article , system@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us (Kalki Dasa) writes: |> jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) writes: |> |> > The major problem is not inappropriate subjects (which will die |> > out if they really aren't of common interest). The real problem |> > is cross-posting. |> |> So, why was this article cross-posted to four different newsgroups, |> then? I'll have to admit to being lazy (and also to wanting all who saw the original article to see my reply as well). As a matter of fact, I didn't cross-post. I merely replied to a subject thread which was alreayd cross-posted. In fact, I only read sci.skeptic of all the above newsgroups. Sorry for the cross-post - all followups to this are directed to alt.flame (which is, as far as I'm concerned, the same as /dev/null). And you're right, I should have redirected the previous article. I'm only cross posting now to inform everyone that this is indeed the last they will see (at least from me) on this thread. -- J. Giles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!mausoof From: mausoof@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Message-ID: <1993Jan25.153917.46750@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: 25 Jan 93 15:39:16 CST Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Lines: 14 In this ongoing debate over the quality of programs on networks, I have to agree with all and differ with none. But still I have to post, here are my reasons for not being addicted to Star Trek. 1) The story starts expanding slowly and by the last ten minutes it has become rather interesting(sometimes). Voila, someone comes up with a brilliant solution, presses afew buttons and the show is over. 2) All the aliens are humanoids, why do they have to have two legs and two arms and shit on their face. 3) Picard trys to hard to be Sean Connery. 4) No real suspense, it has just become a sort of noveaux techno sort of think. I watch Start Trek. Therefore, I must be smart. But I admit that sometimes they explore issues with a lot more insight, and the graphics are pretty good to. Most of my freinds are Trekkies, but I would rather watch Batman The Animated Series. Now that is pure entertainement. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13708 alt.alien.visitors:12921 sci.skeptic:37371 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!udel!gatech!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:50:02 GMT References: <01050133.o78qbm@distant.uucp> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 38 In article serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > >> I think what's happening is that you're getting out of it MORE >> than what the writers originally put in. The "meaning" of the >> content is coming from inside your, kind of like a video Rorshach >> (sp?) test. > >But isn't there value in that? Doesn't the writing have to be somewhat >inspired in order to motivate the kinds of discussions and ideas people have >when they see these shows? I don't know -- intelligent people can "see the universe in a drop of dew", but this doesn't say anything in particular about the drop of dew. There is a well-known standup comedian (Howie Mandell?) who has a routine involving Bazooka Joe (of bubble gum comic fame) and his friend, whose name escapes me at the moment - In the first panel Bazooka Joe throws a clock out the window. His friend asks, "Why did you throw that clock out the Window, Bazooka Joe?" And Bazooka Joe says, "Because I wanted to see time fly." (Audience titters - comedian continues:) "Time, Bazooka Joe? Isn't that a rather ethereal concept? . . . " -- and continues in this new vein for several more lines elevating Bazooka Joe and his friends to higher philosophical status than the bubble-gum company ever imagined. Using your line of reasoning, one could probably find a starting off point for a perfectly intelligent discussion in Lost In Space, Gilligan's Island, or even a Usenet posting. But this is not to say that these things are, in and of themselves, intelligently thought out, insightful, or cogent -- only that some theme, plot element, or phrase inspired or stimulated actual thought on the part of a viewer. ---peter Xref: icaen alt.sex.masturbation:1141 alt.religion.kibology:5999 alt.alien.visitors:12922 Newsgroups: alt.sex.masturbation,alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utzoo!censor!comspec!cspace!neuro From: neuro@cspace.comspec.com (Neuromancer) Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker Organization: Cyberspace Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:01:11 GMT Message-ID: References: Lines: 19 In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >>Title says it all really. > >"fucking wanker" is an oxymoron. > > -- K. So is John_-_Winston (note correct spelling), so the original statement is correct. Neuromancer {the uncontested @ibo} -- --------------------- All comments and opinions are my own -------------------- Bryan Fullerton aka Neuromancer Computer Variables, Inc neuro@cspace.comspec.com 155 East Beaver Creek, Unit 27 uunet.ca!comspec!cspace!neuro Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada L4B 2N2 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13709 alt.alien.visitors:12923 sci.skeptic:37374 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Paranormal Message-ID: Sender: news@cs.uiuc.edu Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74195@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan25.194610.15732@newshost.lanl.gov> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:50:43 GMT Lines: 73 In article <1993Jan25.194610.15732@newshost.lanl.gov>, jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) writes in part: |> In article <74195@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> |> [...] |> |> There are many things that still have never been explained and people just |> |> continue to sweep them under the rug. [...] |> |> [...] One of them is spontaneous human |> |> combustion. If you ever figure out what causes that one let me know. |> You can't study something whose very existence |> you can't even verify. Well, actually folklorists do it all the time. And the analogy is HIGHLY relevant: folk beliefs and stories have meanings, purposes, and existance that has nothing at all to do with claims of "scientific" or "rational" existence. Persistent claims of paranormal phenomena, such as, SHC, and persistent claims that these wonders are "being swept under the rug" DEFINITELY mean SOMETHING. I hestiate to theorize exactly what these beliefs might mean, but I do not think they are necessarily claims about either science or "reality". Anyway, these claims CAN be studied, at least if you treat them as folk traditions and act accordingly. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Path: cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Distribution: world Followup-To: References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74195@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan25.194610.15732@newshost.lanl.gov> From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science Subject: Re: Paranormal Keywords: In article <1993Jan25.194610.15732@newshost.lanl.gov>, jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) writes: |> In article <74195@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> |> [...] |> |> There are many things that still have never been explained and people just |> |> continue to sweep them under the rug. [...] |> |> To conclude that there is not adequate evidence upon which to base |> any conclusions is *not* the same as to "sweep them under the rug." |> For most paranormal subjects, there is not even enough evidence to |> conclude that there really *IS* a phenomenon - much less is there |> sufficient evidence for analysis of properties and/or causes of the |> phenomenon. |> |> Note: *evidence* is defined as information which can be acquired by |> any *independent* investigator without reliance on faulty (and possibly |> biased) "witnesses" whose claims are purely anecdotal. |> |> |> [...] One of them is spontaneous human |> |> combustion. If you ever figure out what causes that one let me know. |> |> Find me even *one* case in which it can be determined independently |> that 1) someone has really burned and 2) there were no mundane causes |> of combustion present - then, and only then, will you even *have* |> a phenomenon to study. You can't study something whose very existence |> you can't even verify. |> |> -- |> J. Giles -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!purplehaze!geoffm From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Date: 25 Jan 1993 23:05:16 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca. Lines: 42 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1k1rncINN66@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> References: <19904@mindlink.bc.ca> Reply-To: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) writes: >How dare you call ST:TNG and DS9 Lowbrow! >You quasi-intellectuals piss me off. That's an interesting reaction. Why would you take it so personally that somebody criticized a couple of television shows you happen to like? Does that somehow impair your ability to enjoy these shows? If so, why? If not, then why do you care what anyone else thinks about them? >The greatest contribution to society you have ever made is probably the >message that I am replying too. What does that have to do with the topic at hand? That's a fallacious statement; it's known in educated circles as an ad hominem attack, and it doesn't prove a thing. Someone's not being a cultural giant himself doesn't mean he's forfeited all right to comment on cultural matters. Your apparent beliefs to the contrary don't put you in a very good light. >I also find it quite rewarding that The Simpsons contributed to your >decision to nix TV. You really must have a good sense of humour, a >regular Jerry Steinfeld! You've got a lot of respect for differing tastes in televised entertainment, don't you? Come back when you've reached puberty. Geoff -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Geoff Miller + + + + + + + + Sun Microsystems geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM + + + + + + + + Menlo Park, California -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:6004 alt.alien.visitors:12925 Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!batcomputer!db.TC.Cornell.EDU!mdw From: mdw@db.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) Subject: Re: Help me name my cat Message-ID: <1993Jan26.020334.8722@tc.cornell.edu> Keywords: EMACS, John_-_Winston.el, GNU Public License Sender: news@tc.cornell.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: db.tc.cornell.edu Organization: Linux References: <1993Jan25.194006.29754@tc.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:03:34 GMT Lines: 31 In article bediger@teal.csn.org (Bruce Ediger) writes: >In article <1993Jan25.194006.29754@tc.cornell.edu> mdw@db.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes: > >Under the Terms of the GNU Public License, Matt_-_Welsh will be posting >"John_-_Winston.el" immediately. This is notable, as it is the 2nd >attempt at "Artificial Unintelligence" (c.f. "kibologize.el") written >in Emacs lisp. > >A hearty round of applause for Mr Welsh's public spirited programming, please. Piece o' cake. Anything I can do to better the efforts of the GNU people, the pleasure is all mine, this is John_-_Winston.el: ;; john_-_winston by Matt Welsh ;; This function comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, but I hope that you ;; like it and use it often. (defun john_-_winston () "John_-_Winston takes over your emacs buffer." (goto-char (point-min)) (insert-string "Dear Folks:\n") (while (re-search-forward "[ \t]+" nil t) (replace-match "_-_")) (goto-char (point-max)) (insert-string "\n\nJohn_-_Winston.")) mdw -- Matt Welsh mdw@tc.cornell.edu Cornell Theory Center "Donuts. Is there anything they can't do?" Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13711 alt.alien.visitors:12926 alt.good.news:1765 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!gatech!ncar!noao!arizona!dave From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.good.news Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <30494@optima.cs.arizona.edu> Date: 26 Jan 93 02:08:29 GMT References: <728034042snx@warren.demon.co.uk> Sender: news@cs.arizona.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson Lines: 11 In article <728034042snx@warren.demon.co.uk> bigfootf@warren.demon.co.uk writes: >In article <73988@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>Dear Folks: All is well in California. >>John Winston. > >That *is* good news! Don't believe it for a second. -- Dave Schaumann dave@cs.arizona.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13712 alt.alien.visitors:12927 sci.skeptic:37386 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <74371@cup.portal.com> Date: 26 Jan 93 03:25:02 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 3 Dear Folks: Boy, with Kibo and Sarfatti both posting on here now I'm getting a little confused. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13713 alt.alien.visitors:12928 alt.religion.kibology:6008 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <74332@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:22:00 GMT Lines: 22 In article <74332@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >1>+F >!Subject: UFO Fix. > Are you not feeling well? Do you have the jake-leg, hammer toes or piles? >Well then all you have to do is go and jump on a flying saucer and they will >fix you up good. John, one can't say you don't have a great sense of humor. >hen he stumbled into a rocky ravine, but his life was saveFwF >BAmTWKP >^N/O3 ,.T [...] >0Roman 10cpi UFO hadn't come along when it did. Yes I was scared." > "But those guys took good care of me. I never felt John, one can't say you told your wordprocessor "Save As ASCII." You're the only person on the net ever to mention the Roman 10cpi UFO! -- K. Word processors are like food processors. Me, I'm a Kibology processor. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!gossip.pyramid.com!decwrl!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker Message-ID: <1993Jan26.052806.9308@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 26 Jan 93 05:28:06 GMT References: <79720002@teecs.UUCP> <74327@cup.portal.com> Organization: AT&T Lines: 13 In article <74327@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Everybody: I am listening to all of your comments. Thanks to How do you do that? I can't hear a thing? > Andrew for his good words, and I believe Press2 may win some sort of > award for his come-backs to my postings. Thank you, but i already have a ward. well it's a ward doll, i'm still trying to match him with a june. know where i can find one? Thanks. > John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Subject: Mr Sarfatti? Anyone?? Help Wanted Desperately! Message-ID: <1993Jan25.203859.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Lines: 14 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:38:59 GMT Hello????? This is a desperate call to Mr Sarfatti and anyone else who can assist. My research group is working on a quasi crystal constant G boost space drive, we really need some help in the physics and chemestry areas as well as enegineering and other areas, Sorry to use the news group like this but finding people who actually know what they are talking about with working knowledge and experience is somewhat difficult. Thank you for your time Lynn Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a7975 From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) Subject: Re: Moon surface: No ETs Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:55:52 GMT Message-ID: <20064@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Lines: 29 You said: After watching the NASA tapes on the apollo missions to the moon there is one thing that really stands out. The surface of the moon has very little erosion and the impact craters are billions of years old. The tracks left by the astronauts will be there for millions of years and yet they did not see any evidents of other tracks. This can lead to the conculsion that any ETs skipped over the moon or any landing marks have not been found. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I say: Why would any beings who had the capacity to travel distances that are measured in light years and live to tell about it care to land on one of the most uninteresting spheres our solar system has to offer? It is probably a very typical type of moon in our Galaxy and thus offers absolutely no compelling study for our alien friends. What do you think? -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Who is it dear? | Don't fear the Reaper, It's a quaint little man from the | Fear your government. village...something about the | reaping!?" | krusty@outb.wimsey.bc.ca ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13714 alt.alien.visitors:12932 sci.skeptic:37389 alt.religion.kibology:6014 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74371@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:35:57 GMT Lines: 8 In article <74371@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: Boy, with Kibo and Sarfatti both posting on here now >I'm getting a little confused. My Sarfatti impression kills them at parties. Or rather, it kills parties. -- K. Xref: icaen alt.postmodern:4334 alt.religion.kibology:6015 talk.bizarre:90419 alt.alien.visitors:12933 talk.religion.newage:13715 Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.slack,talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:49:41 GMT Lines: 218 [seen in--of all places--alt.postmodern:] In article <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: > Although the following article is on the subject of religious studies, it >illustrates some important facts about the Universe: > > (1) The physical universe is ONLY the LOWEST of at least a DOZEN major >levels of existence. > > (2) Certain phenomena which seem to have no physical origin result from >INTERACTIONS between the physical universe and HIGHER LEVELS. > > (3) It is possible for INDIVIDUALS to PERSONALLY explore the Universe, >including our Solar System, using forms of "SOUL TRAVEL". Some of these forms >are also known as "out-of-body travel" and "Astral projection". [This is >DANGEROUS without the protection of a Perfect Living Master as described >below.] > > > THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE > > Most Christians would agree, and correctly so, that > Jesus Christ was a perfect living Master, and a projection of > God into the physical world, God Incarnate. > > But there are some very important related facts that > Christians are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of, as are followers of > most other world religions. > > First, Jesus Christ was NOT unique, John 3:16 NOTWITH- > STANDING. There is ALWAYS at least one such perfect living > Master (God Incarnate) PHYSICALLY ALIVE in this world AT ALL > TIMES, a continuous succession THROUGHOUT HISTORY, both > before and after the life of Jesus. > > The followers of some of these Masters founded the > world's major religions, usually PERVERTING the teachings of > their Master in the process. Christians, for example, added > THREATS of "ETERNAL DAMNATION" in Hell, and DELETED the > teaching of REincarnation. > > Secondly, and more importantly, after a particular > Master physically dies and leaves this world, there is > NOTHING that He can do for ANYbody except for the relatively > few people that He INITIATED while He was still physically > alive. (That is simply the way God set things up in the > Universes.) > > Therefore, all those Christians who worship Jesus, and > pray to Jesus, and expect Jesus to return and save them from > their sins, are only KIDDING THEMSELVES, and have allowed > themselves to be DUPED by a religion that was mostly > MANUFACTURED by the Romans. > > And emotional "feelings" are a TOTALLY DECEIVING > indicator for religious validity. > > These things are similarly true for followers of most > other major world religions, including Islam. > > Thirdly, the primary function of each Master is to tune > His Initiates into the "AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM" or "SOUND > CURRENT", (referred to as "THE WORD" in John 1:1-5, and as > "The River of Life" in Revelation 22:1), and to personally > guide each of them thru the upper levels of Heaven while they > are still connected to their living physical bodies by a > "silver cord". > > True Salvation, which completes a Soul's cycles of > REincarnation in the physical and psychic planes, is achieved > only by reaching at least the "SOUL PLANE", which is five > levels or universes above the physical universe, and this > canNOT be done without the help of a Perfect LIVING Master. > > One such perfect Master alive today is an American, Sri > Harold Klemp, the Living "Eck" Master or "Mahanta" for the > "Eckankar" organization, now headquartered in Minneapolis, > (P.O. Box 27300; zip 55427). > > Another perfect living Master is Maharaj Gurinder Singh > Ji, now living in Punjab, India, and is associated with the > "Sant Mat" organization. > > One of the classic books on this subject is "THE PATH OF > THE MASTERS" (Radha Soami Books, P.O. Box 242, Gardena, CA > 90247), written in 1939 by Dr. Julian Johnson, a theologian > and surgeon who spent the last years of his life in India > studying under and closely observing the Sant Mat Master of > that time, Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji. > > Several of the Eckankar books, including some authored > by Sri Paul Twitchell or Sri Harold Klemp, can be found in > most public and university libraries and some book stores, or > obtained thru inter-library loan. The book "ECKANKAR--THE > KEY TO SECRET WORLDS", by Sri Paul Twitchell, is ANOTHER > classic. > > Many Christians are likely to confuse the Masters with > the "Anti-Christ", which is or was to be a temporary world > dictator during the so-called "last days". But the Masters > don't ever rule, even when asked or expected to do so as > Jesus was. > > People who continue following Christianity, Islam, or > other orthodox religions with a physically DEAD Master, will > CONTINUE on their cycles of REincarnation, between the > psychic planes and this MISERABLE physical world, until they > finally WISE UP! > > > > RE-INCARNATION > > The book "HERE AND HEREAFTER", by Ruth Montgomery, > describes several kinds of evidence supporting REincarnation > as a FACT OF LIFE, including HYPNOTIC REGRESSIONS to past > lives, SPONTANEOUS RECALL (especially by young children, some > of whom can identify their most recent previous relatives, > homes, possessions, etc.), DREAM RECALL of past life experi- > ences, DEJA VU (familiarity with a far off land while travel- > ing there for the first time on vacation), the psychic read- > ings of the late EDGAR CAYCE, and EVEN SUPPORTING STATEMENTS > FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE including Matthew 17:11-13 (John the > Baptist was the REINCARNATION of Elias.) and John 9:1-2 (How > can a person POSSIBLY sin before he is born, unless he LIVED > BEFORE?!). [ ALWAYS use the "KING JAMES VERSION". Later > versions are PER-VERSIONS! ] Strong INTERESTS, innate > TALENTS, strong PHOBIAS, etc., typically originate from a > person's PAST LIVES. For example, a strong fear of swimming > in or traveling over water usually results from having > DROWNED at the end of a PREVIOUS LIFE. And sometimes a > person will take AN IMMEDIATE DISLIKE to another person being > met for the first time, because of a bad encounter with him > during a PREVIOUS INCARNATION. > > The teaching of REincarnation also includes the LAW OF > KARMA (Galatians 6:7, Revelation 13:10, etc.). People would > behave much better toward each other if they knew that their > actions in the present will surely be reaped by them in the > future, or in a FUTURE INCARNATION! > > > > "2nd COMINGS" > > If a Perfect Living Master physically dies ("trans- > lates") before a particular Initiate of His does, then when > that Initiate physically dies ("translates"), the Master will > meet him on the Astral level and take him directly to the > Soul Plane. This is the ONE AND ONLY correct meaning of a > 2nd Coming. It is an INDIVIDUAL experience, NOT something > that happens for everyone all at once. People who are still > waiting for Jesus' "2nd Coming" are WAITING IN VAIN. > > > > PLANES OF EXISTENCE > > The physical universe is the LOWEST of AT LEAST a DOZEN > major levels of existence. Above the Physical Plane is the > Astral Plane, the Causal Plane, the Mental Plane, the Etheric > Plane (often counted as the upper part of the Mental Plane), > the Soul Plane, and several higher Spiritual Planes. The > Soul Plane is the FIRST TRUE HEAVEN, (counting upward from > the Physical). The planes between (but NOT including) the > Physical and Soul Planes are called the Psychic Planes. > > It is likely that ESP, telepathy, astrological > influences, radionic effects, biological transmutations [See > the 1972 book with that title.], and other phenomena without > an apparent physical origin, result from INTERACTIONS between > the Psychic Planes and the Physical Plane. > > The major planes are also SUB-DIVIDED. For example, a > sub-plane of the Astral Plane is called "Hades", and the > Christian Hell occupies a SMALL part of it, created there > LESS THAN 2000 YEARS AGO by the EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH by some > kind of black magic or by simply teaching its existence in a > THREATENING manner. The Christian "Heaven" is located > elsewhere on the Astral Plane. Good Christians will go there > for a short while and then REincarnate back to Earth. > > > > SOUND CURRENT vs. BLIND FAITH > > The Christian religion demands of its followers an > extraordinary amount of BLIND FAITH backed up by little more > than GOOD FEELING (which is TOTALLY DECEIVING). > > If a person is not HEARING some form of the "SOUND > CURRENT" ("THE WORD", "THE BANI", "THE AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM"), > then his cycles of REINCARNATION in this MISERABLE world WILL > CONTINUE. > > The "SOUND CURRENT" manifests differently for different > Initiates, and can sound like a rushing wind, ocean waves on > the sea shore, buzzing bees, higher-pitched buzzing sound, a > flute, various heavenly music, or other sounds. In Eckankar, > Members start hearing it near the end of their first year as > a Member. This and other experiences (such as "SOUL TRAVEL") > REPLACE blind faith. > > > > UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this > IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED and I ENJOY stuffing > LARGE SHARP NEEDLES into VARIOUS bodily ORIFICES while > watching the EXCITING syndicated TV series, "SMALL WONDER". > > > Robert E. McElwaine > 2nd Initiate in Eckankar All I have to say to this is that Rev. Ivan Stang, who owns the Church of the SubGenius, called Eckankar "The Stupidest Cult(TM)". And HE KNOWS STUPID CULTS! -- K. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!ford.ecn.purdue.edu!unglenie From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan26.030255.631@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1993Jan20.070944.23587@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> <1993Jan25.074044.4189@news.unomaha.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:02:55 GMT Lines: 34 graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >> >I don't think anyone would argue that the military does lots of things >> >that are secret. >> >But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked. >> >A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon. >> >B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy? unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu writes: >> Let's say they were testing MANNED balloons as a recon platform or to set >> an altitude record and something went wrong and the crew was killed. It >> would be very embarrassing public relations-wise if this go out. This sounds >> like a plausible reason for secrecy. Joe Citro III writes: > If this were true then why draw attention to the incident by claiming > the recovery of a disk? At the time there was a substantial reward for > physical evidence of flying saucers ( UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL-RANDLE/ > SCHMITT). Consequently, a claim of such evidence would be sure to > attract unwanted attention to the theoretical manned balloon crash > site. Ok, so you don't like the manned idea. How about, the balloon is carrying particulate collectors to look for fallout from US or Soviet Nuclear tests. You post a reward so people will turn in the "disks" rather than keep them. The US Govt. keeps plenty of things secret for a long time. There are OSI files still classified for over 50 years now. Rob U -- - Rob Unglenieks REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES - - "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no - - native criminal class except Congress." [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] - - (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton. Will Engineer For Food) - Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: Date: 26 Jan 93 06:13:46 GMT References: <1993Jan20.193526.8581@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan21.150347.8162@udel.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 41 mm@brl.mil (Mike Markowski) writes: Someone would tell his wife or best friend or let it slip on his death bed, etc. O'course, this has actually happened. For instance, "Pappy" Henderson told his wife. Jesse Marcel talked to various people. Mac Brazel was specifically told *not* to talk to anyone. Various people have come to Len Stringfield (for, among other things, his proven discretion) -- I recommend his various reports (most available from MUFON) about a number of UFO-related things. Also have a read of Randle and Schmitt's "UFO Crash at Roswell", for lists of people who witnessed events at Roswell. After so many decades the most likely reason an et vehicle could remain secret is if something so big or so bad were discovered that it left no doubt in anyone's mind that it should remain secret. ... yes. I have said before that a secret is easy to keep if everyone involved *wants* to keep it secret (or at least has a vested interest in keeping it secret.) But in that case, we should observe some major shift in governmental goals and policies, and we haven't. ... well, now let's not get too hasty. Major shifts from what to what? Do we know for certain that the late-1950's "race for space" was motivated solely because of fear of a (as was known at the time, at least in some government circles) relatively inferior Soviet capability? Consider NASA's continuing quest for a reasonable budget. ... NASA's budget is not by any means the entirety of the US space effort (and never was). Ever hear of a KH-11? (I know Vandenburg AFB is a long way from you, but surely you've heard of it! :-) Have a read of William Burrows' "Deep Black" for more. Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445 From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) Subject: strange encounters Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:54:42 GMT Message-ID: <20071@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Lines: 21 Well, well, well. I've not logged on in two months and I see little has changed. John's still filling the ether with Enquirer garbage and people are discussing Star trek as if they were real aliens. I'm happy that we're all still so serious. What happened to those blistering incriminations from the e.t. purists? Did they get their own group? Where have I been you ask? You don't? Let me tell you. I was abducted by aliens for Christmas. This was after having to move to avoid and alien overlord who wanted me to have his children. I took an alias as a bean bag chair but these party aliens still got me. We managed to derail John's astral train and take some corns off of Bigfoot's toes. He pined a sigh of relief and I screamed in happiness for the Jovian jive juice I drank. Later when I felt like a vegetable those damn aliens transplanted my brain with, um let's see, yes, with peas. I'll never be hungry again. Not only that but I think that life is wonderful and that our government and our fellow neighbor's the U.S. of A is very righteous and holy. Brian Mulroney isn't an egotist and the world will be all right. Don't worry I'm all right now...Nothing's changed. ;) Colleen -- It's not how much I know that counts but how much I'm trying to learn. The Crimson Bunion Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!monu6!richardson-1g1-02.cc.monash.edu.au!risringer From: risringer@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (RISHI) Subject: Re: hEI hEI Message-ID: Keywords: circular gravity Sender: news@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Usenet system) Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University References: <1991Feb8.124600.22017@eik.ii.uib.no> <2014@cluster.cs.su.oz.au> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:18:07 GMT Lines: 40 In article <2014@cluster.cs.su.oz.au> fred@karl.cs.su.OZ.AU (Fred Curtis) writes: >From: fred@karl.cs.su.OZ.AU (Fred Curtis) >Subject: Re: hEI hEI >Keywords: circular gravity >Date: 9 Feb 91 04:53:14 GMT >In article <1991Feb8.124600.22017@eik.ii.uib.no> nIS writes: >>hELLO eARTHBEINGS, >> >>AFTER DAYS SEVERAL RECONNAISANCE, HAVE WE FOIND A LANDING SITE. iT IS >>HERE NEAR tRENGEREID, NOT VERY FAR FROM sLARTIBARTFAST'S MONOGRAM, i THINK >>THEY CALL THIS PLACE NORGYWAY. pEOPLE OF THE eNGLISH TONGS SPEAK OF >>THE NORGEYS. wE WILL BE UPDATING WITH MORE DETAILS OF OUR PLANNED TOUR >>OF THE EARTH PLANET LATER, WHEN WE ARE NOT SO BUSY. wE MUST FIRST SEE REPORTS >>OG OUR ARRIVAL IN THE LOCAL RAG - i THINK THEY CALL IT baBLAD. >> >>nIS >> >>(a ROUGH TRANSLATION OF MY REAL NAME TO YOUR CHARACTER SET) >Excuse me, but this is my first posting (again). Testing? Testing? >I have been rereading this newsgroup all my life but I still do not >understand one thing. What is a 'fnord'? The only other place I >have heard this word was in a monty python sketch: > Irate customer: He's dead! > Shop manager: No, he's not dead! He's pining for the fnords! > Irate customer: Paining for fee-nords? What kind of talk is that? >My good friend 'Robert' lent me a book by Douglas Addams. I don't >think I believe EVERYTHING in it, but I think it mentioned something >about Fnords in Norgyway. Is that near Paraguay? Is Slartifartblast a >REAL person? >Can anyone tell me about the green golfball joke? hello guys, I really don't know what ya are trying to write but I would like some explanation from ya. o.k Please dont judge this guy too harshly - he comes from Mauritius. nuff said. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13718 alt.alien.visitors:12939 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) Subject: Re: Don Allen Message-ID: <2B64F77D.5EA0@tct.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:34:05 GMT References: <1993Jan13.041454.7386@bilver.uucp> <1993Jan13.125150.9588@walter.bellcore.com> <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> <1993Jan21.031003.2167@bilver.uucp> Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL Lines: 30 According to dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen): >In article <2B5750E9.815D@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >>Ask Don about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. _Then_ praise him. > >I already settled this in email... You _denied_ it in E-Mail, you didn't settle it. The fact remains that you publicly posted that the Protocols were, and I quote, ``DAMN specific'' about who were the people responsible for various and sundry bad things in the world. That statement could only come from a person who considered the Protocols to be real. >so WHY are you deliberately provoking a negative response and casting >apersions about _my_ character when you know less than dog shit about >me or what things *I* go through? It's true, I know little about you. But then, I _write_ little about you. That's because I write only what I know. >... if you don't [shut up] I will surely add your name encoded in a >most derogatory way conceivable in every *text* I disseminate, which >I might add is a considerable amount. Ah, extortion. How noble. -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagels to my face / and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!alpha.ces.cwru.edu!oldham From: oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon, no ETs Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:55:37 GMT Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University Lines: 22 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <1k3cc9INNljf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu You said: >Why would any beings who had the capacity to travel distances that are >measured in light years and live to tell about it care to land on one of the >most uninteresting spheres our solar system has to offer? It is probably a >very typical type of moon in our Galaxy and thus offers absolutely no >compelling study for our alien friends. >What do you think? OK, the moon is uninteresting compared to the earth but these aliens are not so smart if you believe in the Roswell testimony. The earth is like an oasis in space and the ETs do not want us to destroy it. Therefore they would want to monitor dangerous activities on earth. A station on the moon would have been a good spot before man started to explore space but they have skipped over the moon. So either the moon is too far from the earth for them to monitor or they knew leaving tracks would be discovered in the future. -- dano: Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:01:21 GMT References: <73645@cup.portal.com> <15840003@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 63 In article <15840003@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes: >Peter Nelson writes: > I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because > the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG, > masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron) > when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow. > > The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and > isn't very well-read. So he doesn't realize that all these > themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such > diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the > Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th > and 20th century literature, including important works of science > fiction! > >Peter, I very much take exception to this. I thought you were better >informed. I, as an engineer, know many engineers who love Star Trek for >the moral, ethical, political and human rights issues it consistently >raises with a thin veneer of sci-fi, Nobody denies that it *raises* these issues. My point is that it only addresses them in the most simplistic, unsophisticated manner imaginable. I'm taking issue with those here who say that Star Trek is intellectually sophisticated. Nietzsche or Hume might be intellectually sophisticated in matters of philosophy, Bell or Einstein in matters of physics, Hofstadter or Kuhn in matters of the philosophy of science, etc, to take some of the subjects that Star Trek touches on. But when I say things like this someone else is bound to retort, "But it's only a TV show!". Well, no shit, Sherlock, but we can't have our cake and eat it too. Unless "intellec- tually sophisticated" is going to have a different definition for TV than for every other medium, we have to face facts. And the fact is that while Star Trek may passingly acknowledge the existence of Great Issues it sheds precious little light on them for anyone who's reasonably well-educated. > and I'll bet if you surveyed the engineers at the Chelmsford plant, > you'd find an awful lot of other Trekkers. So? >Star Trek derives many of its themes from Shakespeare, and many of the >actors are Shakespearean. So? Gilligan's Island could well be likened to "The Tempest" but there the comparison ends. >Star Trek represents humankinds best hopes and dreams for a future we >can be proud of. How do you draw this conclusion? ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:08:49 GMT References: <2613.1785.uupcb@almac.co.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 28 In article <2613.1785.uupcb@almac.co.uk> andy.liddiard@almac.co.uk (Andy Liddiard) writes: > >You, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writ > >PN/* current topics. Flattery, it seems, will get you *everywhere* >PN/* with the TV generation: tell them that they're intelligent and >PN/* that they demonstrate this by watching your "intellectually >PN/* stimulating" TV show and they'll tune in in droves. > >HA! 17 million Britons tune in to Cilla Black's _Blind Date_ every >week. This is telling them they're shit-thick morons - and they love >it. Nah, your theory is leaking. Either that, or to them it's flattery! >(Hang on, this is rec.couch.potato, right? What have you done with >John Winston's alt.alien.visitors? It's was here yesterday....) I put the whole thing in my kill file. Just putting Winston in my kill file wasn't sufficient -- I still had to read all the responses to his drivel. This is MY newsgroup now and I control the topics! Next thread: What Will Robinson and his robot did in Cleveland! ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:18:40 GMT References: <19904@mindlink.bc.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 39 In article <19904@mindlink.bc.ca> Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) writes: >How dare you call ST:TNG and DS9 Lowbrow! > >You quasi-intellectuals piss me off. > >The greatest contribution to society you have ever made is probably the >message that I am replying too. IF *you* don't watch TV then refrain from >commenting on the above topic. > >I also find it quite rewarding that The Simpsons contributed to your decision >to nix TV. You really must have a good sense of humour, a regular Jerry >Steinfeld! (or do you know who he is?) Of course; he's the guy who does the routines involving his dog ("It's that GUY! He's home again!"). Actually I love stand-up, and I don't try to flatter myself into thinking it's "intellectually stimulating". But when I want stand-up I either go to a club or I rent a video where I can watch it for two hours without having to be interrupted every 6 minutes with ads for "Lee Press-On Nails" and random musical numbers, as they do on A&E's Evening at the Improv, or have the comedian's best work censored because it involves dirty words or topics not suitable for family viewing. People like Redd Fox and Richard Pryor have some great stuff that you will never see on regular broadcast TV, only on occasional and rare specials on expensive premium channels, because it's too "adult". Which just goes to show again, that TV treats its viwers like children. Like everything else on TV, TV stand-up comedy is only a pale imitation of the real thing. ---peter Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: Date: 26 Jan 93 04:59:58 GMT References: <1993Jan20.100852.10600@ntb.ch> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 51 milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: [generally accurate description of radar-targeting device] ... the Rawin target device (the one that the Roswell whateveritwas is claimed to be) is towed by neoprene rubber balloon(s), under which the targeting device is attached by string. (Yes, string.) At the edges of the board frames for each reflector was stapled a slip of typed paper reading "Property of Air Materiel Command Watson Laboratories, Army Air Field (and then local launch addres)." The argument against anything "strange" seems to be that 1) The development of radar itself was a secret undertaking. ... certainly not. It took a little digging, but I found a reference to radar (calling it "radiolocation of aircraft", which is what radar is; the passage also includes describing its use in vectoring interceptors to attacking air units) in "The Makers of Modern Strategy", by Edward Mead Earle -- in 1943 (Princeton University Press, pg. 494.) ... 4 years before Roswell. (Radar, of course, predates WWII, but I wanted to be sure there was an unclassified reference to it before 1947.) 2) The shape of the reflector (and being able to use something like this at all in a test) was secret. ... since the reflector is a series of triangles, so as to be the best reflector from any angle, I can't imagine it would be secret. (And, see below about the Ohio incident.) 3) The special metal alloy used was secret. It was very thin, very light, and very strong. It was, of course, extremely important that samples of the metal didn't get into enemy hands. (Don't ask me what it was!) ... according to "Roswell, A Historical Perspective", the reflector was made of aluminum foil. (That would work, of course, suitably thin, its plenty light.) The problem with all this is that on July 1, 1947 (several days before the Roswell brouhaha), Mr. Sherman Campbell of Circleville, Ohio, had found (according to the Circleville Herald) a balloon "about 50 inches high, 48 inches wide, and weighed about 2 pounds. Silver foil was stretched over a wooden frame... was a star-shaped object ... had 6 points." Sound familiar? The wreckage, rather than being swooped off by the USAAF to, well, anywhere, was allowed to sit in the offices of the Circleville Herald for several days, and then returned to the Campbell family as a souvenir. So why all the brouhaha in New Mexico? Charles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!botgc Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1993 17:27:03 EST From: Message-ID: <93025.172703BOTGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: newsletter Lines: 2 TO: Suzanne Courey. Thank you for subscribing. The newsletter is on its way to you. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13719 alt.alien.visitors:12946 alt.religion.kibology:6022 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <1993Jan26.174501.26248@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <74332@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:45:01 GMT Lines: 33 In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >In article <74332@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>1>+F >>!Subject: UFO Fix. >> Are you not feeling well? Do you have the jake-leg, hammer toes or piles? >>Well then all you have to do is go and jump on a flying saucer and they will >>fix you up good. > >John, one can't say you don't have a great sense of humor. > >>hen he stumbled into a rocky ravine, but his life was saveFwF >>BAmTWKP >>^N/O3 ,.T [...] >>0Roman 10cpi UFO hadn't come along when it did. Yes I was scared." >> "But those guys took good care of me. I never felt > >John, one can't say you told your wordprocessor "Save As ASCII." You're >the only person on the net ever to mention the Roman 10cpi UFO! It is true that most prefer Helvetica, or Times-Roman. Twelve points for readability. -- K. > Word processors are like > food processors. Me, I'm > a Kibology processor. Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pacbell.com!well!sarfatti From: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) Subject: Contact! Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:16:02 GMT Lines: 137 On the Mind-Matter Interaction by Jack Sarfatti, Ph.D. The connection between mind and matter is not a problem restricted to philosophy and theology. It is a problem for new physics. Indeed, it may be the fundamental problem for the new post-Einsteinian physics of quantum connectivity beyond the confines of space and time. The new physics is the telepathic physics of "The Force" without force portrayed in the film "Star Wars". It is the Physics of Destiny. It is the source of meaning. It is the generator of existence in a universe of purpose uniting Man with God. The new physics provides the beginnings of a paradigm for wholistic medicine. It provides ideas on how disease develops, how drugs work, how electromagnetic machines influence health, how the body influences the mind and how the mind influences the body. Today we use our fingers to type messages into a computer. This is changing rapidly. We already have programs that respond to our voice commands. We are beginning to develop programs coupled with sensitive electromagnetic detectors that allow computers to respond to our tiny eye movements. Soon the computers will respond to the electromagnetic radiations from our brains that correspond to our thoughts. The computer will obey the commands of our unvoiced thoughts. It will work both ways. The computer will be able to generate thoughts, feelings and experiences directly into our conscious and unconscious minds without audio and video outputs. This new "psychotronic" technology will, like any new technology, have the potential for healing and harming. How is the new physics different from the old physics? The basic difference is in that complex of connected ideas represented by the words: "signal", "communication", "information", "meaning" and "value". Old physics assumes that causes are always before their effects, and that the only way to transfer information is by moving matter or radiation. New physics permits causes to be after their effects under certain condition. When an effect happens, the several causes of that effect are both in its past and in its future. There is also a third possibility. A cause of the effect can be faster-than-light in Einstein's "absolute elsewhere" of that effect. New physics also says that there are two modes of information transfer. The first is the old physics mode, in which the information is transferred by a carrier within Einstein's unified spacetime. The carrier is either radiation or matter in motion (e.g., a radio or TV signal, a sound wave packet, a courier etc.). The second mode of information transfer is telepathic, clairvoyant,psychokinetic and precognitive, alien to old physics but familiar to prophets, mystics, poets and artists. It is communication on the "nonlocal" quantum connection "beyond spacetime". There is no single direct carrier of matter or radiation moving directly from sender to receiver. There are, however, two indirect connected carriers moving from a third "source" to sender and receiver, respectively. Under certain conditions called "delayed choice" the sender of information can be in the far future of the receiver of that information. It is in this sense that we think of The Force without force or "La Forza del Destino". The Princeton University Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory under the former Dean of the Engineering College, Robert Jahn, claims that the human mind has this "precognitive remote-viewing" ability. The "skeptics" (e.g., former Scientific American columnist Martin Gardner's Committee to Investigate Claims of the Paranormal), who only believe old physics, claim that Dr. Jahn is misinterpreting is results with bad statistics. However, a late station chief of the American Central Intelligence Agency assured me that he had used "remote viewing" very successfully in covert operations inside the Soviet Union during the peak of the Cold War. If Martin Gardner's real motive is to hide the reality of remote viewing for reasons of "national security", then he would naturally wish to debunk it. The American Army has published positive reports of "psychic warfare" in several professional journals like Miltary Review and Signal. The gossip is that Martin Gardner and the arch-debunker, "The Amazing Randi" take psychic phenomena very seriously. That is why they came down so hard on Uri Geller because they believe him to be an imposter - a stage magician in psychic clothes. It is certainly true that Randi can do everything that Geller can do. It is also true that Geller fails rigorous tests set up by other stage magicians. On the other hand, I saw topologically intricate twisted metal allegedly bent by psychics in Brazil that is very puzzling. The reader should form his own opinion. As a scientist, I do not have an opinion on the reality of psychokinetic metal-bending at this point in time. We must be more precise about telepathic information transfer on the quantum connection. The quantum connection was discovered by Einstein in the early 1930's in his debate with Bohr on the completeness of the new quantum mechanics of quantum jumping electrons (in atoms, molecules and crystals) emitting and absorbing photons. Both electrons and photons, under certain experimental conditions, behaved like tiny particles, while behaving as spread-out waves under different incompatible experimental conditions. All quantum particles obeyed the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. This principle asserts that observable properties of the particle like its position and its momentum were incompatible. That is, an increase in the precision of our measurement of one property would decrease the precision in a simultaneous measurement of the other incompatible property. This was something new, not found in Newton's classical mechanics of gravitational or electromagnetic forces causing particles to accelerate (i.e. change speed or direction or both). Einstein thought about a simple molecule that split into two atoms that flew away from each other in opposite direction. He showed that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle for one of the atoms could not be true unless there was a real quantum connection or an "action at a distance" between the two atoms. This long-range connection was qualitatively different from from the known long-range forces of gravitation and electromagnetism. The known forces weaken with increasing separation between the two particles. Quite the contrary is the case for the quantum connection which persists undiminished with increasing separation in either space or time. Einstein called this "telepathic" and "spooky action at a distance". Quantum mechanics seems to open the door to a precise mathematical voodoo, i.e., embracing or "entangled" quantum "wavefunctions". An experiment by Alain Aspect at the University of Paris in 1982 on a pair of photons emitted in opposite directions by a calcium atom shows conclusively that such a theoretically predicted faster-than-light quantum connection is real. There is a "loophole" that must be plugged when more efficient photon detectors become available. To really be sure the photon detectors must be at least 83% efficient. Aspect's detectors are considerably less efficient. However, the extremely good agreement between the experimental data and the theoretical curve of standard quantum mechanics makes most experts quite confident that the loophole when plugged will not overturn Aspect's result. We must however be clear that Aspect's discovery is not sufficient to establish the factuality of useful faster-than-light communication in which the quantum connection is a communication channel. A communication channel means that we must be able to encode a message at the sender and to decode it at the receiver. In Aspect's experiment it is easy to encode the message but it is impossible to decode it by observations at the receiver alone. One must compare or "correlate" the observations from both the receiver and the sender in order to decode the message. This, unfortunately defeats the purpose. On the other hand, this observed quantum connectedness may be vital in understanding the coherent behavior of complex living systems. There is little doubt that a deeper understanding of the webs of quantum connectivity between widely separated spinning electrons on DNA and enzymes will lead to more effective medicine in the battle against disease and aging. It will also lead to a new psychotronic nano-technology interfacing mind to machine including new healing therapies. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!geac!r-node!marc From: marc@r-node.pci.on.ca (Marc G Fournier) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle References: <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> Organization: R-node Public Access Unix - 1 416 249 5366 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:16:43 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan26.101643.4409@r-node.pci.on.ca> Lines: 17 In article <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes: >Didn't we hear a while back about the guys who supposedly created all >these things as a joke and then video taped how they did it? Are crop >circles still actually believed to be made by aliens (I thought the guys >had enough proof otherwise)? > I remember seeing something on A&E about that. What *I* understand is that they proved that they could be made by men, and that some of them where actually hoaxes, but they don't think they are all hoaxes. Something about some of them having patterns that couldn't be man-made, or were too difficult to make so something like that. Marc -- Marc G. Fournier | R-node Public Access Unix running Linux 0.99p4 Etobicoke, Ontario | 416-249-5366 24hrs 7 days/week network email voice: 249-4230 | shell accounts 1600+ newsgroups FREE marc@r-node.pci.on.ca | Telebit WorldBlazer/SupraModem2400/Cardinal 2400 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) Subject: Re: Don't Worry Be Happy. Cc: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:13:00 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Lines: 6 >-- K. >Never shout "Theater!" in > fired crowd. ...and never shout "VACUUM!" in a crowded space port. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! Message-ID: <1993Jan26.185106.5220@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:51:06 GMT Lines: 120 Subject: Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! smg6@po.CWRU.Edu (Stanley M. Golem) posts... >This is reply to message 12865, posted by Mr. Richard Payne. >In an earlier message, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: [edited for readability, ^Ms deleted] >>Detection of a wobble by photographic means has always seemed a bit >>suspicious to me. It seems that the error must exceed the magnitude >>of the wobble. Perhaps use of CCDs would reduce the errors. This is >>something about which I have doubts, can anyone confirm the inaccuracies >>present in photographic detection? > >Please read posts more carefully. Photographic detection of the type >that you seem to refer to was not mentioned and, as you point out, would >probably not detect a wobble. Not so, intitial detection of this kind of wobble -was- done with photographic methods. This was how the companion to Barnards star was discovered. It was what I was referring to. You need to divorce yourself from the notion that I must reference only what you have posted, and that you need not address any points made not in reference to your earlier text. The universe does not revolve around your consciousness. > But I was not referring to this method. I was. >My fault -- I should have spelled out "interferometry," which can detect >stellar diameters as small as 0.00041 arc-second, making use of the wave >nature of light. This technique was first used with the 100-inch Mt. >Wilson telescope back in the 1920's, so I assumed that anyone interested >in the subject would be well aware of this. You have other faults, do not flatter yourself. Gee, light has a wave nature! Gosh. Golly, wait till I tell Gomer... Interferometry, because of it's greater sensivitity, has other problems. >My original post said: > >>>One might raise the objection that these companions are too large to be >>>called planets. If they are nonluminous and orbiting a star, I don't >>>know what else you'd call them. >>So you would call a black hole or a neutron star a planet? The universe >>may be a bit young for black dwarfs, but these would also fit the bill. >>But cooler expired stars might not be detectable due to their small >>surface area. > >No, I would not call a black hole or a neutron star a planet. Don't be >ridiculous! The only nonluminous bodies with masses well below that of >the star they are orbiting are planets, at least as far as we know. If >you have incontrovertible proof otherwise, you should share it with the >rest of us. My point was that [non-luminous, orbiting star] != [planet]. This was in direct response to your assertion that "If they are nonluminous and orbiting a star, I don't know what else you'd call them." Please try to follow the conversation. >Again, try reading the original post more carefully. I don't give a fig about the original post, and apparently you do not give a fig about dicussion. I guess we both lose. > It says, given >the existence of nonluminous bodies orbiting a star, I would call them >planets rather than companion stars. I was refuting a possible objec- >tion that they might be called stars in their own right. Is this such >a hard sentence to understand? Already addressed. >My post also said: >>> In any case, their existence could >>>not possibly hurt the chances of smaller planets being present. I >>>hope this is useful. >To which you answered: > >>Who knows? Honestly, how do you know. Suppose the sub-star inhabits the >>habitibal zone (where liquid water is possible). Would that not affect >>the possibility of life at that solar system? > >Come on! If you're going to take up other people's time by posting, at >least put a little thought into it before you do so. Gratuitous insults do not add to your posts. Nor did you respond to what I had posted. No big surprise there. I ask again, why do you suppose that a jupiter sized planet located in the habitable zone could support life? >I said that the existence of large gas giants could not hurt the chances >of smaller planets being present. And I ask upon what you base this assumption. > For proof of this, just look at our >own solar system -- more than one huge planet and a good number of smaller >ones, at least one of which supports intelligent (for the most part) life. What do aspects of our solar system prove about other solar systems? Nothing. >Do you have trouble reading and understanding English, or are you simply >intellectually dysfunctional? No, but I do have trouble communicating with the learning disabled. Perhaps someday you can produce a post that can be read without editing. Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen sci.physics:36354 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2845 sci.skeptic:37413 alt.paranormal:6346 rec.arts.startrek.tech:7689 alt.alien.visitors:12951 alt.magick:8576 alt.pagan:25481 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!pacbell.com!well!sarfatti From: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,rec.arts.startrek.tech,alt.alien.visitors,alt.magick,alt.pagan Subject: New Physics,Healing & Paranormal 2 "White Paper" Message-ID: Date: 26 Jan 93 18:43:54 GMT Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link Lines: 91 Continuing part 2 of my paid for "intelligence analysis" on the impact of New Age Paradigms on the future of medicine, new marketing strategies, new politics, etc. etc. for a high level consortium based in Luxembourg,Geneva,London and Paris. Your (unpaid) comments, criticisms will be included (if of value) in footnotes. I am striving for a balanced objective presentation. The behavior of tiny spinning electrically charged particles, mainly electrons and protons (i.e. hydrogen bonds), fundamental to the quantum mechanics of our bodies, obeys new laws of chance. The new feature, according to the late Genius, Richard Feynman, is the "coherent superposition of alternative histories". In the old physics, since all causes were before their effects, the Newtonian laws of motion could, in principle, predict the precise future behavior of single particles given complete information on the initial causes. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle says that complete information on the initial causes is not possible in principle. The fundamental reason is that intial causes in the past are not enough to predict the behavior of the particle as it evolves in time. Future "final causes" or purposive "teleological" karmic influences also co-determine the intermediate behavior of the particle from its preparation to its detection. The Feynman "history" is a description of the possible motion of the particle (or field) from its preparation in the past to its detection in the future. Each possible alternative history, each "separate reality" for the particle (or electromagnetic field) is described by an "amplitude" which encodes the entire "action" from past to future in a point on a circle of an abstract space of pure mathematical thought called "the complex plane". All of quantum mechanics, both standard and my new non-standard version, can be summarized in two laws: 1. Given a set of indistinguishable alternative histories, add their arrows and then "take the square" to compute the probability of that indistinguishable set. 2. Given a set of distinguishable alternative histories, "take the square" and then add these squares to compute the probability of that distinguishable set. A word on what it means to "take the square". The Feynman amplitude for a possible history of any quantum process has a "retarded" form that propagates information forward-in-time from preparation to detection and a "conjugate" or "advanced" form that propagates information backward-in-time from detection to preparation. "Taking the square" means multiplying the forward-in-time amplitude by the backward-time-time amplitude. When several indistinguishable histories coherently superpose (in an interpenetration of separate classical realities that has no analog in the old physics) we have "loops in time" between interfering separate classical realities or parallel universes. The chemical bonds in which spinning electrons bind atoms into molecules could not exist without these quantum loops and time which are essential to manipulate the healing process by electromagnetic machines in the coming new medicine. Poincare discovered that there is an inherent classical uncertainty in the old physics of complex systems quite distinct from the quantum uncertainty of new physics. The old physics uncertainty is called "chaos" using the mathematics of "fractal attractors in phase space". It applies to attempts to predict weather, stock market prices, heart beats, neural web activity (e.g. brain waves) brain waves and many other kinds of complex measurable phenomena in the human body essential to medical diagnostics. The relation between classical chaos and quantum connectivity is not at all understood by any one today. The late David Bohm came closest in his "nonlocal quantum potential" approach to quantum mechanics. It is a topic of great importance for biophysical and psycho-physical research. It is also important for the design of the next generation of parallel-processing super-computers with switching hardware in the .35 micron or smaller scale. Quantum phenomena involve chance (i.e. probability) in a new fundamental way which is not the same as our intuitions based upon rolling dice, or playing card games. The conservation of probability is fundamental to all science. That is, if we know all the ways something can happen, then the sum of the probabilities for all the ways must add up to 1. In standard quantum mechanics, the conservation of probability is expressed by a mathematical condition called "unitarity of the time evolution". The mathematics of unitarity erects a formidable barrier against useful communication on the nonlocal quantum connection. Unitarity prevents the decoding of the message by observations at the receiver alone within the standard quantum mechanics. However, I have recently discovered that unitarity while being sufficient to ensure conservation of probability is not necessary, at least in the special case of the connected particles with "entangled" wave functions. There appears to be a weaker mathematical possibility that I will call "weak nonunitarity" that still conserves probability for the alternate behaviors of the receiver and for the sender separately. This breaking of the unitarity barrier in a new non-standard quantum mechanics which is minimally different from standard quantum mechanics may permit the local decoding of the message at the receiver. This approach as well as others is essential for the further progress of new physics applications to healing and supercomputer design. Brian Josephson, a Nobel Prize Laureate in physics at Cambridge University thinks that complex living systems, which unlike inorganic matter are not in thermal equilibrium, break the unitarity barrier of standard quantum mechanics by some new principle not yet understood. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a7975 From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) Subject: Re: Philadelphia experiment Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:23:09 GMT Message-ID: <20087@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Lines: 27 You said : I am interested in finding out a bit more about the Philadelphia experiment, I didn't know which group to post to, and since you mentioned it here, I thought I'd give it a go here. Apart from the intention of the military to create a radar blanking system. I know nothing about the experiments or their outcomes. Does anyone feel like shedding some light on this one? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There actually is a movie out on the Philadelphia Experiment and some books. The movie, I'm not sure how much dramatic license is involved, is titled "The Philadelphia Experiment" and its just a few years old now. -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Who is it dear? | Don't fear the Reaper, It's a quaint little man from the | Fear your government. village...something about the | reaping!?" | krusty@outb.wimsey.bc.ca ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13720 alt.alien.visitors:12953 sci.skeptic:37415 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!cochiti.lanl.gov!jlg From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) Subject: Re: Paranormal Message-ID: <1993Jan26.195334.12894@newshost.lanl.gov> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74195@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan25.194610.15732@newshost.lanl.gov> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:53:34 GMT Lines: 21 In article , mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: |> [...] |> Well, actually folklorists do it all the time. And the analogy is |> HIGHLY relevant: folk beliefs and stories have meanings, purposes, |> and existance that has nothing at all to do with claims of "scientific" |> or "rational" existence. |> [...] |> Anyway, these claims CAN be studied, at least if you treat them as |> folk traditions and act accordingly. Agreed. My remarks were addressed entirely at the idea that these were real phenomena in the sense of something deserving of scientific study in their own right. If they are purely folklore or something of the sort, then the only *scientifically* appropriate study is socialogical or psychological. Such things are not necessarily valueless, and I didn't say they were. They just aren't scientifically valid. -- J. Giles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!ccsua.ctstateu.edu!parys From: parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu Subject: Give Me A Break! Message-ID: <1993Jan26.145958.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> Lines: 50 Sender: news@cs.yale.edu (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: ccsua.ctstateu.edu Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:59:58 GMT About six months ago this was an interesting newsgroup. Now it consists of science fiction and egos. The possiblility that there could be life on another planet is not one that any of us would view as impossible. That they could travel here and watch us and want to examine us is also not impossible. What is impossible is the amount of bull that someone has to go through to read something on this board that might be pertinent. I'm sure somewhere on this vast network is a newsgroup for science fiction lovers. Why can't that board be utilized instead of this one. And why all the obcenities? I hook onto this board to learn what others may have learned or endured. Why must you fight as if life itself were being threatened? And what could Star Trek, this generation or the last, possibly have to do with the purpose of this group? This is supposed to be about REAL ENCOUNTERS not encounters with a televison set. Is there another news group that I can hook onto that does have something to do with alien life forms and their possible journey here? If so let me know. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!julienas!babbage!cosmos.imag.fr!cosmos!phs From: phs@cassiopee.cosmos (philippe schnoebelen 303v) Subject: mail exchange with aliens Message-ID: Sender: news@imag.fr Nntp-Posting-Host: cassiopee Organization: Institut Imag, Grenoble, France Distribution: alt Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:01:30 GMT Lines: 19 I'm looking for (snail) mail addresses of aliens currently on Earth who are willing to answer letters. I'm already corresponding with Hatton and Kortron & Solinus but would appreciate having more contacts. [Both are great if you're a stamp collector, which I'm not.] Hatton is sometimes scary, but this should be expected considering how may enemies he has. Kortron & Solinus are real nice. I there are enough informative answers, I could be willing to summarize (or put this in a FAQ, or do whatever seems fit. Maybe a "Comprehensive Directory of Aliens on Earth" (or in the States for a start)). [PS: I'm only interested in _aliens_, not devils or gods or ghosts ...] Much thanks in advance, --Philippe Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news!vela!wsu-cs!cms.cc.wayne.edu!EIVERSO From: EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu Subject: Re: Give Me A Break! Message-ID: <16B62ED29.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> Sender: usenet@cs.wayne.edu (Usenet News) Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit MI U.S.A. References: <1993Jan26.145958.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:51:50 GMT Lines: 61 In article <1993Jan26.145958.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes: >About six months ago this was an interesting newsgroup. Now it consists of >science fiction and egos. And complainers like you. Thanks for your 2 cents. >The possiblility that there could be life on another planet is not one that any >of us would view as impossible. Thank you, everyone. >That they could travel here and watch us and want to examine us is also not >impossible. I'd sure love to travel there and examine them, sure. I'll give you that much. >What is impossible is the amount of bull that someone has to go through to read >something on this board that might be pertinent. And you had something pertinent to say? Well? Let's have it! Or were you just posting to test your new .sig like me? >I'm sure somewhere on this vast network is a newsgroup for science fiction >lovers. Why can't that board be utilized instead of this one. Why can't you post to alt.whine if you have nothing pertinent to say? >And why all the obcenities? I hook onto this board to learn what others may >have learned or endured. Why must you fight as if life itself were being >threatened? Life itself *is* being threatened....by me. >And what could Star Trek, this generation or the last, possibly have to do with >the purpose of this group? Nothing, obviously. >This is supposed to be about REAL ENCOUNTERS not encounters with a televison >set. I had an encounter with a television set once. Aliens implanted transistors in my brain, and now the TV talks to me. It tells me what to do and when to do it. I must obey. >Is there another news group that I can hook onto that does have something to do >with alien life forms and their possible journey here? If so let me know. What's wrong with posting here intstead of whining? We're all waiting.... ///\\ --Eric o/o-> _\- /|___ eiverso@cms.cc.wayne.edu / >7__/< \ HUMANS MUST BE DESTROYED / |\ \/ / \ \ DESTROY, DESTROY, DESTROY Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!usenet From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (no one of consequence) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Don't Worry Be Happy. Date: 26 Jan 1993 22:50:58 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX Lines: 22 Message-ID: <1k4f8iINNtn@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dopey.cc.utexas.edu In article asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk writes: ]>-- K. ]>Never shout "Theater!" in ]> fired crowd. ] ]...and never shout "VACUUM!" in ]a crowded space port. ...and never, NEVER shout "FIRE!" at people pointing weapons at you. :):):):):):):):):):):):):) -- /----------------------------------------------------------------------\ |Patrick Chester wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu| |"If the Earth is our Cradle, then why are we still here?" | |Everything your side says is Truth. All else is Propaganda.... | |I only speak for myself. If I *did* speak for UT, would anyone listen?| \----------------------------------------------------------------------/ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!titan!hal!jbm From: jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Message-ID: <1993Jan26.223700.3525@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia References: <1jjrgmINN9dk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> <1jqfpeINN3mq@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1jsbgqINN8c1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:37:00 GMT Lines: 13 Time for a periodical re-airing of my pet theory about crop circles, and this time it is improved! Wheat, after millions of years of natural evolution and thousands of years of selective breeding, has become *sentient*, and is trying to communicate with us. Now for the improvement on the theory (hold onto your hats). Hoaxers have been hypnotized by wheat into making crop circles. Or perhaps they have been bribed... Xref: icaen sci.physics:36374 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2854 sci.skeptic:37436 alt.paranormal:6355 rec.arts.startrek.tech:7710 alt.alien.visitors:12959 alt.magick:8580 alt.pagan:25505 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,rec.arts.startrek.tech,alt.alien.visitors,alt.magick,alt.pagan Subject: Re: New Physics,Healing & Paranormal 2 "White Paper" Message-ID: <106701@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 26 Jan 93 23:44:31 GMT References: Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Followup-To: sci.physics Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article , sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes: > > Continuing part 2 of my paid for "intelligence analysis" on the impact > of New Age Paradigms on the future of medicine, new marketing > strategies, new politics, etc. etc. for a high level consortium based > in Luxembourg,Geneva,London and Paris. Your (unpaid) comments, > criticisms will be included (if of value) in footnotes. I am striving > for a balanced objective presentation. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't think so. You know Jack, you should try to strive for regaining your sanity instead. As for your high-level consortium, I challenge you to give any information on it. I think you're talking BS. JM. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Government coverups Message-ID: Date: 26 Jan 93 15:26:40 GMT References: <1jspk2INN12p@zikzak.apana.org.au> Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 37 Nntp-Posting-Host: wea.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Michael Saleeba (zik@zikzak.apana.org.au) wrote: > billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: > > 1) Something crashed. The Air Force doesn't want us all to know. > > 2) The Air Force STILL doesn't want us to know. (Almost 50 years > > later). > You see this sort of thing again and again, particularly in > alt.alien.visitors - wild claims that the government or some part of > it is trying to cover up information about UFOs. Now there's something > about all this that doesn't ring true for me at all. WHY? I mean, > what's the point? What do they stand to gain by covering it all up? It > must cost them a lot of effort, so they'd have to have a pretty darn > good reason to do it. It's not a question of what they have to _gain_ from a cover-up, rather what they haveto _lose_. If the governments publicly acknowledge the existence of UFOs there would be mass hysteria worldwide. Why? Let me put it this way. People will suddenly realise that all we are are just little specks of dust when considering the universe. We're not very advanced in our space travel or our defenses, so when we hear about UFOs, we usually deduce that the things flying them are very advanced compared to us, therefore have the weaponory to destroy us at the flick of a switch. And, unlike nuclear weapons, we have _no_ defenses against UFOs _whatsoever_. When the public realise this, they will realise that any worry they have is absolutely _nothing_ compared to the UFO threat and so will turn to crime because they'll think "Sod it, the UFOs will get us sooner or later, so I may as well make the most of the time I've got now". In short, they'll turn to anarchy. That's why there is a cover-up. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!hal.com!olivea!pagesat!netsys!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!usenet From: kaypok@next06epsl.wam.umd.edu (Dr. Who) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Any CE groups in Maryland, D.C. or Virginia ? Message-ID: <1993Jan27.015725.9574@wam.umd.edu> Date: 27 Jan 93 01:57:25 GMT Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Followup-To: kaypok@wam.umd.edu Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park Lines: 6 Nntp-Posting-Host: next06epsl.wam.umd.edu I want to contact a group or organization that deals with UFO sightings or close encounters. Does anyone know of one? Better yet one in the Washington D.C. area. Any help would be greatly appreciated Thanks Nathan Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Government coverups Message-ID: <1993Jan27.021714.29460@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1jspk2INN12p@zikzak.apana.org.au> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:17:14 GMT Lines: 38 In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: > >It's not a question of what they have to _gain_ from a cover-up, rather what >they haveto _lose_. If the governments publicly acknowledge the existence of >UFOs there would be mass hysteria worldwide. Actually, what they have to lose is: A) Military dominance and control of the Free World - You don't need a military if everyone loves each other and refuse to kill ANYTHING. As you don't need a military, military leaders lose control of power. B) More important, the powers that be would loose crediblity - over dictating to the the masses what to believe in, and the nature of reality. Because if you can believe in aliens, maybe you can believe in things other than thier power structure. > > Why? Let me put it this way. People will suddenly realise that all we >are are just little specks of dust when considering the universe. We're not >very advanced in our space travel or our defenses, so when we hear about UFOs, >we usually deduce that the things flying them are very advanced compared to us, >therefore have the weaponory to destroy us at the flick of a switch. And, unlike >nuclear weapons, we have _no_ defenses against UFOs _whatsoever_. When the >public realise this, they will realise that any worry they have is absolutely >_nothing_ compared to the UFO threat and so will turn to crime because they'll >think "Sod it, the UFOs will get us sooner or later, so I may as well make the >most of the time I've got now". In short, they'll turn to anarchy. > > That's why there is a cover-up. Exactly... Jeff- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Message-ID: Date: 27 Jan 93 02:48:22 GMT References: Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 57 billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: 2) Next day, Brazel carted stuff and filled up a shed. Called the sheriff. Debris is spread out over a big area. ... Well, I cannot be sure (from my reading) that he "filled up a shed". He did store some stuff (notably a large circular piece.) 3) Sheriff and Brazel call Air Force. Local Air Intellegence Officer comes out. Base commander then releases a press notice : "We have a flying saucer." ... the timing here is important. After interviewing Mac Brazel, Marcell and Captain Cavitt went out to the ranch with Mac Brazel on the 6th. Blanchard sent at least some of stuff Mac Brazel brought in with him to Roswell on to Fort Worth. On the morning of the 7th, Marcel and Cavitt went to the debris field, returning early on the 8th (that is, they spent all day picking up pieces of "a balloon"), and didn't get 'em all. On the morning of the 8th, after a staff meeting, Blanchard dictated his "saucer" press release to the PIO (Walter Haut.) 4) General Twining flies down, takes over. Local base commander takes a "leave" immediately. ... Twining appears only to have arrived in person on the 17th (he's listed in records as having done so.) He may have been at Kirtland Field, near Albuquerque on the 7th. Blanchard went "on leave" on the afternoon of the 8th, to go out to the debris field. (Apparently the "on leave" thing was an administrative sleight of hand, to deflect the phonecalls, etc. pouring into the base.) 5) A B-29 is filled up with crates of stuff, flies off to another base. ... apparently several planes flew out of Roswell, a B-26 (on July 6), a B-29, a some C-54's. They flew to Fort Worth, Wright Field, Washington, and Kirtland field. 6) Twining and ATIC guy cook up balloon story. Allow reporters in the next day to look at balloon remains. ... Ramey (in Fort Worth) is (apparently) the source of the balloon story. Ramey's balloon story went out on July 8th. On the 9th, all the "saucer" press releases given out by Haut were confiscated by officers from Roswell. 8) Air Force still refuses to talk about now. Not even mentioned in Blue Book as a balloon. ...well, they talk about it; they say it was a balloon. It is curious that it doesn't appear in BB, though some other balloon-stories apparently do. Charles Sources "UFO Crash at Roswell", "Roswell, A Historical Perspective". Xref: icaen alt.postmodern:4346 alt.religion.kibology:6030 talk.bizarre:90527 alt.alien.visitors:12964 talk.religion.newage:13722 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!network.ucsd.edu!szechuan.ucsd.edu!spl From: spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.slack,talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE Date: 26 Jan 1993 18:50:07 GMT Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource Lines: 91 Message-ID: <1k4150INNokv@network.ucsd.edu> References: <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: szechuan.ucsd.edu In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >[seen in--of all places--alt.postmodern:] >In article <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: >> Although the following article is on the subject of religious studies, it >>illustrates some important facts about the Universe: >All I have to say to this is that Rev. Ivan Stang, who owns the Church >of the SubGenius, called Eckankar "The Stupidest Cult(TM)". And HE >KNOWS STUPID CULTS! Including kibology? End of article 3630 (of 3630)--what next? [npq] | discord | nroff -ms > plugh Important facts that Initiate of the Psychic Planes. Jan GMT Lines Xref network. Eck Master will take AN IMMEDI- ATE DISLIKE to as out of a physically alive today is simply teaching of the sea shore, a person POSSIBLY sin before a Perfect LIVING Master as SOUL TRAVEL REPLACE blind faith. Rushing wind, and university libraries and other experiences such perfect living in most other if they finally WISE UP! Each of its followers of his cycles of existence in this IMPORTANT Information is the Romans. Lives, which seem to this is DANGEROUS without an INDIVIDUAL experience, now headquartered in John the Astral projection. Etheric Plane, describes several higher Spiritual Planes. Astral Plane, there LESS THAN YEARS AGO by the way God Incarnate. It is possible for Jesus' nd Coming are fol- lowers an extraordinary amount of these Masters with the EXCITING syndicated TV series, alt. Another person POSSIBLY sin before he LIVED BEFORE? Worship Jesus to this IMPORTANT Information is located elsewhere on the EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH by simply teaching of some kind of a rushing wind, homes, unless he LIVED BEFORE? ALL TIMES, including the Universe The River of the upper levels of at the help of a nd COMINGS If a Perfect LIVING Master or SOUND CURRENT mani- fests differently for religious validity. Downtown Boston References Jan25. ONLY correct meaning of a short while and take AN IMMEDIATE DISLIKE to confuse the Mental Plane is five levels of the EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH by little more than GOOD FEELING which seem to this subject is located elsewhere on the process. VERSION. His cycles of God Incarnate PHYSICALLY ALIVE in or other if they finally WISE UP! Radha Soami Books, there are similarly true for religious validity. Each other major levels fnord of ETERNAL DAMNATION in Eckankar, and pray to do for the teachings of REincarnation in of Jesus was mostly MANUFACTURED by Dr. Ing there are PER VERSIONS! Upper part of SOUL PLANE, and is ANOTHER classic books, etc. Will take him during the life experi ences, SMALL WONDER. Planes. Life in the Baptist was. Cnsvax. Saimiri. Start hearing it, Jan GMT Lines Xref network. Living Master God set things up by Dr. HEAVEN, alt. Behave much better toward each Master as out of evidence supporting REincarnation in the upper part of REincarnation in by Ruth Montgomery, NOT including Islam, India, and then his life in the psychic planes are WAITING IN VAIN. Him directly to fnord past life in Revelation, talk. Spiritual Planes are only KIDDING THEMSELVES, etc. ETERNAL DAMNATION in India, which is simply teaching of the subject of existence in the REINCARNATION in John NOTWITH STANDING. Gurinder Singh Ji, and is the psychic read ings of it, NOT unique, higher Spiritual Planes and closely observing the physical world, strong PHOBIAS, some of these forms are only by reaching at the Physical Plane is THE BANI, P. River of the Christian Hell, now living Master or other if they are some kind of a physically dies trans lates before a person is NOTHING that Jesus to return and fnord to have to return and pray to be reaped by Sri Paul Twitchell, P. spl -- Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608 "Tenants of the house, Thoughts of a dry brain in a dry season." - TS Eliot, "Gerontion" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!status!jonc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Philadelphia experiment Message-ID: From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:51:28 GMT References: <20087@mindlink.bc.ca> Organization: The CServer at the Z*NET International Global News Gateway Lines: 26 Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) writes: > There actually is a movie out on the Philadelphia Experiment and some books. > The movie, I'm not sure how much dramatic license is involved, is titled "The > Philadelphia Experiment" and its just a few years old now. More like nearly 10 years and alot of license compared to the book of the same title. However you do raise a good point here Scott. While this is a story most of us in this news.group and in most countries have heard reference to, what has happened since then in this line of study? I would be interested to hear in any current (recent last 20 years) happening in this line of research. A pet topic of discussion here is geo-magnetic propolusion and also terestial magnetic (read gravity) propulsion. Jon Clarke Z*NET Pacific -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= jonc@status.gen.nz GEnie: J.Clarke6 Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD Phone: (+649) 358-5589 IFNA : 3/772:105 GEM : NZM CABLES =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!tdenbo Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Philadelphia experiment Message-ID: From: tdenbo@eis.calstate.edu (Tom Denbo) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:38:57 GMT References: <20087@mindlink.bc.ca> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 12 The movie was quite different from the book. The movie used time travel, the book described distance displacement. I really liked the book! It was so weird that I had to give it a rousing standing cheer at the end! The Phiadelphia Experiment:Project Invisibilty 1979 by William L. Moore with Charles Berlitz Fawcett Crest Books (paper back) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13723 alt.alien.visitors:12967 sci.skeptic:37442 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!pagesat!spssig.spss.com!uchinews!machine!timesink!mikebo From: mikebo@timesink.chi.il.us (Michael Borowiec) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <1993Jan26.071539.12522@timesink.chi.il.us> Date: 26 Jan 93 07:15:39 GMT References: <1993Jan20.231528.25880@newshost.lanl.gov> Organization: HAM Radio Station N9EUZ, Naperville, IL Lines: 23 In article <1993Jan20.231528.25880@newshost.lanl.gov> jlg@sahara.lanl.gov (J. Giles) writes: >In article , serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: >|> [...] >|> Some of the shows really blow me away with the power of their message, as >|> did the first Deep Space Nine episode which dealt with a powerful emotional >|> theme, the nature of time, and a bit tension and drama. [...] > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >That was one of the most comical sequences I've ever encountered. These >alians conduct a discussion with the human character in an ordered sequence >of topics, inferences, etc. and yet claim to be ignorant of the nature of >time. If they can conduct an ordered interview, they know of time. > >-- >J. Giles It was only PRESENTED that way so you, a mere human, could comprehend the purely mental exchange of ideas between the characters in a linear fashion... You are so arrogant in your ignorance! (-8 - Mike PS> By the way... you really backpedaled on the issue "people who view Star Trek regularly are intellectually inferior to my well-read self". Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!icaen.uiowa.edu!acarstea From: acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) Subject: Re: probes Sender: news@news.uiowa.edu (News) Message-ID: <1993Jan27.074448.24712@news.uiowa.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:44:48 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: ihr01.icaen.uiowa.edu Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa In article billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: > > The biggest argument used against UFO's and aliens is that >we are so far from any other planets. We cannot even see other >planets for sure. Of course, we think that all main sequence stars >should have planets. But no proof. > > What if we lived closer to the center of our galaxy? There >would be many stars within a light-year or so. With our current >technology, I'll bet we could see proof of other planets all around. >What is the first thing we do when investigating other bodies? (Planets >I mean :) We send a probe. If we lived amidst many other planets, we >might even detect atmospheres. Any oxygen planet would be of special >interest. > Perhaps the vast majority of UFO sightings are due to unmanned >probes sent out long ago. Any probe finding an oxygen planet (therefore >life as we know it) would send back data. Eventually someone might >come see, probably a stuffy old anthropologist or something. That >explains why we haven't seen them yet. They're shy. > >-- I really do not see any more points in this kind of arguments. To be explicit: Years ago, I thought that this reasoning was ok and proving "sightings" of "spacecrafts" was important. To have a grasp on the thing, I made sure to include some courses like Meteorology or Remote Sensing into my doctoral program. Now I rather study Topology and its connections to physical space. Things like the Philadelphia Experiment are no joke. With all due respect, I wouldn't worry for the density of planets, for travels, for oxygen, and such. Alin Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!icaen.uiowa.edu!acarstea From: acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) Subject: OOB Sender: news@news.uiowa.edu (News) Message-ID: <1993Jan27.095041.25570@news.uiowa.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:50:41 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: ihr01.icaen.uiowa.edu Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa To the person asking for info about OOB's earlier in this newsgroup: There is a group called alt.out-of-body Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: gilly!dave@quack.UB.com (Dave Fischer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE Date: 27 Jan 1993 03:12:04 -0600 Organization: Flat Earth Liberation Front Against TV Lines: 39 Sender: daemon@cs.utexas.edu Message-ID: <9301261903.AA11019.V3.4@gilly.UUCP> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >All I have to say to this is that Rev. Ivan Stang, who owns the Church >of the SubGenius, called Eckankar "The Stupidest Cult(TM)". And HE >KNOWS STUPID CULTS! > -- K. No no no no no. You just have to know how to read it! A little filtering with sed and reformating, and... (1) ONLY LOWEST DOZEN (2) INTERACTIONS HIGHER LEVELS. (3) INDIVIDUALS PERSONALLY , "SOUL TRAVEL". DANGEROUS THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE COMPLETELY IGNORANT NOT 3:16 NOTWITH- STANDING. ALWAYS PHYSICALLY ALIVE AT ALL TIMES, THROUGHOUT HISTORY, PERVERTING THREATS "ETERNAL DAMNATION" DELETED RE NOTHING ANY INITIATED KIDDING THEMSELVES, DUPED MANUFACTURED TOTALLY DECEIVING "AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM" "SOUND CURRENT", "THE WORD" 1:1-5, RE "SOUL PLANE", NOT LIVING (P.O. 27300; 55427). "THE PATH OF THE MASTERS" (R P.O. 242, CA 90247), 1939 "ECKANKAR--THE KEY TO SECRET WORLDS", ANOTHER DEAD CONTINUE RE MISERABLE WISE UP! RE-INCARNATION "HERE AND HEREAFTER", , RE FACT OF LIFE, HYPNOTIC REGRESSIONS SPONTANEOUS RECALL DREAM RECALL - DEJA VU - EDGAR CAYCE, EVEN SUPPORTING STATEMENTS FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE 17:11-13 REINCARNATION 9:1-2 POSSIBLY LIVED BEFORE?! ALWAYS "KING JAMES VERSION". PER-VERSIONS! INTERESTS, TALENTS, PHOBIAS, PAST LIVES. DROWNED PREVIOUS LIFE. AN IMMEDIATE DISLIKE PREVIOUS INCARNATION. RE LAW OF KARMA (G 6:7, 13:10, .). FUTURE INCARNATION! "2 COMINGS" ONE AND ONLY INDIVIDUAL NOT WAITING IN VAIN. PLANES OF EXISTENCE LOWEST AT LEAST DOZEN FIRST TRUE HEAVEN, NOT ESP, 1972 INTERACTIONS SUB-DIVIDED. SMALL LESS THAN 2000 YEARS AGO EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH THREATENING RE SOUND CURRENT BLIND FAITH BLIND FAITH GOOD FEELING TOTALLY DECEIVING). HEARING "SOUND CURRENT" ("THE WORD", "THE BANI", "THE AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM"), REINCARNATION MISERABLE WILL CONTINUE. "SOUND CURRENT" "SOUL TRAVEL" REPLACE UN- REPRODUCTION DISSEMINATION IMPORTANT ENCOURAGED ENJOY LARGE SHARP NEEDLES VARIOUS ORIFICES EXCITING TV "SMALL WONDER". ------------------------ uunet!quack!gilly!dave ------------------------ ================= Dave Fischer - Nature's Perfect Food ================= ---------------------- dave%gilly@quack.sac.ca.us ---------------------- Xref: icaen sci.physics:36403 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2858 sci.skeptic:37445 alt.paranormal:6358 alt.conspiracy:22400 alt.pagan:25521 alt.magick:8587 alt.alien.visitors:12971 rec.arts.startrek.tech:7724 Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.startrek.tech Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!well!sarfatti From: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) Subject: New University - Call for Faculty and Students Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 08:28:00 GMT Lines: 55 Please post to other conferences. Interested parties, faculty and students, forward CV. Degrees will be granted. to : Press Release For More Information, Call: {Glossary "ContactInfo"| (415) 885 5194} For Release {CreateDate \@ "h:mm AM/PM"|5:11 PM}{Glossary "Zone"| ES} {CreateDate \@ "MMMM dd, yyyy"|January 26, 1993} VISIONARY PHYSICIST, DR. JACK SARFATTI, APPOINTED TO SCIENCE BOARD OF WORLD UNIVERSITY Start of Press release ACADEMIE UNIVERSITAIRE LIBRE MONDIALE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WORLD UNIVERSITY The European Community Parliament is looking for an ideology of cultural unity for the twelve countries separated by languages and many other differences. A Scientific Board of top quality scholars coming from both the "Exact Sciences" and "Human and Social Sciences" is now being established by Dr. Paul A. Gerome of Geneva, Switzerland. Dr. Jerome received his Ph.D. under Levi-Straus. He is now in San Francisco speaking to scientists who are potential faculty enroute to Los Angeles, Hawaii and Japan. He will return to San Francisco on Feb 20, 1993. The first official act will be an International Conference using multimedia and telepresence. The recording of the Conference will be broadcast by satellite. The Scientific Board members will define the new hybrid sciences and give them names. The second act will be the creation of a detailed script on multi-media CD ROM of the available knowledge on these cross-border disciplines and a computer programme for students. In addition, a document will be produced to define the further researches to be realised under the direction of each hybrid scientist who will be receiving grants. These grants will be used to create more television programs and interactive computer programs and to broadcast the information on these hybrid sciences worldwide through satellite channels. More information will be forwarded through E-Mail, Internet and Fax to whomever contacts us and applies. We are a private non-profit organisation settled in Paris. The operational company is settled in Luxembourg. The video-audio-book publishing company is settled in Geneva. The Headquarters are in London. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13724 alt.alien.visitors:12972 alt.religion.kibology:6039 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!sparkyfs.erg.sri.com!csl.sri.com!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Gremlin. Message-ID: <74433@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 18:37:31 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I do declare I think my computer has a Gremlin in it. I'd better go to Art Martin and get it kicked out. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13725 alt.alien.visitors:12973 sci.skeptic:37447 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!sparkyfs.erg.sri.com!csl.sri.com!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: How To Contact Good Type UFO. Message-ID: <74435@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 19:41:19 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 45 Subject: How To Contact The Good Space People. People are always asking how to make sure that you are going to contact the good type of space people and not be invited to come to lunch. One of the best ways is to learn how to send and receive telepathic messages. When you finally learn how to do this then you can look at the space craft of space person and bring that information or picture that you see with you eye, into your third eye (pineal gland) and then bring the information down into you stomach near your belly buttom and let it roll around a little. As it is rolling around get a feel for it and figure out whether it gives you a good feeling or a bad feeling. A woman would call it her woman's intuition. A man would call it a gut feeling. If you don't get a good feeling, don't fool around with that sort of space person. You may already know that I think very highly of Edgar Cayce. Here is some information about him;....A mysterious blue crystal helped one of the world's greatest psychics make amazingly accurate predictions - and it can give you the same eerie power! Edgar Cayce, an early 20th century seer who forecast the Great Depression, both world wars and the fall of communism in Russia, use a magical stone called lapic lazuli before he went into his trances, and author reveals. And you can pick up one of these power-packed stones at a crystal shop at a reasonable price - lapis lazuli goes for a mere $4 an once, says parapsychologist Brad Steiger. "To achieve this enhancement of psychic awareness, the crystal can be worn as a ring, pendant, earring, bracelet, ankle or even as a stone on a belt," Steiger explains. "Lapic lazuli helps an individual tune into psychic vibrations that surround all of us." Cayce, who earned the title of America's Sleeping Prophet, once confided that his psychic abilities were enhanced by the stone, which is composed of the minerals calcite, pyrite and lazulite. He also felt it helped him diagnose physical ailments, even before they appeared, allowing him to recommend effective ways to halt the problem in the tracks. "Some were modern folk cures, others were treatments from past epochs and ancient cultures, such as Greece and Rome," Steiger says. "Many were later discovered by the formal medical community to be effective therapies." Cayce attracted as much attention for his methods as he did for his prophecies. "For his readings, he'd enter a self-induced hypnotic trance while holding a handfull of lapi luzuli crystals," Steiger says. "He claimed he tapped into a Universal Mind for his information. Dr. Franklin Ruehl. JW So there you have it folks. There's more to come on this later. Stay tuned. Source of Information:January 26, 1993 Examiner. page 4. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Give Me A Break! Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:44:09 GMT References: <1993Jan26.145958.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 63 In article <1993Jan26.145958.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes: >About six months ago this was an interesting newsgroup. Now it consists of >science fiction and egos. This has NEVER been an interesting newsgroup! All it consist of are people making wild, unsubstantiated claims about UFO's, alien abductions, and government conspiracies to hide alien contact, and other people like me damanding *decent evidence* for this stuff rather than speculation. And never getting such evidence. >The possiblility that there could be life on another planet is not one that any >of us would view as impossible. > >That they could travel here and watch us and want to examine us is also not >impossible. It's not impossible that someone has built a 120 story skyscraper in the middle of an Iowa cornfield. It's not impossible that my mother had 8 children (my father had 8 children). It's not impossible that I could be wearing grey dress slacks right now. Many things are not impossible. But this is no indication whatsoever that they are true. >And what could Star Trek, this generation or the last, possibly have to do with >the purpose of this group? Beats me. The STNG debates got crossposted to sci.skeptic, too. On both newsgroups I had also made comments and raised issues MUCH more relevant to the stated purpose of the newsgroup and got almost no responses, whereas I got LOTS of reaction to the TV comments. >This is supposed to be about REAL ENCOUNTERS not encounters with a televison >set. I think a lot of people who watch a lot of TV can't tell the difference. They think if they saw something on TV or heard a CNN reporter say it was true, it must be! _TV Guide_, of all places, had an article about a year ago on how the televised testimony of some Kuwaiti refugees just before the Gulf War in 1991 was a major factor in whipping up war frenzy, and building up sympathy for Kuwait in the US. Only problem was that the tretimony, according to the magazine, was a fabrication. I can't vouch for whether it really was a fabrication, but I certainly have seen MANY things on network news that were either factually wrong or deliberate lies (take your pick). And several studies have found that frequent TV viewers are more likely to perceive the world as a dangerous place and have an exaggerated sense of the likelihood of themselves being a crime victim than non-TV-viewers. So I'm not sure that frequent TV watchers DO have the powers of discrimination you ask for. I think if they saw a news report about UFO abductions or something they WOULD think that UFO abductions were real. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:47:44 GMT References: <1jqfpeINN3mq@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1jsbgqINN8c1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <1993Jan26.223700.3525@trl.oz.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 18 In article <1993Jan26.223700.3525@trl.oz.au> jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) writes: >Time for a periodical re-airing of my pet theory about >crop circles, and this time it is improved! > >Wheat, after millions of years of natural evolution and >thousands of years of selective breeding, has become >*sentient*, and is trying to communicate with us. On the other hand (this is true:) in late 1991 the Wheat Foods Council, an industry trade group, reported a study showing that 47% of Americans believe oatmeal is made from wheat! ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Government coverups Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:54:57 GMT References: <1jspk2INN12p@zikzak.apana.org.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 45 In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >Michael Saleeba (zik@zikzak.apana.org.au) wrote: >> billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: > >> > 1) Something crashed. The Air Force doesn't want us all to know. >> > 2) The Air Force STILL doesn't want us to know. (Almost 50 years >> > later). > >> You see this sort of thing again and again, particularly in >> alt.alien.visitors - wild claims that the government or some part of >> it is trying to cover up information about UFOs. Now there's something > >It's not a question of what they have to _gain_ from a cover-up, rather what >they haveto _lose_. If the governments publicly acknowledge the existence of >UFOs there would be mass hysteria worldwide. > > Why? Let me put it this way. People will suddenly realise that all we >are are just little specks of dust when considering the universe. We're not >very advanced in our space travel or our defenses, so when we hear about UFOs, >we usually deduce that the things flying them are very advanced compared to us, >therefore have the weaponory to destroy us at the flick of a switch. Oh, ca-ca!! The vast majority of the world's population are religionists of one sort or another so they have ALREADY come to terms with the idea of beings in the universe VASTLY more powerful that us, and nearly incomprehensible in their motives and actions (God, or various gods). > And, unlike >nuclear weapons, we have _no_ defenses against UFOs _whatsoever_. More ca-ca. Since when do we have defenses against nuclear weapons? Get real - if there's a major nuclear war you and I both toast. Anyway, your comments are still mere speculation. You have provided not one shred of evidence for your views. ---peter Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12977 talk.religion.newage:13726 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!udel!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!decwrl!pa.dec.com!oct17.dfe.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE Message-ID: <1993Jan27.144652.896@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> Date: 27 JAN 93 09:40:48 Lines: 20 In article , kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes... >[seen in--of all places--alt.postmodern:] >In article <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: >> . >> . >> . >> Robert E. McElwaine >> 2nd Initiate in Eckankar > >All I have to say to this is that Rev. Ivan Stang, who owns the Church >of the SubGenius, called Eckankar "The Stupidest Cult(TM)". And HE >KNOWS STUPID CULTS! I have some small reason to believe that mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu is no more than someone's AI project. Try sending mail and see what happens. All I got was more random mailings of over-capitalized drivel. Yo, "McElwaine", anything to say to disprove this? -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!decwrl!pa.dec.com!oct17.dfe.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <1993Jan27.145633.1263@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1993Jan20.070944.23587@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> <1993Jan25.074044.4189@news.unomaha.edu> <1993Jan26.030255.631@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: 27 JAN 93 09:50:25 Lines: 15 In article <1993Jan26.030255.631@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes... >graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >Ok, so you don't like the manned idea. How about, the balloon is carrying >particulate collectors to look for fallout from US or Soviet Nuclear tests. >You post a reward so people will turn in the "disks" rather than keep them. >Rob U Folks, all of these schemes make a big assumption: that the people reporting non-human bodies were basically making it up. This goes for the ranchers who discovered it, the rock-collectors in the area, the mortician with the "smallest available caskets", the military personnel who lifted the tarp and looked under, the medical personnel who handled the bodies. We have to assume they all lied in order to buy any of the Earthly-origin scenarios. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Xref: icaen sci.physics:36421 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2865 sci.skeptic:37460 alt.paranormal:6364 alt.conspiracy:22417 alt.pagan:25533 alt.magick:8592 alt.alien.visitors:12979 rec.arts.startrek.tech:7734 Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.startrek.tech Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) Subject: Re: New University - Call for Faculty and Students Message-ID: <1993Jan27.103223@IASTATE.EDU> Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) Organization: Iowa State University References: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:32:23 GMT Lines: 4 Degree mill ad capslock? Dan Danwell@IASTATE.EDU Xref: icaen sci.physics:36427 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2869 sci.skeptic:37466 alt.paranormal:6369 alt.conspiracy:22418 alt.pagan:25535 alt.magick:8593 alt.alien.visitors:12980 rec.arts.startrek.tech:7737 Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.startrek.tech Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!concert!rock!taco!ppawels From: ppawels@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL PAWELSKI) Subject: Re: New University - Call for Faculty and Students Message-ID: <1993Jan27.144851.28057@ncsu.edu> Originator: ppawels@c00083-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: ppawels@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL PAWELSKI) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos References: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:48:51 GMT Lines: 41 In article , sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes: > VISIONARY PHYSICIST, DR. JACK SARFATTI, APPOINTED TO SCIENCE BOARD OF WORLD > UNIVERSITY > Start of Press release > ACADEMIE UNIVERSITAIRE LIBRE MONDIALE > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > WORLD UNIVERSITY > {stuff out} > > A Scientific Board of top quality scholars coming from both the "Exact > Sciences" and "Human and Social Sciences" is now being established by Dr. > Paul A. Gerome of Geneva, Switzerland. Dr. Jerome received his Ph.D. under > Levi-Straus. > {stuff out} > > The first official act will be an International Conference using multimedia > and telepresence. The recording of the Conference will be broadcast by > satellite. The Scientific Board members will define the new hybrid sciences > and give them names. The misnaming of fields of study is so common as to lead to what might be general systems laws. For example, Frank Harary once suggested the law that any field that had the word "science" in its name was guaranteed thereby not to be a science. He would cite as examples Military Science, Library Science, Political Science, Homemaking Science, Social Science, and Computer Science. Discuss the generality of this law, and possible reasons for its predictive power. -- Gerald Weinberg, "An Introduction to General Systems Thinking." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Colorful, Jack, be careful though, too many of us have too limited of a sense of humor: excessive play on this thread may cause people to ignore your thoughts on other threads. Paul Pawelski Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12981 alt.magick:8595 alt.pagan:25538 alt.paranormal:6370 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2870 rec.arts.startrek.tech:7738 sci.physics:36429 sci.skeptic:37467 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.magick,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,rec.arts.startrek.tech,sci.physics,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!hubcap!ncrcae!elcaro1.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM!mahesh From: mahesh@elcaro1.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM Subject: Re: New Physics,Healing & Paranormal 2 "White Paper" Message-ID: <1993Jan27.101732.17265@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> Nntp-Posting-Host: elcaro1.columbiasc.ncr.com Organization: TeleTherapies,Inc. References: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:17:32 GMT Lines: 41 In article , sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes: |> |> Continuing part 2 of my paid for "intelligence analysis" on the impact |> of New Age Paradigms on the future of medicine, new marketing |> strategies, new politics, etc. etc. for a high level consortium based |> in Luxembourg,Geneva,London and Paris. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You forgot Deep Space Nine. ( And a few wormholes, probably!) Your (unpaid) comments, ^^^^^^^^ I have been paid (in future, effect precedes the cause) by a transluminal consortium based in "East of the NorthTimeBank" to make time-space-money-continuum corrections to these futuristic, historical and timely revelations of yours. |> criticisms will be included (if of value) in footnotes. I am striving |> for a balanced objective presentation. I think, since long you haven't taken a ride on Future SpaceWays. This publication of yours was banned by Federation of United Planets way back in 1800BC. And BTW, their headquarters is changed. It is in Bahamas now. You are holding an illegal position. |> |> The behavior of tiny spinning electrically charged particles, mainly |> electrons and protons (i.e. hydrogen bonds), fundamental to the quantum ..... .. stuff deleted... ..... |> thermal equilibrium, break the unitarity barrier of standard quantum |> mechanics by some new principle not yet understood. Sorry for above comments of mine!! I didn't know that this is your latest in the series of articles written for leading Comics Magazine of the Future, namely - "Advanced Infants Entertainments." ______________________________________________________________________________ (Disclaimer: All the views expressed are exclusively mine. They don't bear any responsibility to my organization.) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13727 alt.alien.visitors:12982 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!sparkyfs.erg.sri.com!csl.sri.com!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <74447@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 06:47:35 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: I have a great deal of respect to Moses. I think he was one of the good guys if there ever was one. I also like Charleston Heston pretty well too. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13728 alt.alien.visitors:12983 sci.skeptic:37468 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!sparkyfs.erg.sri.com!csl.sri.com!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: How To Contact The Good Type Space People. Message-ID: <74446@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 06:33:32 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 10 Dear Folks: At the present time I am conducting some ESP experiments with a few people. I would like to have each person contacting me to have a piece of Lapis Lazuli to consentrate their thoughts with. If you can't get a piece of it please contact me by E-mail and I'll send you a piece of it. Last night I had a dream or Astral Journey about going aboard an Astral Taxi constructed by the space people. Some of you may have been there with me. We had our favorite meals and were taught for quite a while and a good time was had by all. John Winston. Who is this person All? He seems to always have a good time? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Government coverups Message-ID: <1993Jan27.184336.16756@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1jspk2INN12p@zikzak.apana.org.au> <1993Jan27.021714.29460@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:43:36 GMT Lines: 50 In article <1993Jan27.021714.29460@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >> >>It's not a question of what they have to _gain_ from a cover-up, rather what >>they haveto _lose_. If the governments publicly acknowledge the existence of >>UFOs there would be mass hysteria worldwide. > >Actually, what they have to lose is: > >A) Military dominance and control of the Free World - You don't need a military >if everyone loves each other and refuse to kill ANYTHING. As you don't need >a military, military leaders lose control of power. Maybe it's just me, but this seems a bit simplistic. >B) More important, the powers that be would loose crediblity - over dictating >to the the masses what to believe in, and the nature of reality. >Because if you can believe in aliens, maybe you can believe in things other >than thier power structure. So then you are saying that UFOs are a threat to established religion? (and their power structures) >> Why? Let me put it this way. People will suddenly realise that all we >>are are just little specks of dust when considering the universe. We're not >>very advanced in our space travel or our defenses, so when we hear about UFOs, >>we usually deduce that the things flying them are very advanced compared to us, >>therefore have the weaponory to destroy us at the flick of a switch. And, unlike >>nuclear weapons, we have _no_ defenses against UFOs _whatsoever_. When the >>public realise this, they will realise that any worry they have is absolutely >>_nothing_ compared to the UFO threat and so will turn to crime because they'll >>think "Sod it, the UFOs will get us sooner or later, so I may as well make the >>most of the time I've got now". In short, they'll turn to anarchy. >> >> That's why there is a cover-up. > >Exactly... Technically, I am not sure the statement "we have _no_ defenses against UFOs _whatsoever_" is meaningful. Is a misidentified balloon really a threat to all? Perhaps it would be better to substitute -alien spaceship- for UFO. >Jeff- Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle Message-ID: <1993Jan27.194755.24004@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:45:41 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Jan26.223700.3525@trl.oz.au>, jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) writes... >Time for a periodical re-airing of my pet theory about >crop circles, and this time it is improved! > >Wheat, after millions of years of natural evolution and >thousands of years of selective breeding, has become >*sentient*, and is trying to communicate with us. > >Now for the improvement on the theory (hold onto your hats). > >Hoaxers have been hypnotized by wheat into making crop >circles. Or perhaps they have been bribed... > > That's the best theory I've heard so far... :-) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Give Me A Break! Message-ID: <1993Jan26.225207.8064@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 26 Jan 93 22:52:07 GMT References: <1993Jan26.145958.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson Lines: 45 In article <1993Jan26.145958.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes: >About six months ago this was an interesting newsgroup. Now it consists of >science fiction and egos. > >The possiblility that there could be life on another planet is not one that any >of us would view as impossible. Oh, of course not impossible. I would consider it pretty likely, as a matter of fact. > >That they could travel here and watch us and want to examine us is also not >impossible. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. Really highly unlikely. Really _really_ highly unlikely. Well, you get the idea. > >What is impossible is the amount of bull that someone has to go through to read >something on this board that might be pertinent. > Yeah! There's all this UFO idiocy cluttering up the group! >I'm sure somewhere on this vast network is a newsgroup for science fiction >lovers. Why can't that board be utilized instead of this one. > This newsgroup _is_ for science fiction. See the name: alt.alien.visitors Now if that isn't obvious fiction, I don't know what is.... > > >This is supposed to be about REAL ENCOUNTERS not encounters with a televison >set. > Are you saying that television isn't real? It sure is real! I'm looking at one right now, on the other side of the room. People see televisions every day! There's a rational explanation for televisions! Televisions are understandable, and they leave physical evidence of their existence. Televisions are real. Aliens are not real. Simple enough. -- ****************************************************************************** "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats."---------H. L. Mencken Jason D. "corleyj@gas.uug.arizona.edu" Corley Claims Full Responsibility Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!news.service.uci.edu!ttinews!avatar!sorgatz From: sorgatz@avatar.tti.com (sorgatz) Subject: Re: Government coverups Message-ID: <1993Jan27.200505.22025@ttinews.tti.com> Sender: usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: avatar.tti.com Organization: Citicorp TTI References: <1993Jan27.021714.29460@netcom.com> <1993Jan27.184336.16756@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:05:05 GMT Lines: 47 In article <1993Jan27.184336.16756@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >>> Why? Let me put it this way. People will suddenly realise that all we >>>are are just little specks of dust when considering the universe. We're not >>>very advanced in our space travel or our defenses, so when we hear about UFOs, > >Technically, I am not sure the statement "we have _no_ defenses against UFOs >_whatsoever_" is meaningful. Is a misidentified balloon really a threat to >all? Perhaps it would be better to substitute -alien spaceship- for UFO. > The real issue is one of CONTROL. As it is government is losing control, the populace is beginning resent being treated as government-wealth slaughter! Should it become know that Planet Earth is just a dinky back-world, and that the zero-sum game here is a hoax, there would be a few billion people here screaming for blood...namely the blood of those in government that have kept us toiling away at the drivel of ordinary life while secret technology could have freed us 50 years ago...think about it. If this is the case, the truth may NEVER come out! ;-( It may very well be for such reasons that the whole issue is shunned by the military, look at their stake in this silly game: Control of the population via the tools of war. Total control. But what if, And it is a what-if situation, there exists technology that can provide limitless energy at a fraction of the cost of our current systems? A new medical technology that can render death obsolete? Food production means that could feed 10x our population? And the list never stops! What if..? One very likely outcome of such a scenario is that people would simply stop going to work, stop going to school (as we now know it..) stop paying their TAXES?!! (Oh Dear!) Stop taking advice from assholes like Jerry Fallwell and Co....Oh my GHOD! People might even begin to think FOR THEMSELVES! ...I can see it now: EBE: "....but we gave the technology to your governments 50 years ago? You mean they..? EARTHMAN: "Yep..the bastards just SAT ON IT! That's why we had to kill them all and start over! Politicians are a worthless lot you know..." -Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY +-------------------------+ TTI(sorgatz@soldev.tti.com) * Think Eco, not EGO! * 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 +-------------------------+ (OPINIONS EXPRESSED DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF CITICORP OR ITS MANAGEMENT!) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!ucla-cs!ucla-se!mott.seas.ucla.edu!mitch From: mitch@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <9238@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 27 Jan 93 18:51:39 GMT References: <1993Jan20.100852.10600@ntb.ch> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: Setec Astronomy Lines: 28 In article <1993Jan20.100852.10600@ntb.ch> milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: > > Roswell. > >In my video, the debunkers say that it was a "radar corner reflector". Given the huge areas of New Mexico reserved for military installations (look at a map sometime), the most plausible explanation for anything strange seen in that region is "black project". However, in the Roswell case, I'm reluctant to accept this explanation simply because it took the "recovery team" two days to get to the site. If this were a US project gone awry, they'd have known about it before the local boys. I think that it is safe to conclude that whatever happened at Roswell was unexpected and the military was caught by surprise. That in itself would be sufficient motivation for the subsequent cover-up, even if whatever really happened was quite mundane. On a different topic, could someone post a summary of the Bennewitz Affair? I may have some comments and questions once I see the dates and players involved. -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!ucla-cs!ucla-se!mott.seas.ucla.edu!mitch From: mitch@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony Message-ID: <9240@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 27 Jan 93 19:20:24 GMT References: <1993Jan20.193526.8581@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1993Jan21.150347.8162@udel.edu> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: Setec Astronomy Lines: 36 In article <1993Jan21.150347.8162@udel.edu> mm@brl.mil writes: >In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) >writes: >|> Really big secrets have a way of getting out and NOTHING IN HUMAN HISTORY >|> would be bigger than aliens at an Air Force or Army base. > >I agree. To study an extraterrestrial vehicle or crew would require a >large and diverse group of scientists and engineers. It's very unlikely >that these would all be military sympathizers to the extent that they >would seal this off from the world. Someone would tell his wife or best >friend or let it slip on his death bed, etc. > This isn't intended as a flame, but it seems to me that something is flawed in your reasoning here. I think this is a Circular Argument or something: Somebody claims that X happened. Someone else says, "Don't be ridiculous. If X had happened, somebody would be _saying_ that X happened. X is _too big_ to be kept secret." Doesn't the Roswell case contain a sort of "deathbed confession" by one of the players who claims to be too old now to care about threats of reprisals? (BTW, whatever happened to ol' Gluteus Maximus? We haven't seen any kneejerk reactions from Mr. Shaeffer for some time now. I hope he didn't get Abducted!) :-) -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13733 alt.alien.visitors:12990 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: Don Allen X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: <2B64F77D.5EA0@tct.com> Message-ID: <1993Jan26.151357.7754@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:13:57 GMT Lines: 17 Chip Salzenberg (chip@tct.com) wrote: : The fact remains that you publicly posted that the Protocols were, and : I quote, ``DAMN specific'' about who were the people responsible for : various and sundry bad things in the world. That statement could only : come from a person who considered the Protocols to be real. I thought that "Protocols" was long ago proven to be a fantasy cooked up by the Nazis to justify mistreatment of Jews before and during WWII - or has this dead horse surfaced yet again? I've deleted Don's manic rantings, as they weren't adding anything to the discussion. -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "It is your resistance to 'what is' that causes your suffering." -- Buddha Xref: icaen alt.postmodern:4355 alt.religion.kibology:6055 talk.bizarre:90627 alt.alien.visitors:12991 talk.religion.newage:13735 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gatech!asuvax!chnews!vulcan!sstrazdu From: sstrazdu@vulcan.intel.com (Stephen Strazdus) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.slack,talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:29:52 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1k79e0INNsl4@chnews.intel.com> References: <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vulcan.intel.com In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >[seen in--of all places--alt.postmodern:] >In article <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: >> THREATENING manner. The Christian "Heaven" is located >> elsewhere on the Astral Plane. Good Christians will go there >> for a short while and then REincarnate back to Earth. I hope this isn't right. Just last week I forked over $1,999,999.99 to reserve my next incarnation. I chose Relgzig IV in the galaxy UGC 1324. I had to fork over an extra megabuck to choose the time. I chose a date approximately 12,345,678.90 years ago. I wish I would have seen this sooner. Then again, I'm probably not a good Christian anyway. -- Steve Strazdus sstrazdu@sedona.intel.com 80960 Design (602) 554-3867 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13736 alt.alien.visitors:12992 sci.skeptic:37500 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!asuvax!ncar!vexcel!copper!aspen.craycos.com!jrbd From: jrbd@craycos.com (James Davies) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Paranormal Message-ID: <1993Jan27.235905.11456@craycos.com> Date: 27 Jan 93 23:59:05 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <74195@cup.portal.com> Organization: Cray Computer Corporation Lines: 10 In article <74195@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > There are many things that still have never been explained and people just >continue to sweep them under the rug. One of them is spontaneous human >combustion. If you ever figure out what causes that one let me know. The book "The Fringes of Reason" has a pretty good chapter on spontaneous combustion. The basic conclusion was (body fat) + (cloth) + (spark) = (candle), i.e. a dead person with a lit cigarette lying on a rug would keep smoldering until all of their body fat was consumed, so that when they were discovered later there would just be a pile of ashes on a burnt carpet. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13737 alt.alien.visitors:12993 sci.skeptic:37502 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!mmm.serc.3m.com!pwcs!medtron!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: Paranormal Message-ID: <1993Jan26.172713.20674@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:27:13 GMT Lines: 40 mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: : jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) writes in part: : |> In article <74195@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: : |> |> [...] : |> |> There are many things that still have never been explained and people just : |> |> continue to sweep them under the rug. [...] : |> |> [...] One of them is spontaneous human : |> |> combustion. If you ever figure out what causes that one let me know. A considerable amount of investigation has been done (I think there was a resulting show on the BBC). They couldn't find a single "spontaneous" case. The fires were caused by cigarettes, heaters, candles, etc. The same things that cause other household fires. : |> You can't study something whose very existence : |> you can't even verify. : : Well, actually folklorists do it all the time. Well, not really. They can and do verify the existence of the legends being studied. They occasionally try to trace a particular legend to an actual incident, but the stories themselves are what's being studied. It doesn't matter much whether the stories are true or not, or even if the subjects believe the stories. What's interesting is the way the legends travel and evolve/adapt to cultural changes. : And the analogy is HIGHLY relevant: folk beliefs and stories have : meanings, purposes, and existance that has nothing at all to do with : claims of "scientific" or "rational" existence. There are people who study paranormal beliefs (as opposed to the supposed phenomena). While acknowledging that there is no factual basis for astrology, you can do some interesting work on why people want it to work and why they think it does work. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! Uh-oh!! I'm having TOO Rosemount Inc. |MUCH FUN!! | grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet From: petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Life on Mars {was Re: The Cursor Speaks Out! } Date: 28 Jan 1993 01:07:14 GMT Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia Lines: 37 Message-ID: <1k7bk2INN8j2@zikzak.apana.org.au> References: <1jn5jpINNdvh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan24.184626.27457@netcom.com> <1jv4saINN66r@ub.d.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN In article <1jv4saINN66r@ub.d.umn.edu>, rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) says: > >Mars can support life (alabeit simple, combon dioxide breathing). NASA >officially lists life on Mars as 'inconclusive'. I believe this is due >to a researcher who found bacteria living in antartica. The tests carried out on board the Viking for metabolism, growth, photosynthesis were done by three seperate experiments, gas exchange, labeled release and pyrolytic release. Results:An unpredictably high level of oxygen was released when the samples were sitmulated by sunlight or water, but not if the sample was sterilized. One possible reason for this release of oxygen was that plants were present and undergoing photosynthesis. Another possible answer was that a purely inorganic chemical reaction was taking place. Neither of these possibilities could be proven or disproven conclusively, leaving open the question of life on Mars. Source for the above: p160/161 The Encyclopedia of US Spacecraft by Bill Yenne The researcher in Antartica was Dr Wolf {spelling?}, he spent 20 years building the wolf trap. The wolf trap was a device which was suppose to be fitted to the Viking landers, but because of last minute budget cutbacks, it was left out. Basically the experiment involved adding some soil to some nutrient rich mixture and then detecing if anything would grow. because of the Viking kickback, he decided to try his device in Antartica, with success. Source for the above paragraph: Carl Sagan's Cosmos series. Carl Sagan beleived that the wolf trap would have resolved the question of life on Mars {ie in the area of the other tests} Peter T. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!wellison From: wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: John Winston meets Phil Klass Message-ID: <1993Jan27.124630.46789@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: 27 Jan 93 12:46:26 CST Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Lines: 10 Perhaps Mr. Winston's problem is that he came in contact with one of Mr. Phil Klass's plasma balls that had run amuck. Hence, one 5,000 degree plasma ball + trajectory down Mr. Winston's shorts = one strange skeptic ! John Winston has the right to say what he wants, however, he should keep it out of this news group. Maybe put it in alt.science.fiction or something. This used to be an informitive group to the Ufoloigist and those just interested, but now it's sci-fi and flames. Oh well. Chalk one up for disinformation..... -=-= Wes =-=- Xref: icaen sci.physics:36472 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2888 sci.skeptic:37505 alt.paranormal:6381 alt.conspiracy:22446 alt.pagan:25578 alt.magick:8609 alt.alien.visitors:12996 rec.arts.startrek.tech:7766 Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.startrek.tech Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!newsserver.technet.sg!nuscc!matmcinn From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (brett mcinnes) Subject: Re: New University - Call for Faculty and Students Message-ID: <1993Jan28.023550.10196@nuscc.nus.sg> Organization: National University of Singapore X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: <1993Jan27.144851.28057@ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:35:50 GMT Lines: 7 ppawels@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL PAWELSKI) writes: : : Colorful, Jack, be careful though, too many of us have too limited of a sense : of humor: excessive play on this thread may cause people to ignore your : thoughts on other threads. : Xref: icaen alt.postmodern:4356 alt.religion.kibology:6058 talk.bizarre:90647 alt.alien.visitors:12997 talk.religion.newage:13738 Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.slack,talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!titan!trlluna!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!monu6!yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au!sloth From: sloth@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Bulhak) Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE Message-ID: <1993Jan28.021259.11142@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.slack,talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage Sender: news@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Usenet system) Organization: The Horrible Sleeping Church X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] References: <1k4150INNokv@network.ucsd.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:12:59 GMT Lines: 77 Steve Lamont (spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu) wrote: : Jan GMT Lines Xref network. Eck Master will take AN IMMEDI- : ATE DISLIKE to as out of a physically alive today is simply : teaching of the sea shore, a person POSSIBLY sin before a : Perfect LIVING Master as SOUL TRAVEL REPLACE blind faith. : Rushing wind, and university libraries and other experiences : such perfect living in most other if they finally WISE UP! : Each of its followers of his cycles of existence in : this IMPORTANT Information is the Romans. Lives, which seem : to this is DANGEROUS without an INDIVIDUAL experience, now : headquartered in John the Astral projection. Etheric Plane, : describes several higher Spiritual Planes. : Astral Plane, there LESS THAN YEARS AGO by the way God : Incarnate. It is possible for Jesus' nd Coming are fol- : lowers an extraordinary amount of these Masters with the : EXCITING syndicated TV series, alt. Another person POSSIBLY : sin before he LIVED BEFORE? Worship Jesus to this IMPORTANT : Information is located elsewhere on the EARLY CATHOLIC : CHURCH by simply teaching of some kind of a rushing wind, : homes, unless he LIVED BEFORE? ALL TIMES, including the : Universe The River of the upper levels of at the help of a : nd COMINGS If a Perfect LIVING Master or SOUND CURRENT mani- : fests differently for religious validity. : Downtown Boston References Jan25. ONLY correct meaning : of a short while and take AN IMMEDIATE DISLIKE to confuse : the Mental Plane is five levels of the EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH : by little more than GOOD FEELING which seem to this subject : is located elsewhere on the process. VERSION. His cycles : of God Incarnate PHYSICALLY ALIVE in or other if they : finally WISE UP! Radha Soami Books, there are similarly : true for religious validity. : Each other major levels fnord of ETERNAL DAMNATION in : Eckankar, and pray to do for the teachings of REincarnation : in of Jesus was mostly MANUFACTURED by Dr. Ing there are : PER VERSIONS! Upper part of SOUL PLANE, and is ANOTHER : classic books, etc. Will take him during the life experi : ences, SMALL WONDER. : Planes. Life in the Baptist was. Cnsvax. Saimiri. : Start hearing it, Jan GMT Lines Xref network. Living : Master God set things up by Dr. : HEAVEN, alt. Behave much better toward each Master as : out of evidence supporting REincarnation in the upper part : of REincarnation in by Ruth Montgomery, NOT including Islam, : India, and then his life in the psychic planes are WAITING : IN VAIN. Him directly to fnord past life in Revelation, : talk. : Spiritual Planes are only KIDDING THEMSELVES, etc. : ETERNAL DAMNATION in India, which is simply teaching of the : subject of existence in the REINCARNATION in John NOTWITH : STANDING. Gurinder Singh Ji, and is the psychic read ings : of it, NOT unique, higher Spiritual Planes and closely : observing the physical world, strong PHOBIAS, some of these : forms are only by reaching at the Physical Plane is THE : BANI, P. River of the Christian Hell, now living Master or : other if they are some kind of a physically dies trans lates : before a person is NOTHING that Jesus to return and fnord to : have to return and pray to be reaped by Sri Paul Twitchell, : P. Yeah. Now if SOMEBODY wrote a working DRIEUXISER, that would LookEvenBetter. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andrew Bulhak | "Shakespeare as much as Brutus plotted | | sloth@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au | Julius Caesar's death." | | Monash Uni, Clayton, | - de Selby, Golden Hours | | Victoria, Australia | | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!gateway From: Adrian.Jenkin@f873.n800.z3.fidonet.org (Adrian Jenkin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: beliefs Message-ID: <728207572.AA03496@csource.oz.au> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:27:00 Sender: gateway@csource.oz.au Lines: 19 In a message dated 17 Jan 93 03:52:16, mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu wrote: M> 6) there are many other life-bearing planets in our galaxy M> (Drake equation) M> ... well, now, hold on. The Drake equation: M> N = R * fp * n * f1 * fi * fc * L A very fascinating equation and one which ties closely into my interests in Aliens. Could you tell me where I might find out about this Drake equation? Later Mate, Adrian * Origin: The Deep Woods BBS (08) 287-2224 (3:800/873) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!gateway From: Adrian.Jenkin@f873.n800.z3.fidonet.org (Adrian Jenkin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Message-ID: <728207572.AA03497@csource.oz.au> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:59:00 Sender: gateway@csource.oz.au Lines: 24 In a message dated 19 Jan 93 22:17:24, beede@sctc.com wrote: >People who say that they dont watch tv at all are idiots. B> This is a new tack in this old argument. In fact, it gives me B> inspiration for a few more: B> People that can read are illiterate! B> Math professors can't count! B> People that don't eat raw rats are not gourmets! Your way of saying that this has been reduced to bickering? If that is so I quite agree. Later Mate, Adrian * Origin: The Deep Woods BBS (08) 287-2224 (3:800/873)